Alien V-System vs DWC Noob

[ExpertNovice]

Howdy folks. I’ve grown in soil and NFT trays before but had to throw everything away during a move. Now i’ve bought a house instead of renting so i decided to try something new.

System - 4 pot Alien V-System RDWC
Light - Omega Infinity 3.0 Pro 1000w
Tent - 2m x 2m x 2.2m
Media - Coco Plugs surrounded by pebbles
Air - Phresh Hyper fan 6” for extraction. 1 small clip on fan (the second died), 1 tower fan and 1 pedestal fan for circulation.
Temps - around 20c for the air and water (no chiller(next time))
Humidity - 50-60% depending on weather
Food - Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur + almost all of the additives. Great White in the plug and first 2 weeks.
Water - Tap with Ecothrive Neutralise
PH - Start at 5.5 but the AN takes it to 6.5 after around 2 days
EC - Currently 2.4
Strains - 2 Glookies, 1 Blueberry OG, 1 Tropicana Banana

This first run is an experiment (aren’t they all?) where i’ve tried to make them as bushy and short as possible using only LST.

I’ve had a few problems. The first extractor fan didn’t work. I couldn’t get the drains to stop leaking and after rebuilding the system 5 times i glued it all together. Biobizz ph down sent my ph to 8! I broke the drain so ordered another and a blank, the second drain broke the first time i tried to pull the hose off so now i just use a submersible pump to drain it. A fan died. My houses heating randomly stayed on one day and i came home to it being 29c. I’ve had nute burn and deficiencies. One plant is much slower than normal and one is ridiculously fast. Normal growing pains.

But, it’s actually going pretty well. I decided to start a diary because i couldn’t find much user content about the V-System so this will probably be interesting to others. Advice is welcome too as i’m a DWC noob and haven’t grown for around 5 years.

A few V-System specific notes. The drain pipes were too big causing leaks, the feed pipes were tight and fine. The pump is louder in the room below than in the tent, anti vibration is a must! I have it on some bubble packing and a towel at the moment but will improve this next time. I’m in a 2m x 2m tent and it feels tight, i wouldn’t go any smaller even with the header and pump outside. I’ll likely run the header and pump outside next time and use a chiller. The venturi’s are very good, if you’re using co2 or high temps though you’ll need these outside the tent or they heat/ acidify the water. I drilled 3-4mm holes around the lid to use as tie down points with string, the first ones were drilled too low but still work OK. You want them as high as they can be without getting to the air space inside the pot so they don’t get wet. The amount of air bubbles in this system means water does hit the lid even with a decent gap. The view lids always need to be tipped into the pot before taking them off and you do get nute build up around them. The vortex motion also causes roots to wrap at water surface level, this makes root rot more likely so water temps and beneficial bacteria or sterilisation is important. My temp is ok so i’m hoping Sensizym, Voodoo and Tarantula do enough.

To the actual growing.

They went into the system when a tap root came out of the coco plug. There has been almost no side roots though so i’ll do some top watering in future to help this. As soon as roots hit the water they took off. I’m just saying the small one was a bad seed as the other Glookies from the same pack is doing fine. It’s also a week behind to be fair as one seed didn’t germinate.

I started them around 1ec at 250w, wk2 1.5, wk3 1.9 at 500w, wk4 2.1 at 750w and wk5 2.4 at 1000w. The light has stayed ‘too’ high but i’ve used Photone to check it’s OK. I could run it lower at lower power levels but it’s just easier being in there with the light high. It’ll have to drop in flower.

The biggest (Tropicana Banana) has been happy throughout. The Glookies and Blueberry OG have shown some necrosis of older leaves which seems to be a calcium deficiency, likely a lockout as the biggest is doing well. It’s hard to lower feed levels when i’m far below what AN recommend and one is doing so well. I will try starting flower a little lower and see what happens.

The pictures are from around 4.5 weeks in the system. I plan to flip this weekend which will be 5 weeks. I’m afraid of bud rot due to how dense they are, especially the Tropicana Banana, so i’ll be using a dehumidifier when they start to bud. I’m also afraid of root rot as already mentioned, i’ll just see how it goes.

Glookies #1

Glookies #2

Blueberry OG

Tropicana Banana

Tropicana Banana height

I’ve been removing some leaves and tucking others throughout. They absorb light and act like batteries so i’m leaving more on than usual while i get used to this setup. When i flip i’ll remove more, then plan to remove some for air flow around wk3 of flower and any more that NEED to come off after, i’d like to keep as many as is reasonable though.

As they’re so short and bushy i’m not going to lolipop. I may remove some bud sites around wk2 if they’ll be a waste but the aim of this has been to remove as little as possible throughout.

Any help is much appreciated. Comments, questions and chit chat are also welcome. Thanks for looking.

