7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

geralds · Oct 16, 2019

Hi guys,
New to the forum and I’m hitting you hard right out of the gate. I’ll try to make it short as possible and provide all the info I can.
10x10 tent Currently 7 weeks into flower of 9-10 week strains. 5 week veg from clone.Problem started shortly after light flip. 5 gallon fabric pots of canna coco. Lights 1000de dimmed to 75 and 50 percent 3ft above canopy.
Canna coco nutes + tap water. 30 gal res with two air stones and circ pump.Feeding (per gal) 4ml of A+B, 5ml Cannazym, 3ml canna boost, 4ml of pk, 0.5ml AN PH down, EC 1.0-1.2 PH 5.8-6.1. Runoff 1.3 ph 5.9-6.1. Fed 3 times per lights on to 20-30% runoff
one or two doses of calmag since flower. One dose Epsom.
Two oscillating fans above canopy set to medium, two box fans underneath set to high. Day temps 74-77 RH 45-50, night temps 63-68 RH 39-41. C02 1000-1300.
No bugs on leaves, some plants have springtails in the medium. Foliar sprayed twice with Dr Zymes Eliminator for pm.
I’ve crawled the web for similar issues but have found nothing that I can point the finger at.
I do notice that the 4x4 area directly in front of the AC has the least amount of this. I have a mini split in the tent and to my knowledge the temps have been ideal. Did the hand test, used a infrared temp gun, used a lux meter and I’m at 30,000 lux with a leaf temp of 76.
I understand I’m late into this cycle but at least want to figure it out for the next run. Any help would be great I can answer any question if any. Thanks guys hope someone can shine some light on this because it’s driving me Flippin crazy

Jimster · Oct 16, 2019

What type of water are you using? They appear that the might possibly be lacking in Magnesium. I grow in Promix so I'm not of too much use. It is mostly on older growth, so it could be a deficiency since epsom salts can be washed out of the medium fairly easily. I',m sure someone that is a lot more familiar with leaf symptos, although there are several great reference charts in the Infirmary section. Best of luck! Overall the plants look pretty good.
Oh... you checked for mites and bugs too, correct? :)

geralds · Oct 17, 2019

Hey thanks for replying. Yes I’ve checked for pests pretty thoroughly with a 100x scope. Not a one so far. Thanks!

geralds · Oct 17, 2019

Sorry using tap water 140ppm and I will check the charts you mentioned

Dirtbag · Oct 17, 2019

Are your ph and ppm meters calibrated properly?

I'd have to sit down and figure out the total ppm ratios to say but I suspect you might have an imbalanced NPK and possibly too much P.
At this stage your ppm breakdown should be roughly 120N 70P 230K

You can use this nutrient calculator to figure out what you're ratio looks like. Input the NPK for each ingredient one at a time and then add them all up to see where youre at.

Feel free to disregard the write up.. scroll to the bottom to find the calculator.

CannaStats - Nutrient Profiles for Cannabis

This page provides a common language spoken by all fertilizer solutions and a way to mix them for growing cannabis hydroponically. Sometimes referred to as the Lucas formula, this page explains the true origin of this well known proven formula and the project that led to its discovery. Emphasis...

www.angelfire.com

geralds · Oct 17, 2019

Ok thanks so I just filled it out is it supposed to calculate it for me. Idk what the hell im doing

geralds · Oct 17, 2019

Ok I just did it. So this is what I came up with for Canna A and B. I was using about 5-6 mls of each per gallon

Deadstill · Oct 17, 2019

Overall your plants look really nice, and really happy. Good job, and welcome to the Farm!

I'm curious as to what your roots look like. Just looking at how the plants look overall. I'm willing to bet there's some root rot giving them a hard time, but other than that the issues they are presenting don't seem to be causing too much of a problem.

Dirtbag · Oct 17, 2019

geralds said:
Ok I just did it. So this is what I came up with for Canna A and B. I was using about 5-6 mls of each per gallonView attachment 903122 View attachment 903121

You should redo it, where it says "mixing units_per US gallon" is where you put in 5 ml. Then it will tell you how much of everything is in your solution.

