7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

Dirtbag · Oct 18, 2019

I hang my lamps about 2' over the canopy and go full 1000w asap. Takes me about 1 week of slowly increasing light from 3' away @ 400w-600w-1000w and then dropping it down to 2'. If you think about it peak sun is from around June 21 through the dog days of summer, right when plants are vegging like crazy. So I shoot for max light intensity as soon as the plants can handle it for the fastest veg growth.
And I hang my lamps vertically with parabolic reflectors so very little radiant heat gets directed down to the plants, but i still get about 40,000 lux with leaf temps in the mid 70's

cemchris · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
Quick question, for my veg tent I have 4 315 cmh lights. How far away do you keep your 1000w above canopy? My veg went flawless over this past summer but now even when using the same feed/water schedule they’re not looking as perked up and seem to be stretching a tad more. I have them about 4.5-5 feet above right now

I keep mine pretty high without much issue (left side of the left table is a stretchy ass strain fresh clones). You can see the line on the wall for the coverage.

Can u take a pic of the breakdowns (% on the labels of the canna bottles (A+B). Also the weight/volume on the front or just post it. I saw it in the post earlier but usually A and B bottles will have different weights or at least just confirm they have the same weights. Canna is one of those companies you cant pull the labels off of easily off the web. I'm just kind of curious now.

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Absolutely I will take some pics. These are all Stardawg Corey and Guava cuts. All on 600ppm once a day feeds. Some have this bottom and mid level yellowing going on. Some are totally perfect and some are like this.

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Runoff is exactly what goes in

Dirtbag · Oct 18, 2019

Looks like big pots for once a day feeding, have you had a look at the roots?

They seem to have all the deficiencies and I'm thinking your plants are probably locked out. I'd run some florakleen or drip clean through them and recharge with calcium, then a light feeding around 450-500ppm of a balanced base nutrient.

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Wouldn’t I have a excessive runoff EC if I was locked out? Just check the roots. A few that are coming out of the bottom are a little brown

cemchris · Oct 18, 2019

When you get a chance snap the same pic of the other bottles. Working through this atm.
6:12 A:B per gal will yield a good ratio minus a K source. They seem to strip all the K out of the base nutes so you buy it in another bottle Even that ratio is only 65 ppm of K. I have a feeling PK 13/14 will blast the P value through the roof. It's like they used the same nutes that make up their PK 13/14 bottle in the B bottle. Almost the same ratio. Canna either runs insane P levels or IDK WTF is going on or the labels arent the actual breakdown of what's in the bottle which I have seen more then once...cough cough V+B.

Edit: actually don't since sussing through this they are hiding their actual ratio of whats in the bottles.

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Ok wow thank you

cemchris · Oct 18, 2019

As you can see here they use Mag Nitrate in the A bottle but list no Mg

Jesus they are some MPK whores. Seems to be in every bottle.

Dirtbag · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
Wouldn’t I have a excessive runoff EC if I was locked out? Just check the roots. A few that are coming out of the bottom are a little brown

Lol nevermind that comment man, I somehow missed page 1 and forgot this is the same thread I already commented on earlier when I had all the Info haha. Yeah I think the NPK ratio is off, and underfed.

Dirtbag · Oct 18, 2019

cemchris said:
Jesus they are some MPK whores. Seems to be in every bottle.

I thought the same thing.. lol, Nutrient companies are fucked.

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Oh man I just had 20 gallons of SLF ready to flush. Lmao

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

I guess I’m too much of a noob to fully understand. So what is it that is f’d up with this nutrient?

Dirtbag · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
I guess I’m too much of a noob to fully understand. So what is it that is f’d up with this nutrient?

The nutrients need to be both a certain strength, and combined in a certain ratio for optimal plant growth. That line just requires using several bottles in combination to balance the feed. Makes you buy a bunch of stuff. Using just A+B as base nutrients doesnt give you nearly enough K, And it contains an unusually widespread use of monopotassium phosphate across the product line.
Now you need to add more K somehow without adding too much P.

There are just much more user friendly options out there that are harder to fuck up is all.

geralds · Oct 18, 2019

Ok what do you recommend? I mean I don’t have a preference yet. This stuff has been costing a shit ton and giving me mediocre results as best.

cemchris · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
I guess I’m too much of a noob to fully understand. So what is it that is f’d up with this nutrient?

