1st Time Beginner Phenohunting SeedJunky Cake Crashers

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derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
Background
Decided on a whim to jump right back into growing since I missed the hobby. It's been about two years since my last few failed attempts caused by powdery mildew (1st time due to a malfunctioning humidifier) and by nutrient lockout. My last few attempts were on a 2x4 grow tent using FFOF soil + FF Nutrient Trio and I've been reading that soil is only advantageous for organic growing, which I'm not interested in any longer as I noticed a very pronounced difference in growth speed when using the nutrient trio vs going full organic with just compost teas, so I've decided to go for a full hydroponic ebb-and-flow system using Coco Coir as my growing medium.

I purchased the following for my grow setup
Covert 405CFM Exhaust Kit
Gorilla 5x5 Grow Tent
Gavita 1700e LED
Gavita LED Controller
Gavita EL1 Controller
FastFit 4x4 Tray Stand
Botanicare 4x4 Flood Tray
12x 1 Gallon Smart Pots
Coco Coir
2x Gorilla Gear Boards
1x Hurricane Super 8 16" Fan
1x Hurricane 12" Oscillating fan
Botanicare EBB&FLOW Fitting kit with 2 extensions

This all cost a pretty penny but I just want to make sure I have proper equipment going forward since the seeds I'm working with were pretty expensive ($550 from Supreme Seed Bank).

Where I'm At
I just finished a 24 hour soak on the seeds in RO water until I could see them slightly opening exposing the white tap root inside. After that I transplanted into rockwool cubes that were soaked in water PHed to 6.0 before moving the cubes into my Seed Sprouter. They are currently sitting in the sprouter on top of a heat mat with my hygrometer/thermometer reading 77F and fluctuating between 70-80% RH. I'm leaving the lights on for 24 hours until they sprout and until my grow timer comes in from Amazon, once that happens I plan on running it 18/6. I'm technically on day 3 of the germination phase currently, with day 1-2 being the 24 hour seedling soak and day 2-3 (now) being in rockwool and the supersprouter. I'm anxious about the whole


Hard Lessons Learned
I'm not sure if I'm crazy for full sending it on such a big equipment + expensive gear purchase having failed a few organic grow setups but I feel confident that I learned some pretty valuable lessons from my previous attempts
1) Keep adequate active ventilation with no stale air pockets (I had no oscillating fans at all in my previous grow attempts as I never bothered figuring out how to mount the static fans, a problem that I've solved with my Gorilla Gear Boards).
2) Test runoff PH/PPM as well as inbound PPM of the water. Before I would just put nutrients into the water and then PH it, without measuring EC or PPM, which worked until I had nutrient burn issues. I kept feeding more nutrients because the symptoms looked similar to the ones I saw when the FFOF ran out of nutrients around week 4 of veg, so I just upped my nutrients entering a very terrible cycle until the plants died.
3) Keep humidity down low and actually deploy a dehumidifier / Do not let runoff just sit there and evaporate
- I had huge humidity problems as I would water the plants and let the runoff just sit there in the tent and get stale, making the humidity climb up all the way to 80% at some times during the veg stage. To make things worse the runoff would be full of nutrients which the plants would just sit and soak in causing them to get fucked with nutrient issues and also PM issues. I really don't know what I was thinking.

Anyways I would love to hear what you guys think of my plan and what I'm currently doing and here is a picture of my babies in rockwool right now. Here's hoping that I don't ruin $550 worth of seeds lol
 
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lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
1,320
163
good luck, and might i add a rather impertinent comment? you sound like a person who is going for bigger and faster, often that doesnt quite meld with cannabis farming. im wondering if that desire didnt contribute to the fails?

i see it a lot since i started reading about all this. a certain mentality for "big stuff fast" gets involved a lot and it just doesnt seem to go well. your statement that soil is only good for organic tells me you are just wanting to get through the trip to the destination and cannabis farming is the TRIP, the journey itself... or at least it seems that way for the success stories.
 
derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
good luck, and might i add a rather impertinent comment? you sound like a person who is going for bigger and faster, often that doesnt quite meld with cannabis farming. im wondering if that desire didnt contribute to the fails?