 

[One_Bell]

Can't really help you (firstgrower myself) but awesome setup you have with the Alien. Sorry to hear it first caused leaks. Plants are looking

 

[ExpertNovice]

Thanks. I checked out yours and calling yourself a first time grower is just cheeky, you already seem to know more than most! I’m jealous of your propagation stuff and monitoring equipment. I used a coco plug under my bathroom light and monitor with a ph/ec pen and hygrometer.

I’ve never grown with DWC, LED or anything but the cheapest basic nutes far too weak or none at all. I’m enjoying this a lot.

I did a res change today at week 5 in the system and thought i’d list it. If any of this is stupid please let me know because i’m just making it up as i learn. I’ll add a few V-System specific things first.

Despite the four pots being 58L, plus the header, plus the feed and drain lines, i put 200L of water in. I add the neutralize around 140L and turn the system on, then ph at 200L. I do this slowly with a 3ml pipette even though 3ml drops it by around 0.3.

I always have the return tap from the pump to the header open just enough for there to be surface water movement in the header. When adding thicker things like carboload and bud candy it’s better to open the tap more to help mix them in the header.

The first number is m/L.

Neutralize + ph 5.5 = 0.3 ec
0.25 carbo - 50
0.5 candy - 100
1 sensi - 200
0.5 voo - 100
0.25 taran - 50
0.5 b52 - 100
0.5 rhino - 100
0.5 x - 100
0.5 big - 100
0.5 tasty - 100
2 ignitor - 400
1 G AB - 200
1.5 B AB - 300
2.1 @ 5.6

A little grow, a little bloom. Lower ec than before. According to some grows i’ve seen my ec should be much lower. I’m running less than AN say and some stuff says an ec up to 3 is ok. I have no idea.

I’ve changed the light times. I knocked 2 hours off tonight and they’ll wake up an hour later tomorrow. The next two days i’ll take another 1.5 per night. Not a big difference but i hope they prefer it.

I’ll add a root picture i took while cleaning. The dark part terrified me at first. It started as soon as a few roots began to tangle at the surface. Fresh growth kept coming though which has stayed healthy and it’s never been slimy or smelly so i’m not as worried now. Instead i’m worried the drain will get blocked by roots despite being 6”!

 

[ExpertNovice]

5 weeks +1 day in the system and, because they didn’t freak out over the nute change, it’s time for some stretch prep.

I didn’t get a before picture of the first glookies but pictures in the op are only from 4 days ago.

Glookies #1

Glookies #2

Blueberry OG

Tropicana Banana

I’ll have to take a bit more off in a few days, probably on repeat for a few weeks, but that’ll do for today.

First time training like this so it will be interesting to see what all the stuff i’d usually cut off turns into.

Hopefully it’ll just be weekly updates now, after a few bonus pictures from the 7th of Feb which was a day under 3 weeks in the system. The growth in 16 days has been wild.

Tropicana Banana

Glookies #2

 

[One_Bell]

Thanks for the kind comment. Your plants look like they are really thriving, also the roots look like I am using Great White to keep them healthy, I can really recommend it. You did an excellent job at flattening out the canopy. I am currently much lower in EC (I am growing auto's, they take half of photo's when it comes to nutrients), but your plants seem to handle it right. Also that V-system is really shining, the pinnacle of RDWC in my opinion. Great setup and great progress! Can't wait to see your end results mate! Please keep us updated.

 

[ExpertNovice]

I am using Great White to keep them healthy, I can really recommend it.

I used it in the plug before adding the seed then added it to the res the first few weeks. The build up on the roots scared me though and the filter was getting pretty nasty. I suspected it was Great White and stopped using it.

I figure if the build up on the roots is from it because the filter has stayed clean but it is still on the roots and growing, i don’t need to add more?

Hearing that you like the V-System when you clearly do a lot of research is very reassuring. I was going to buy auto pots but read the lines blocked, then preferred the alien easy feed but didn’t want stagnant water or float valves failing. I stupidly went to the alien website.

I bought into the hype of this after checking out lots of marketing material even though it cost more than my original total budget. I couldn’t find much real use of it though which is why i decided to share my experience.
I made a tub outside the tent with a wooden frame and plastic sheeting so if all the water drains i should be ok.

I’m still worried about pump failure and plan to get a spare. I don’t suppose anyone knows a quieter one that would work?

 

[One_Bell]

I used it in the plug before adding the seed then added it to the res the first few weeks. The build up on the roots scared me though and the filter was getting pretty nasty. I suspected it was Great White and stopped using it.

I figure if the build up on the roots is from it because the filter has stayed clean but it is still on the roots and growing, i don’t need to add more?

Hearing that you like the V-System when you clearly do a lot of research is very reassuring. I was going to buy auto pots but read the lines blocked, then preferred the alien easy feed but didn’t want stagnant water or float valves failing. I stupidly went to the alien website.

