orggrwr said:

Hey freebird, one thing i noticed you might want to consider is a mulch to keep the top layer of your supersoil moist. Living soil requires a more even moisture level without the drastic dry back of regular soil grows. This is especially important when you use flowering top dresses later, those microbes need moisture to do their thing. I use rice hulls but some people use a living mulch of clover. ( believe @Gmix has a thread on it) The hulls also help with fungus gnats as they can't burrow through it to get to the soil. Rice hulls are also an excellent soil amendment. They help with drainage and aeration much like perlite and when they break down after a couple of grows they are a good source of silica. I use a lot of hulls so I buy the big bags that I can fit in. This bag cost around 80 bucks but will last me a year or more. And any hulls that were used as mulch and don't get mixed into the soil at reamend go into the compost pile. View attachment 2634923View attachment 2634924View attachment 2634925

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OMG What great information! Info like this is true gold! How am I ever going to thank you folks enough! Read a little about covering after nematodes (coming soon) and my mosquito bites. Figuring all this out now, and later. But how right on track and timely!

freebird919 said:

OMG What great information! Info like this is true gold! How am I ever going to thank you folks enough! Read a little about covering after nematodes (coming soon) and my mosquito bites. Figuring all this out now, and later. But how right on track and timely!

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One point. Mulch will need to be removed for top dressing of dry nutrients and reinstalled. Pour nutes can be organic and do not require this step.
I actually scrape up a couple of cups and mix dry init but I do not cover mine. My soil choices have enough wood chips for sure LOL

JIMKSI64 said:

Have you found a par map for that light? I have a 400 watt unit and with 18-6 for autos I did 7 in tent just fine.
Well the lights were fine. The nutrition profile not so much

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400 watts, 1280 BTU, 18.5” X 8.5”X4” could be chained w/another from same controller. Wanted big grows, yes. But mainly room for things, movement and wife’s vegetable starting. 18/6 and 780 @ canopy light meter. I’m really just beginning to understand.

JIMKSI64 said:

Ok excellent start.
Here is what I see.
You have a very broad range of plants from sativa leaner to indica leaning .
And it looks to me like you are treating them all the same with the lights.
Stretch in seedling and veg as long as nutes and environment are spot on is mostly light driven. With so many plants you will need to find the stretcher plants and move them up to get more power from the light and the ones that are squatty and all secondary node spouting need slightly weaker light to CAUSE a stretch response.
A monocrop of all one seed type may not have stopped this either. Seeds are a genetic lottery and you can see way different presentations in even the same seed run.
Here a kicker. Sometimes you may want/need to kick some creepy stretchy girl out of the tent as you can not get enough light on it to stop it.
Sometimes you just have to cull a plant that is light averse. I am sure you have seen them they look like a lettuce plant they are so stacked. If you need to run plants more than 15% different lights settings you will be one frazzled dude moving plants around and raising/lowering plants.
Now I know a lot of these are for outdoor so you are not culling any so baseline your lights. ( Test tool ppdf/write down power and hight) and then start moving plants up and down until you get a bunch of plants that are not curling up and not stretching for the roof
Living soil is great. Living soil should have a nice growing biome and should be done based on a recipe that has proven success.
I grow all organic and after 4 harvested but ugly weed grows I am following a strict add schedule that is doing soooo much better.

The one thing for nutrition I can recommend is use a product that understands the difference between plant, potted, indoor and indoor cannabis grow.
If the nutrition choice has a historical show me the weed fan base and recipe or a cannabis grow schedule like mine.
https://drearth.com/wp-content/uploads/Feeding-Schedule.pdf

It took me 4 grows to find that file and for 1 of the runs I actually was doing Dr earth wrong and it was ugly.

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Woah! Hope everybody sees this info! Big time thank you!

JIMKSI64 said:

One point. Mulch will need to be removed for top dressing of dry nutrients and reinstalled. Pour nutes can be organic and do not require this step.
I actually scrape up a couple of cups and mix dry init but I do not cover mine. My soil choices have enough wood chips for sure LOL

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The method i use for top dressing after rice hulls are on is to suck up the hulls with a small shop vac. I have a 1 gallon vac that pretty much only gets used for that purpose to keep it clean. Just gently suck them up being careful not to get the nozzle to close and disturbing the roots that will be growing on the surface under the mulch. Then apply the top dress and reapply the much. You'll get a little soil mixed in the rice hulls but it works well.

