Electrical question about sub panel

here are the pics I figured out a way to post

Sorry I know they are small pics but my software for Mondo is out of date so that is the only way I can upload them right now unless someone can pm me their email addy and post them for me? If not Ill post once I get home. Thanks again

Dont call it 4 wire, though there are four wires you dont count the ground, so 12-2 romex wire is a black, white and a bare copper, 12-3 romex is a black, red , white, bare copper.
If you have a black, white, bare copper you are able to power up 240v equipment(with no neutral) but 120v will not work there.
Or you can make it a 120v line and install any 120v equipment into it but then no 240v will be there.
hiboy

When the box was initially installed it had a black, a red, a bare and a white. I disconnected them and used a wire with black white and bare ground. I need 120v for both breakers in the box. SO should I get a new piece of Romex with black, red, bare and white?

If so How do I hook that type of romex up? the bare and white on the ground bar of the main and the sub panel? Also are you able to see the pics?

Ok i blew up your pic and i think i got it. YOu have your black and white in the right pic going to the main lugs of the panel. Those are two legs of 120v
(240v) coming from your double breaker in the left pic. You havent brought over a neutral, though its a white wire its used as a 120v line. Your romex going out of the panel, out of your square D breakers i think its the 10-2 romex orange wire is your lines going to your gfi outlets. Your white wires in that orange wire should go to the neutral buss,, located on teh side of the panel, the strip thing. THen you run a another wire from that panel to your 50 amp 2 pole breaker panel and add it to the identical buss.
hiboy

ok. so to clarify. All That I need to do I run a single white wire through the conduit, between the neutral buss of each box then I am good to go? Or is there something I need to do between the box on the right and the gfi outlets? Thanks again.

Oh, I reread your post and you are saying that the white wire from the gfi should be connected to the bus bar of the box on the right? And only one black wire attached to the 20 amp breaker?

Yes exactly,
Each breaker screw can handle 1 wire, so 4 for you. Each are capable of 20 amps each wire, but we maintain that 80% rule for safety.
something else, in a sub panel the ground and the neutral is suppose to be isolated, so that metal horiz mounted bar on the right pic looks like a neutral buss but the ground is going into it. Ideally you would buy a ground buss bar similiar to the existing one in there, attach it to the inside of the panel and then land all your grounds wires into it.
Your blacks coming out of your 20 amp breakers, the loads, are fine to be in there. But the whites need to go to the neutral buss with your new neutral line installed.
hiboy

TO be clean you can relocate the whitre wire u ran and reinstall it in the neutral buss at both end, as white is the color for neutral and then run a black to replace that relocated white wire

ok so to recap, I need to:

1) Run a neutral from the main buss bar to the sub panel buss bar.

2) attach an additional ground bar to the sub panel box

3) attach the white wires coming from the orange romex(gfis) to the bus bar on the sub panel

4) Attach all bare wires to the ground bar on the sub panel

5) don't get electrocuted in the process.


Did I miss anything?

Ya perfect.
On the #3 the orange romex wires (white) to the neutral buss, not the ground buss. You prob got that one but all looks good.
Positive note is you can kill the 50 amp breaker and work dead at the other end.
hiboy

awesome thanks again for all your help! I was ready to go ape shit crazy if I busted another knuckle or got shocked again tring to figure this out. Note to self: Do not attempt to attach wires in a powered breaker box while holding a screwdriver in your hand. Haha thanks again man!

As a electrical tech you gotta start from the top or ?
What is the end use of the branch circuit you are installing?

if it is a inductive ballast, the digital type, DO NOT USE THE NEUTRAL, white wire, or unbalanced current conductor. The Bare copper or ground is used instead! This is stated in the manufactures spec atleast Lumateks. If its just for a resistive motor type load then bringing the nuet and the bare ground would satisfy the NEC.
Residential feeds are 22O volts that is fed from a center tapped transformer outside. 2 120 volts feeder lines equal 220-240volts of potential (think psi). Your amperage think of gallon per minute. And for the Nuetral and Ground wires think safety and waste or unused electricity must go some where. The nuetral does it safely if you touched a old 3 wire range and the ground water source youll be shocked. The NEC changed that mandating 4 wire connections after 1996. So the ranges chassis is connected to the ground and the neutral is used only as the waste line or the unbalanced current carrying conductor.
I wish i could look more into the problem being a electrical teacher. I enjoy helping folks out with these problems. IM new to the farm so hope some of the info helped if not ill check back later. With more details. ANd get a volt tick tester that lights red when volts are detected and a multi meter those plug in testers are good only for quik GFI fault testing

iscrog4food said:

awesome thanks again for all your help! I was ready to go ape shit crazy if I busted another knuckle or got shocked again tring to figure this out. Note to self: Do not attempt to attach wires in a powered breaker box while holding a screwdriver in your hand. Haha thanks again man!

Click to expand...

You bet,
work safe and slow with electrical, especially hot stuff.
good luck
hiboy