I bought into the hype of this after checking out lots of marketing material even though it cost more than my original total budget. I couldn’t find much real use of it though which is why i decided to share my experience.
I made a tub outside the tent with a wooden frame and plastic sheeting so if all the water drains i should be ok.

I’m still worried about pump failure and plan to get a spare. I don’t suppose anyone knows a quieter one that would work?

Ah that is a shame to hear. I am still adding GW to every res cahnge and topfeeding, It can have leave some "dust" in your res, but that is from what the GW is carrying. Should not do any harm.

I read a lot a bout the alien system but only once saw someone growing with it. The chap had a some issues with the roots tangling up:

Despite that, and also see you progressing I still found it a really interesting system and I think still one of the best out currently.

Trying to rule out or to battle any equipment faillure, I bought all pieces twice. You can't wait a day for a new airpump with (r)dwc. Same goes for the circulation pump. What kind of pump are you looking for? Water or air? I can make a few recommendations after searching this myself ( and getting feedback from fellow users).

 

[ExpertNovice]

This is the pump that came with it.

Hopefully their issues were caused by things i’m doing differently. They were in rockwool and it looks like it rotted from there. I’m using good bacteria too and they weren’t. I doubt them having 10c higher air being pumped into the roots with extra co2 helped much either.

 

[DankUrbanBoss]

This is the pump that came with it.

Hopefully their issues were caused by things i’m doing differently. They were in rockwool and it looks like it rotted from there. I’m using good bacteria too and they weren’t. I doubt them having 10c higher air being pumped into the roots with extra co2 helped much either.

I bought the big 4row 16 pot variant and man I have had so many leaks where the tubes meet the fittings flange (where the clamps attach). I guess I either need to be applying WAY more grease or my clamp placement is wrong. I have tried multiple clamp locations referring to the manual and everything. But under a full load it seems no matter what I get a leak.

I brought it up to BlackDogLED and they mentioned it must be how I’m installing it. They also offered to exchange for the AERO kit but I’m like if it isn’t the v system I could just make it myself.

Lastly I am thinking about running it with ABS Primer/Cement to join the tubes to the fittings permanently and create a good seal that won’t let leaks through.

 

[Chez]

This is the pump that came with it.

Hopefully their issues were caused by things i’m doing differently. They were in rockwool and it looks like it rotted from there. I’m using good bacteria too and they weren’t. I doubt them having 10c higher air being pumped into the roots with extra co2 helped much either.

Hey, ihave the alien v-system. I have had some similiar issues as you but i fixed everything and have no issues this whole grow.

Ill explain.
First, no bennies. I use a 1hp commercial chiller.

Second, go sterile. I use cleanse, more specifically hydro cleanse. I buy by the 5 gal, ill get into it later.

Third, i use bluelab guardian wifi in rez, and milwaukee oro controller(get into later), and 3 ac infinity peristaltic pumps, to automate certain things.

Fourth, i attached a permenant hose and another toggle switch to the drain, and have a dedicated punp that stays in tent connected to it. So i turn knobs, not disconnect hose to drain.

Fifth, i do not set my rockwool on the spot they want. I fill basket with tetrabase abd put rockwool level with top, to give more space, less chance root rot.

Sixth, i use tetrabase, not hydroton. To stop all sediment and issues related.

Seventh, i bought more of the silicone and used it all over, a lot, so no leaks. Also chuck setting 6, i used on dewalt.


Theres more, but im not all sure just kinda throwing this together. If you or anyone wants more info, im glad to share.

Setup
10x10 tent
4 - 750w lights.
1hp commercial chiller
Fans, fans fans.
10 inch inline inside and 10 inch inline outside, both with carbon filters
And lots more...

Ok, so root rot, ifound is a NON issue, if you abide by what im telling you.
This system is different. I dont know why. Hocl acts slightly different in it.
You need to CONSTANTLY monitor it and have a autodrip setup at a certain orp level, to add more hocl.

Heres what i did, igot a orp controller, 5gal bucket of cleanse, hooked ac infinity peristaltic pump up to it, set orp controller to 320. Autodrip hocl to keep above 320m
I MAINTAIN orp between 300-400.
To clean, i flood with orp of 500-600.

Not a single problem since then.

Problems happened before orp controller, and orp dropping to 250-200 and root rot started to form. So implemented above protocol, and been great since.

I use 2 other peristaltic pumps to keep ph level between 6.2 and 5.8, pumping in balance. And the other is for nutes, pumping nutes slowly to keep ec.

Feel free to ask questions if you want. Ive managed to stabilize the system and make it extremely user friendly.

 

[Chez]

I bought the big 4row 16 pot variant and man I have had so many leaks where the tubes meet the fittings flange (where the clamps attach). I guess I either need to be applying WAY more grease or my clamp placement is wrong. I have tried multiple clamp locations referring to the manual and everything. But under a full load it seems no matter what I get a leak.