Top of my head dividing it all by 6.. Looks like your feed is about 50ppm N, 20ppm P, and 30ppm K.

That's an extremely low feed rate, and the ratio is wacky too. Not nearly enough K.

geralds · Oct 17, 2019

Ok I’ll redo it and see if I can make sense of it all. I was also adding pk 13/14 for two weeks at 5-6ml pg. Also yes I’ll be chopping in a few weeks so I’ll know what the roots look like then. At least then I’ll know if my watering schedule could use some tweaking.
thanks for the feedback guys. I didn’t think growing in coco was going to be anywhere near as challenging as it is. Before I started everything I read said it was the easiest medium for beginners. I’d have to disagree with that. Maybe once your get over the learning curve it would be easier, but the curve is pretty dang long. I think after a few grows I should have a solid understanding on how it all works.

Aqua Man · Oct 17, 2019

Ok in no particular order to add to @Dirtbag info

With low humidity direct airflow on leaves is an even bigger no no. Unless you have very dense colas you don't need to go below 50% RH. Either way you never want direct airflow on your plants. It will crisp your leave up through forced evaporation.

At 30000 lux you will see no benefit to CO2 levels over 400-500ppm. And higher levels in lower light can impact ripening I believe if memory serves correct.

75f is ideal leaf surface temp take with IR gun set to surface temp taken from the proper distance.

Drop your pk boost and all other addatives until you have a couple crops with only base nutes or your treating for deficiency so you can compare to see if it's improving or hurting your bud development. Too many people jump in adding all sorts of stuff that's often doing more harm than good.

So often missed is the humidity spike after lights out as the temps drop. Finding a way to slow the temp drop or having a dehumidifier that can deal with it will be the biggest improvement you can make to reduce the risk of pm short of addatives or foliars.

Dirtbag · Oct 17, 2019

Aqua Man said:
Ok in no particular order to add to @Dirtbag info

With low humidity direct airflow on leaves is an even bigger no no. Unless you have very dense colas you don't need to go below 50% RH. Either way you never want direct airflow on your plants. It will crisp your leave up through forced evaporation.

At 30000 lux you will see no benefit to CO2 levels over 400-500ppm. And higher levels in lower light can impact ripening I believe if memory serves correct.

75f is ideal leaf surface temp take with IR gun set to surface temp taken from the proper distance.

Drop your pk boost and all other addatives until you have a couple crops with only base nutes or your treating for deficiency so you can compare to see if it's improving or hurting your bud development. Too many people jump in adding all sorts of stuff that's often doing more harm than good.

So often missed is the humidity spike after lights out as the temps drop. Finding a way to slow the temp drop or having a dehumidifier that can deal with it will be the biggest improvement you can make to reduce the risk of pm short of addatives or foliars.

Good call, I missed the pk boost in the first post. That wasnt included in the nutrient calculations he did either, in which case I can almost guarantee his P is too high .

geralds · Oct 17, 2019

Yes I think it was a combo of a few things lol. So I’ve since dropped pk, c02, turned up humidity to 52, lowered fans. That was yesterday I I already see slight improvement. All the shit I thought I needed for huge buds! Lol

Dirtbag · Oct 17, 2019

geralds said:
Yes I think it was a combo of a few things lol. So I’ve since dropped pk, c02, turned up humidity to 52, lowered fans. That was yesterday I I already see slight improvement. All the shit I thought I needed for huge buds! Lol

Lol, the internet has a real way of fucking with growers... Nute companies are even worse. Listen to guys like Aqua Man, Jimster, MiMedgrower, cemchris, JWM2, and theres a few others here who really know what's up.