i see it a lot since i started reading about all this. a certain mentality for "big stuff fast" gets involved a lot and it just doesnt seem to go well. your statement that soil is only good for organic tells me you are just wanting to get through the trip to the destination and cannabis farming is the TRIP, the journey itself... or at least it seems that way for the success stories.
You're not wrong when you say I'm going for bigger and faster but I think it's kind of a bold statement to say that I don't really care much for the trip. Maybe you're a fan of organic and disagree with that statement and I completely respect it and would like to hear what your opinions are in using soil with synthetic ferts. Personally speaking, am I wrong in saying that soil only has its advantages when it comes to organic growing? Because wouldn't it make sense to just use a medium like rockwool or coco when not growing organically due to better root aeration and nutrient uptake? Because to my knowledge isn't soil better at sustaining microbial life that would be killed by any pH up/pH down or synthetic nutes, thus rendering its advantages useless?
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
1,320
163
no fan of anything, it is not the style, it is the dismissive method of saying it. as though fast/big is good (which it may be at times), but that all other is bad because it is not faster or bigger. more is not always, as a matter of fact is seldom, better. enough is perfect.

as for organic and soil and hydro, i can see differences, benefits and drawbacks in them all. i have no allegiance to any.

when you speak of soil it is in the view that if you cant add your stuff to make it faster or bigger it is no good to you. but soil too has its place. it is said that for terps and quality, it cant be beat. so is faster and bigger something you could sacrifice for better and stronger? just a philosophical question.

it would all depend on your definition of organic wouldnt it? soil is used in many grow styles. there are many types and many features of each. the second one adds a nutrient that is not in the original soil it is just a medium to grow in. some soil is indeed buffered, but some is not, so it would not be bothered by ph changing additives. soil can and is often used here as just a holder for the roots while people like yourself add their fast and big products.

i think you meant living soil, or no till, or water only or super soil, so many names you could find one to use to clarify. but soil is used lots with your bigger and faster chemicals.

again, my comment was impertinent but had nothing to do with the method or soil or anything like that, it is attitude and language. sorry if it offends, i suppose i should keep these things to myself!
 
Whiskydrunk420

Whiskydrunk420

79
18
Background
Decided on a whim to jump right back into growing since I missed the hobby. It's been about two years since my last few failed attempts caused by powdery mildew (1st time due to a malfunctioning humidifier) and by nutrient lockout. My last few attempts were on a 2x4 grow tent using FFOF soil + FF Nutrient Trio and I've been reading that soil is only advantageous for organic growing, which I'm not interested in any longer as I noticed a very pronounced difference in growth speed when using the nutrient trio vs going full organic with just compost teas, so I've decided to go for a full hydroponic ebb-and-flow system using Coco Coir as my growing medium.

I purchased the following for my grow setup
Covert 405CFM Exhaust Kit
Gorilla 5x5 Grow Tent
Gavita 1700e LED
Gavita LED Controller
Gavita EL1 Controller
FastFit 4x4 Tray Stand
Botanicare 4x4 Flood Tray
12x 1 Gallon Smart Pots
Coco Coir
2x Gorilla Gear Boards
1x Hurricane Super 8 16" Fan
1x Hurricane 12" Oscillating fan
Botanicare EBB&FLOW Fitting kit with 2 extensions

This all cost a pretty penny but I just want to make sure I have proper equipment going forward since the seeds I'm working with were pretty expensive ($550 from Supreme Seed Bank).

Where I'm At
I just finished a 24 hour soak on the seeds in RO water until I could see them slightly opening exposing the white tap root inside. After that I transplanted into rockwool cubes that were soaked in water PHed to 6.0 before moving the cubes into my Seed Sprouter. They are currently sitting in the sprouter on top of a heat mat with my hygrometer/thermometer reading 77F and fluctuating between 70-80% RH. I'm leaving the lights on for 24 hours until they sprout and until my grow timer comes in from Amazon, once that happens I plan on running it 18/6. I'm technically on day 3 of the germination phase currently, with day 1-2 being the 24 hour seedling soak and day 2-3 (now) being in rockwool and the supersprouter. I'm anxious about the whole


Hard Lessons Learned
I'm not sure if I'm crazy for full sending it on such a big equipment + expensive gear purchase having failed a few organic grow setups but I feel confident that I learned some pretty valuable lessons from my previous attempts
1) Keep adequate active ventilation with no stale air pockets (I had no oscillating fans at all in my previous grow attempts as I never bothered figuring out how to mount the static fans, a problem that I've solved with my Gorilla Gear Boards).
2) Test runoff PH/PPM as well as inbound PPM of the water. Before I would just put nutrients into the water and then PH it, without measuring EC or PPM, which worked until I had nutrient burn issues. I kept feeding more nutrients because the symptoms looked similar to the ones I saw when the FFOF ran out of nutrients around week 4 of veg, so I just upped my nutrients entering a very terrible cycle until the plants died.
3) Keep humidity down low and actually deploy a dehumidifier / Do not let runoff just sit there and evaporate
- I had huge humidity problems as I would water the plants and let the runoff just sit there in the tent and get stale, making the humidity climb up all the way to 80% at some times during the veg stage. To make things worse the runoff would be full of nutrients which the plants would just sit and soak in causing them to get fucked with nutrient issues and also PM issues. I really don't know what I was thinking.