I brought it up to BlackDogLED and they mentioned it must be how I’m installing it. They also offered to exchange for the AERO kit but I’m like if it isn’t the v system I could just make it myself.

Lastly I am thinking about running it with ABS Primer/Cement to join the tubes to the fittings permanently and create a good seal that won’t let leaks through.

I agree, its how your connecting them. There is literally less than a mm of leway. Get more silicone add that, then use flat head to make sure little wing on clamp isnt caught on pipe stopping from going all the way tight.
I agree pain in ass, but it doesnt leak if done right.

 

[DankUrbanBoss]

I agree, its how your connecting them. There is literally less than a mm of leway. Get more silicone add that, then use flat head to make sure little wing on clamp isnt caught on pipe stopping from going all the way tight.
I agree pain in ass, but it doesnt leak if done right.

I agree I knew it was going to need waaaay more grease. If you could could you show pictures of your setup like position of clamps and what not?

 

[Chez]

I agree I knew it was going to need waaaay more grease. If you could could you show pictures of your setup like position of clamps and what not?

Ya, ill grab some pictures now. One sec.
But i ordered ike 6 (3) pack of the grease it came with, i used a lil more grease.
But ill get pics now. Ill be right back.

 

[Chez]

I agree I knew it was going to need waaaay more grease. If you could could you show pictures of your setup like position of clamps and what not?

Heres the clamp.position.
Tucked up to the edge of the blue piece, but not overlapping. The wing will overlap, then not tighten down all the way.

 

[Jonesfam]

Sorry didn't have time to read thru all of this but your plants are having that droopy look, I struggled with this before myself, first off I believe your ec is a little high, and you definately need to take preventative measures for root rot, water chiller and or beneficial bacteria like hydrogaurd, or southern ag gff. If you keep your water temp at <62°f and 5ml of %3 hydrogen peroxide per gallon, you can run sterile. You should always start with 1/2 recommended dosage on pretty much all nutrient lines or even less, it would be much easier and cheaper to use a 1 or 2 part powder based line. Maxigrow/maxibloom is my personal favorite, liquids are overpriced and over hyped, especially brands like AN. You can use maxi bloom full cycle as a 1 part works fine, and keep a bottle of cal mag for deficiency. That is literally all you need. Ive been in your shoes years ago with a diy system learning dwc, it's easy to over complicate, keep it simple and things will go much smoother in the beginning, then after a couple successful harvest you can try improving with diffrent nutrient lines or supplemental p or k boosts, more than likely all those products won't improve your overall quality but that's something you will have to see for yourself.

 

[Chez]

Sorry didn't have time to read thru all of this but your plants are having that droopy look, I struggled with this before myself, first off I believe your ec is a little high, and you definately need to take preventative measures for root rot, water chiller and or beneficial bacteria like hydrogaurd, or southern ag gff. If you keep your water temp at <62°f and 5ml of %3 hydrogen peroxide per gallon, you can run sterile. You should always start with 1/2 recommended dosage on pretty much all nutrient lines or even less, it would be much easier and cheaper to use a 1 or 2 part powder based line. Maxigrow/maxibloom is my personal favorite, liquids are overpriced and over hyped, especially brands like AN. You can use maxi bloom full cycle as a 1 part works fine, and keep a bottle of cal mag for deficiency. That is literally all you need. Ive been in your shoes years ago with a diy system learning dwc, it's easy to over complicate, keep it simple and things will go much smoother in the beginning, then after a couple successful harvest you can try improving with diffrent nutrient lines or supplemental p or k boosts, more than likely all those products won't improve your overall quality but that's something you will have to see for yourself.

This is bad advice for the Alien V-System specifically.

BENNIES are NOT supposed to be used in this system.

What you said is good for general hydro, but NOT the Alien V-System.

 

[Jonesfam]

And 1 more thing be absolutely sure to leave an air gap under your pot need at least an inch or you will have problems.

 

[Chez]

And 1 more thing be absolutely sure to leave an air gap under your pot need at least an inch or you will have problems.

This system has a fill line, which is located an inch or 2 below net pots. Its built into the system.

 

[Jonesfam]

This is bad advice for the Alien V-System specifically.

BENNIES are NOT supposed to be used in this system.

What you said is good for general hydro, but NOT the Alien V-System.

Never used the alien, the cold water and peroxide should be fine tho, root rot is the main culprit for most new to dwc. Why can't you use bennies in this system, residue issues?

 

[Chez]

Never used the alien, the cold water and peroxide should be fine tho, root rot is the main culprit for most new to dwc. Why can't you use bennies in this system, residue issues?

If you dont know about this system, then id stop commenting.
Its not a normal system, and your putting your foot in your mouth trying to advise on something you know nothing about.
Anyhow, if you want to know about this system, do your research.