For an example, I just harvested the other day and this was one of 8 tops on a plant, 3.5 week veg in promix soiless, Ventilated grow with no Co2, using grow ratio nutes (botanicare pure blend pro grow) all the way through flower. No "bloom" ratio nutrients at all, nevermind pk boosters. (Actually not true, I did give them one single half dose of GP massive 1-2-3 at bud set.. But I didnt need too, and might not bother next time)

This the kind of Huge buds you're after? Check out MiMeds' Perpetual Thread, he uses just pbp grow on it's own throughout flower also. PBP is wonderful stuff, organic based one part that's about as foolproof as it gets. Although in coco I'd be tempted to run 1-1.2 ec PBP Hydro bloom as its ratios are almost perfect with relatively low P.

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Damn those are some dank looking buds man nice job. I really didn’t use anything outside I Cannas line. I bought there whole line and gave it a shot. I used AB, Zyme,Rhizotonic, boost, pk. Maybe next time I’ll try without pk and see if I get better results. Those are decent size plants for three week veg. I’ve read a lot of people using pure blend pro, or jacks 3-2-1. Killer buds brotha

Dirtbag · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
Damn those are some dank looking buds man nice job. I really didn’t use anything outside I Cannas line. I bought there whole line and gave it a shot. I used AB, Zyme,Rhizotonic, boost, pk. Maybe next time I’ll try without pk and see if I get better results. Those are decent size plants for three week veg. I’ve read a lot of people using pure blend pro, or jacks 3-2-1. Killer buds brotha

3.5 week veg lol, almost 4. Still though.. Clones were planted straight in big pots and vegged under 1000w MH to speed them up. Good genetics plays a huge part also. Other plants in the room didnt get nearly as big as this strain.

And yeah, the simpler you keep the nutrient solution the better IMHO.

Jimster · Oct 18, 2019

Dirtbag said:
And yeah, the simpler you keep the nutrient solution the better IMHO.

I couldn't have said it better myself!

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Quick question, for my veg tent I have 4 315 cmh lights. How far away do you keep your 1000w above canopy? My veg went flawless over this past summer but now even when using the same feed/water schedule they’re not looking as perked up and seem to be stretching a tad more. I have them about 4.5-5 feet above right now

Aqua Man · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
Quick question, for my veg tent I have 4 315 cmh lights. How far away do you keep your 1000w above canopy? My veg went flawless over this past summer but now even when using the same feed/water schedule they’re not looking as perked up and seem to be stretching a tad more. I have them about 4.5-5 feet above right now

I use an app... It's not the most ideal as a par meter or Lux meter would be more accurate.

Light meter by "my mobile tools dev"

Clones/seedling start 5-10k that's the first 2 weeks.

Veg week 1 10-15k increasing 5-7.5k a week.

Flower you want 40k+ with CO2 using led I can push 80k lumen. 60k-80k is a very good target.

But leaf temps need to be checked to ensure you are not going to fry your plants. A simple cheap IR gun and 75f is ideal once your hitting 80f you will see some issues. This is where ya might need to adjust fans, humidity, air temps to be able to get the most light to the plants while not frying your leaves.

Different lights and bulbs give off differing amounts of IR that raises leaf temps so imo an IR gun is a must have tool. This is why most led run room temps of 80-83f while HID typically is around 75-77f

Jimster · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
Quick question, for my veg tent I have 4 315 cmh lights. How far away do you keep your 1000w above canopy? My veg went flawless over this past summer but now even when using the same feed/water schedule they’re not looking as perked up and seem to be stretching a tad more. I have them about 4.5-5 feet above right now

I have the base of my bulb about 6 ft above the ground. As the plants grow, I move the plants from directly under the bulb and sort of surround the bulb. I might grow a shorter Indica under the bulb, but most of the growing comes from side lighting. It sort of looks like indians surrounding the settlers in the old days. I get a ton of growth from the side branches instead of just the top canopy. For this to work, though, you need to have a vertical hanging bulb that allows most of the light to go downward and sideways. I've done this for 30+ years and had great results. The plants look more like outdoors grown plants, but the setup has been reliable and simple.

7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

geralds

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7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

geralds

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CannaStats - Nutrient Profiles for Cannabis

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