Anyways I would love to hear what you guys think of my plan and what I'm currently doing and here is a picture of my babies in rockwool right now. Here's hoping that I don't ruin $550 worth of seeds lol
Godamn Sounds like you got about 5000$ invested already . Good luck man hope it goes well for you
 
Treecutter

Treecutter

90
33
Success is built on failure. I would suggest toss a couple seeds in soil and run the rest in hydro.
Diversified may give you a better chance of some success.
Either way, first grows are not easy. I still run across strains that just like weird amounts of certain supplements than others.

On new strains that I haven't grown or from a copy strain from a different breader, I don't go all in on the first grow.

Drop a few of them and figure them out before I go all In.

As far as organic or not, thats an argument that never ends. There are organic nutrients that cater to hydro also.

I've grown both hydro and soil, organic and chem. Benefits of all of these is dependent upon the growers schedule and capabilities.

Soil mixes we use now in organic are composed of materials that partially mimic hydro. 25 years ago options were limited and unless you knew a seasoned grower, you were SOL with sub par homegrown rag weed. Hydro was the key at that point.

My best advice for you going hydro:
Monitor Monitor monitor.
Stockpile RO water and be prepared to flush the system when there is a screw up.
Buy extra chemicals for when you have to flush the system.

Have fun with the grow.
 
Backyard_Boogie

Backyard_Boogie

497
93
Personally I use soil exclusively but I will often add various fertilizers along the way. During later half of flowering when I turn the lights to max thats usually when the heavy feeding regiment kicks in unless Im doing a living soil run. You can absolutely use fertilizers and boosters with soil the only thing is if you are trying to do living soil the fert will kill the bacteria and fungi. I prefer using soil because it is WAY more forgiving than all the other mediums. Hydro and CoCo grow huge beautiful flowers but the reason why I don't run them is because they are very unforgiving and if you get busy at work or neglect them a little bit you can have bad results. Also if you overdo anything you will also have bad results. I know a lot of people who have tried to get too technical with the playbook and ruined their grows. Yes, if you are a top tier grower and trying for a cannabis cup then sure you can get deep into products. Based upon what you have stated and how you are just getting back into the hobby I would recommend that you try to take more simple tried and true methods instead. I can grow crazy fat beautiful plants with simple cheap products from home depot. When you get too technical with fancy overpriced products and miracle claims its a slippery slope. I make all my own soil and I also have a composter so I can create my own diy black organic gold that is full of microbial life. My first run with my homemade soil I will exclusively be organic because it is living soil. I will put a heavier concentration of compost and Mycorrhizal fungi in that first run so that the nitrates and microbes are nice and hot. I exclusively water my plants with the water from my fresh water aquariums so it has small amounts of nitrates in it but its not much at all. I don't even PH down either like I should, my water is hard from the cichlid tanks but it still grows great plants. First run with dirt I only water with aquarium water the entire grow. This is to prevent killing the microbes. I add more compost top dressing if I want to nitrate boost during flower. Once Im finished with first run I will recycle the soil. Break up the root balls and put them in trash cans on the side of my house. When I reuse that soil again I will add a bit more perlite and also manure to freshen it up a bit. On this second run of recycled soil it will naturally have less nutrients in it therefore I will add fertilizers and boosters on this run. At the very end of the second recycled run its done and I trash it. Salts and calciums build up and I don't want to recycle it any more. This is a tried and true way I have found to get the most out of my soils and it helps me save money. Everything I use is pretty basic and most can be found at Home Depot or your garden supply store. I will take the Pepsi grow challenge with other growers any day. Just because the products are hyped up in magazines and have huge marketing budgets it doesn't mean they are worth their weight. All of the plants you see below are grown with these simple products...

Soil Mix - All from Home Depot:
1/3 Peat Moss
1/3 Steer Manure
1/3 Perlite

Homemade Composter: Filled with kitchen scraps and turned once a week to speed decay. Added to the mix above to boost microbes.

Other Additives:
- Dried Powdered Mycorrhizal fungi (Boosts microbe life)
- Azomite (Adds essential minerals)
- Granulated water soluble Bloom Booster (salt based or organic both work personal preference - Don't use with mycorrhizal fungi only for recycled soil)
- Liquid Cal-Mag additive

Every plant seen below was grown with ONLY the products above. The video is my current indoor grow using recycled soil on its SECOND run. Boosters added.