I seen you posted about training.
I have a tutorial I made for a grower.

Start by setting up your plan to train. You can set up a squat look where you drag the stems sideways and are looking for very little climb in the hight you just keep spreading the plant out until you are close to how wide you want the plant. Most folks use a scrog net for this.
.I do not train this way not because I don't like it but I have physical limitations that stop me from doing so. I have to be able to remove the plants for service as bending over for more that a minute or 2 is painfully.
Here is mine and I have pretty much standardized my system.
Allow the plant to grow natural but always be in the lookout for stretchy plants or really squat plants. You will have to learn to control stretch and cause stretch. We have addressed that.
Allow plant to grow to the 5th node.
Look at the plant and fine the dominance fan leaf. This will be the leaf with the most fingers. It is normally not the biggest one. Most leafs 7 or 9 is expected.
.now cut it off 1/4 inch from the stem. Wack it.
This causes a response to slow roll on fan leafs and start throwing more nodes. Like a lot of nodes.
After another node is built we will start opening up the plant by first ensuring that we pull the stem runs directly out from the plant. Just lasso and lay them down.
Then we are going to set up what is called a counter pull. That is where you decide what direction you are going to pull your main stem and lasso your stem and pull the wire through your pot edge and tighten slowly until all of the slack is out of the stem. Do not wrap the stem with loops and tighten them. Do not use a slip not that will tighten on its own. Loop the stem where it is loose around it but where it will not choke the stem as it grows. This is a critical point as is the stem gets messed up it can let on pathogens.
Now that the stem is counter pulled you can lasso the stem tops and pull that stem in the direction you want.

You can see the plant looks lopsided as I am starting to pull sideways. Continue daily in coaxing the plant to move sideways.

You can see that the plant has an opening in the middle now. That's where all the new nodes are going to come out and make new stems with new tops.
At this point it is just maintain the stem runs outward, always outwards. Do not let you side stems climb you want the running out from the plant

As you can see the plant is spreading out but not up. This allows more light penetration.
Now when the plant has grown to near the size you are going to want ( a few node stems should be past the age of the pot ) you will stop pulling and allow the lassoed stems to turn up.
This part is very experience based. Either by running the plant or researching the plant it is called playing the stretch. When we initiate flower we cause a huge growth called stretch. You will need to know if your plant has a double single or triple stretch. The more stretch the more the plant will grow up. But doing so unregulated is not good. You are trying for a 14 inch bud run. The reason we choose 14 is any lower and you will not get good flower growth down lower as the light will not be strong enough.

The side view shows the side stems arcing up from the main stems. This will be the foundation of the bud runs.

Here is an internal shot. The small flowers are growing. You can see the main stem comes out of the dirt and moves right. Follow it up and you can see where it was topped and the stem goes 2 directions. I have already installed stem booster ( knex ) to steer the stems
Daily training. Balancing lights as you slowly allow the bud runs to climb

You can see the stems are climbing and sprouting growth

Plant is about as tall as you are going to get it now we need to train for a flat canopy. This will include using green wire to pull some stems out and down and some will be boosted up into the light.
Filling in nicely.
13 inch bud run

At this point train for level canopy and balance the lights.
Yesterday.

Now here's another difference. I always plant more beans so I can cull a plant that is not the type I want. These 2 plants are the same strain. The small one is what I wanted not the big girl. Again I train not for yield I train so I can move the plants in and out to work on.
The plants are 5 inches apart hight wise and the lights are 9000 lux different. This is a pain to move lights up and down and the plant up and down to balance it but it's gunna be worth it.
First successful grow white widow 7 oz bud 2 oz trim.


Tricome pic

Varius trained pictures


Untopped sky jacker.

Sidelights. Stupid way to grow a plant. 240 watts on one plant but it was fun and I will never do that again.

JIMKSI64 said:

I seen you posted about training.
I have a tutorial I made for a grower.