Naw man you are good. This is the type of stuff I nerd out on. Most of the time the schedule they lay out usually isnt the best and you can tweak it. Problem with Canna is the NPK % on the bottle don't match up to what is actually in the bottle or the salts used in them. They are hiding the recipe which means something like their schedule is prob what you want to stick to since there is no telling what is actually in it and the breakdown unless you spend some coin and get them actually tested. Which im not suggesting or advocating to do. If I was going that route I would switch nutes. Most of the time companies like Canna will only actually put this on the label because of Cali and Oregon and how Nazi they are with labeling. Hence they go for a semi acceptable label that will let them sell it there but not actually break down whats in it.

There is quite a few people that swear by Canna over the years. See if i can dig up one of the dudes I remember running it and doing quite good with it. From what I remember he made his own schedule for it.

This opened up a can of worms and was more for my curiosity so don't get thrown back from this. You can shrug off most of what I said as there is no real answer to be had on the line I was going. We dead ended.

cemchris · Oct 18, 2019

geralds said:
Ok what do you recommend? I mean I don’t have a preference yet. This stuff has been costing a shit ton and giving me mediocre results as best.

Honestly I would move to something like Pure Blend Pro Grow if you want to stay on the bottles and get something locally from the shop. People like @Dirtbag kill it with PBP and it's pretty much a spot on ratio (2-1-3 - basically a ratio you can use from veg all the way through flower) in 1 bottle. It's pretty cheap and super solid.

Most people don't run Canna or House and Garden because of the price hit you take in the wallet. I mean you will but over time you will understand the price isn't justified. I would be blowing through like 100 dollars a week on that stuff if I was using it currently.

geralds · Oct 20, 2019

So you’re saying you can use 1 bottle of PBP “Grow” no “Bloom” from start to finish. And get awesome results? Why wouldn’t you use the bloom also? In the mean time if you could pick your buddy’s brain about his Canna recipe I’d owe you one man. Seriously.

Dirtbag · Oct 20, 2019

geralds said:
So you’re saying you can use 1 bottle of PBP “Grow” no “Bloom” from start to finish. And get awesome results? Why wouldn’t you use the bloom also? In the mean time if you could pick your buddy’s brain about his Canna recipe I’d owe you one man. Seriously.

Exactly what we're saying. See my bud pic on page 1 for a plant grown with PBP grow all the way through, or check out MiMeds perpetual thread.

The reson for not using bloom specific nutrients is, our understanding of the needs of cannabis has changed quite a but in the last 5 years since it's become legal and easier to study, the info is coming out slowly if you know where to look.
Too much P, is very bad for cannabis. Especially when it comes to how clean it burns. And it locks out calcium in high concentrations... Its just not needed unless you are in heavy organic soil full of colloidal clay particles which bind to P and lock it up, like you find outdoors. Loamy soil. And it turns out N is way more important than we thought in flower, and has little to do with how it burns. N should be dialed back a bit in the last week of flower but otherwise it needs lots of N.

For what we do, pbp grow is an excellent ratio to use from start to finish. Pbp bloom is also a really good ratio, but compared to most other bloom formulas it is still low in P with higher K. You never want the NPK to have a higher P value than K.

Springwater · Oct 20, 2019

I encountered this exact set of symptoms while growing blue dream about 5 years ago. I was also using tap water, and as it turns out, there had been some flooding in my area resulting in the sewer system overflowing and entering the water system. Standard practice in the instance was to give a massive dose of chlorine to the water supply.

I took a sample and brought it to my uncle for testing (he's an agricultural chemist) and sure enough, chlorine levels were through the roof. It turns out that what I was experiencing was probably chlorosis combined with nutrient lockout. I was having to use too much ph down to adjust my res, which come to find out is phosphoric acid, so even though my ph was good, it caused nutrient lockout from too much P.

My uncle gave me an asorbic acid (I think) solution to neutralize the chlorine, and a calcium bicarbonate (I think) solution to neutralize the acid. After a couple days of flushing, I started at half the nutes I was using and worked my way back up over the next few days, and ended up making it through harvest without further incident.

Not sure if this helps...

7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

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7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

7 weeks into flower having some issues. Please help!

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