IMG_2689.PNG

IMG_2634.JPG

IMG_2730.JPG
 
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derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
Success is built on failure. I would suggest toss a couple seeds in soil and run the rest in hydro.
Diversified may give you a better chance of some success.
Either way, first grows are not easy. I still run across strains that just like weird amounts of certain supplements than others.

On new strains that I haven't grown or from a copy strain from a different breader, I don't go all in on the first grow.

Drop a few of them and figure them out before I go all In.

As far as organic or not, thats an argument that never ends. There are organic nutrients that cater to hydro also.

I've grown both hydro and soil, organic and chem. Benefits of all of these is dependent upon the growers schedule and capabilities.

Soil mixes we use now in organic are composed of materials that partially mimic hydro. 25 years ago options were limited and unless you knew a seasoned grower, you were SOL with sub par homegrown rag weed. Hydro was the key at that point.

My best advice for you going hydro:
Monitor Monitor monitor.
Stockpile RO water and be prepared to flush the system when there is a screw up.
Buy extra chemicals for when you have to flush the system.

Have fun with the grow.
what’s the best way to prevent screwing up thenutesMy plan is to handflush the plants at least once every two weeks and also start at a lower ppm feed and creeping it up
 
derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
Day 8 - Seedlings showing their leaves, looking like they’re nearing the start of veg stage. I’m lost on what to do next

When should I transplant these into their final medium? should I wait until I see visible root growth popping out of the sides?
 
derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
Day 11 - Transplanted these babies into coco coir on Tuesday (Day 9), used the CharCoir coco cubes. They're marketed as being prebuffered and triple washed to remove all salts so I figured that I would be good just hydrating them and putting the rockwool cubes into them without any proper flushing as I've never used coco before. Boyyyy was I wrong, I was starting to question why there wasn't much visible growth in the past two days and I found my answer - the average runoff PPM was 1400 and the runoff pH was 6.7. I decided to flush the plants with water pHed to 5.9, 0PPM, dosed with about 2mL of Athena Cleanse. Now the average runoff PPMs of the plants is in a more healthy range of 250-400 PPM with runoff of 6.2-6.5. Crisis averted for now I guess...
Hoping that they will get back on schedule with growth. I'm guessing that the CharCoir cubes weren't properly washed of their salts or thei r

I also noticed that the stems of the seedlings were stretchy and fragile so I used my new Luxx meter to measure the amount of light that they were getting. Turns out the seedlings were getting a range of 1500-2500 Luxx, an unacceptable range. I decided to just move them into the grow tent and to dim my Gavita down to 50%, now the plants are receiving an adequate 9000-10000 Luxx.

I'm learning a lot from previous mistakes this time around and I'm glad that I'm catching these issues early before any noticeable damage is happening to my plants.

I might start feeding these babies soon with Calmag and maybe a small amount of Grow A and Grow B.

newpic.jpg
 
derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
Day 23. currently feeding
3ML Athena CaMg
3ML Grow A
3ML Grow B
1mL GH Rapid Start

PH to 5.9, 550PPM
stunted seedlings for about a week due to not preparing the coco properly but seems they are on a normal pace now

I’m also deploying a CaMG foliar spray once before lights turn on daily to address the CaMg deficiency
 
derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
Day 31
Good growth right now they came pretty dang far in a week. upped the nutrient feed to
Athena 3ML CaMg
Athena 5ML Grow A
5ML Grow B
2mL Cleanse

I fed them the GH rapid start at 1mL and they really started picking up on the root system like crazy
 
derekdakid

derekdakid

18
3
Day 40
Feeding 800ppm right now they are taking off highly recommend Gh Rapid start when growing seedings
 
Treecutter

Treecutter

90
33
what’s the best way to prevent screwing up thenutesMy plan is to handflush the plants at least once every two weeks and also start at a lower ppm feed and creeping it up
Start low and read your plants. Dont correct for over nutes unless you know its that and not just a lack of calcium, magnesium and phosphorus.
Phosphorus usually shows up in flower, tips look burned but they'll be an orange rusty color and you'll get spots on leaves that look like rust.

No calcium and magnesium will yellow the leaves except for the veins. It will stop taking up nitrogen and your plant will start feeding off its own leaves.

And with hydroponics it will show up fast. If you flush thinking its heavy on nutes when your lacking, you'll get the same results.

Hydro is great when you can constantly monitor it and all the gears are turning. Its a big misconception that hydro is like having cruse control.

I don't have time to monitor hydroponics so soil is my only option right now.

I see my plants once every 3 days.
 
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