Start by setting up your plan to train. You can set up a squat look where you drag the stems sideways and are looking for very little climb in the hight you just keep spreading the plant out until you are close to how wide you want the plant. Most folks use a scrog net for this.
.I do not train this way not because I don't like it but I have physical limitations that stop me from doing so. I have to be able to remove the plants for service as bending over for more that a minute or 2 is painfully.
Here is mine and I have pretty much standardized my system.
Allow the plant to grow natural but always be in the lookout for stretchy plants or really squat plants. You will have to learn to control stretch and cause stretch. We have addressed that.
Allow plant to grow to the 5th node.
Look at the plant and fine the dominance fan leaf. This will be the leaf with the most fingers. It is normally not the biggest one. Most leafs 7 or 9 is expected.
.now cut it off 1/4 inch from the stem. Wack it.
This causes a response to slow roll on fan leafs and start throwing more nodes. Like a lot of nodes.
After another node is built we will start opening up the plant by first ensuring that we pull the stem runs directly out from the plant. Just lasso and lay them down.
Then we are going to set up what is called a counter pull. That is where you decide what direction you are going to pull your main stem and lasso your stem and pull the wire through your pot edge and tighten slowly until all of the slack is out of the stem. Do not wrap the stem with loops and tighten them. Do not use a slip not that will tighten on its own. Loop the stem where it is loose around it but where it will not choke the stem as it grows. This is a critical point as is the stem gets messed up it can let on pathogens.
Now that the stem is counter pulled you can lasso the stem tops and pull that stem in the direction you want.
View attachment 2635570
You can see the plant looks lopsided as I am starting to pull sideways. Continue daily in coaxing the plant to move sideways.
View attachment 2635571
You can see that the plant has an opening in the middle now. That's where all the new nodes are going to come out and make new stems with new tops.
At this point it is just maintain the stem runs outward, always outwards. Do not let you side stems climb you want the running out from the plant
View attachment 2635572
As you can see the plant is spreading out but not up. This allows more light penetration.
Now when the plant has grown to near the size you are going to want ( a few node stems should be past the age of the pot ) you will stop pulling and allow the lassoed stems to turn up.
This part is very experience based. Either by running the plant or researching the plant it is called playing the stretch. When we initiate flower we cause a huge growth called stretch. You will need to know if your plant has a double single or triple stretch. The more stretch the more the plant will grow up. But doing so unregulated is not good. You are trying for a 14 inch bud run. The reason we choose 14 is any lower and you will not get good flower growth down lower as the light will not be strong enough.
View attachment 2635576
The side view shows the side stems arcing up from the main stems. This will be the foundation of the bud runs.
View attachment 2635578
Here is an internal shot. The small flowers are growing. You can see the main stem comes out of the dirt and moves right. Follow it up and you can see where it was topped and the stem goes 2 directions. I have already installed stem booster ( knex ) to steer the stems
Daily training. Balancing lights as you slowly allow the bud runs to climb
View attachment 2635581View attachment 2635579
You can see the stems are climbing and sprouting growth
View attachment 2635583
Plant is about as tall as you are going to get it now we need to train for a flat canopy. This will include using green wire to pull some stems out and down and some will be boosted up into the light.
Filling in nicely.
13 inch bud run
View attachment 2635584
At this point train for level canopy and balance the lights.
Yesterday.
View attachment 2635585
Now here's another difference. I always plant more beans so I can cull a plant that is not the type I want. These 2 plants are the same strain. The small one is what I wanted not the big girl. Again I train not for yield I train so I can move the plants in and out to work on.
The plants are 5 inches apart hight wise and the lights are 9000 lux different. This is a pain to move lights up and down and the plant up and down to balance it but it's gunna be worth it.
First successful grow white widow 7 oz bud 2 oz trim.
View attachment 2635586
View attachment 2635587
Tricome pic

Varius trained pictures
View attachment 2635593View attachment 2635595View attachment 2635596

Untopped sky jacker.
View attachment 2635609
Sidelights. Stupid way to grow a plant. 240 watts on one plant but it was fun and I will never do that again.

Click to expand...

Wondering what you thought of pics. Look good? Leave or return to normal. Last ones I do this year.

freebird919 said:

Wondering what you thought of pics. Look good? Leave or return to normal. Last ones I do this year.

Click to expand...

They look ok. Remember the lights. Some of your plants need more light or they will be very stretchy and no long runs.
It will take a while to learn this. My first run needed a top trellis to hold the buds up due to stretchy plants.

JIMKSI64 said:

They look ok. Remember the lights. Some of your plants need more light or they will be very stretchy and no long runs.
It will take a while to learn this. My first run needed a top trellis to hold the buds up due to stretchy plants.
View attachment 2635643

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Was thinking seriously about that netting. Light: doors were open during pics as finishing inside tent LST. I’m very pleased that I did ok with this. All the reading indicates much better yield. So, thank you again. You calm my nerves!

JIMKSI64 said:

They look ok. Remember the lights. Some of your plants need more light or they will be very stretchy and no long runs.
It will take a while to learn this. My first run needed a top trellis to hold the buds up due to stretchy plants.
View attachment 2635643

Click to expand...

New: Vivosun 8” AeroZesh T exhaust pro set up this early afternoon. Pics incl w/plants. Learning about VPD but no matter, no humidifier or dehumidifier. Mosquito Bits, sticky pads and nematodes here.

JIMKSI64 said:

It sounds like you have a perfect HVAC answer with one question. Can you set it up on its own register with thermostat? I have to manually close registers in the basement but it's 4 levers so not big.
Like last night. I have the room blocked and all the registers for day and then open the room up or it will drop to 64 degrees without the heater. By opening just the room vent I get 3 degrees from the house and only need sporadic heat from the thermoforge.
It was a heavy frost last night. Scrambling at 7pm to lay tarps over strawberries and new plantings.

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I think with all this automation I can see what’s needed. But who knows. Checking and learning day by day! Here’s pics of new Vivosun AeroZesh T 8” pro exhaust w/controller? installed today & pics. Anything and all comments on anything else of interest or just to talk. I’m all ears/eyes!

I placed all of my duct fans on top of the tents for light clearance.
A duct fan is not a lot of heat but 20-100 watts is still heat to deal with.
Plants look nice.

JIMKSI64 said:

I placed all of my duct fans on top of the tents for light clearance.
A duct fan is not a lot of heat but 20-100 watts is still heat to deal with.
Plants look nice.
View attachment 2636497View attachment 2636498

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What a great idea ! Lot less messing around! Wait, filtration & circulation? My system requires much circulation. Explanation: filtration and sucking from the inside with HVAC, or outside cool air, inserting into tent providing fresh airflow and some lower humidity. Not sure. Thank you!

freebird919 said:

What a great idea ! Lot less messing around! Wait, filtration & circulation? My system requires much circulation. Explanation: filtration and sucking from the inside with HVAC, or outside cool air, inserting into tent providing fresh airflow and some lower humidity. Not sure. Thank you!

Click to expand...

You can have positive pressure or negative pressure. Duct pushing in or out. Biggest difference is smell control and a slight increase in efficiency from pushing rather than pulling and pushing. With positive pressure no tent will not leak I done care how much you spend. Sucking and running past a carbon filter keeps smells down.
Until you open the tent LOL

orggrwr said:

Hey freebird, one thing i noticed you might want to consider is a mulch to keep the top layer of your supersoil moist. Living soil requires a more even moisture level without the drastic dry back of regular soil grows. This is especially important when you use flowering top dresses later, those microbes need moisture to do their thing. I use rice hulls but some people use a living mulch of clover. ( believe @Gmix has a thread on it) The hulls also help with fungus gnats as they can't burrow through it to get to the soil. Rice hulls are also an excellent soil amendment. They help with drainage and aeration much like perlite and when they break down after a couple of grows they are a good source of silica. I use a lot of hulls so I buy the big bags that I can fit in. This bag cost around 80 bucks but will last me a year or more. And any hulls that were used as mulch and don't get mixed into the soil at reamend go into the compost pile. View attachment 2634923View attachment 2634924View attachment 2634925

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Just bought a bunch of pea gravel but I think your method sounds more to my “compost” ideal. What say you of the gravel?

JIMKSI64 said:

You can have positive pressure or negative pressure. Duct pushing in or out. Biggest difference is smell control and a slight increase in efficiency from pushing rather than pulling and pushing. With positive pressure no tent will not leak I done care how much you spend. Sucking and running past a carbon filter keeps smells down.
Until you open the tent LOL

Click to expand...

Well spending is something I’m adverse to. Never thought I’d be where I am with that. Neighbors, VA weather and lack of knowledge of this plant are reasons why but really, I think I’m on track! Serious learning curve and more now with new exhaust and settings. Better get off this and read & view vids.
Thanks for your friendship!