Amending Canna Coco: Ph Locked Out

SAMCRO · Jan 2, 2013

I'm searching for an amendment to bring PH down in Coco. I'm trying to avoid replacing the COCO but will If I have to. Had a really bad lock out and suffered a major set back in my Canna Coco beds. Using straight Canna Coco we had 3 really good runs and then got hit in the face with Major PH Lock out at week 6. Beds are now empty and completely dry. After the harvest I flushed the crap out of the tables (Like I always Do) to the tune of 1200 plus gallons of RO water in 3 beds. Tried to bring down the Coco PH to 5.5 to reset for the next round. PPMs are down to flushing at the same PPM as going in. However the PH refuses to give up. The PH going in has been set at 5.5, 5.0, 4.0. at different days and still continues to give up and is still locked in at 6.7 with the run off. I'm ready to throw the coco away at this point and start over. The cost of RO membrains are not cheap and if I keep flushing which I don't think is going to do a damn bit of good after 1200 to 1500 gallons already in 3 beds. The main reason to run Coco for me is to not haul bags and bags into the grow facility each run. Cuts back on cost, clean and easy to use. Going to amend the beds with Perlite and some Sunshine Mix #3 and a few other Alien recommendations to help my girls but did not want to waste the money in amending yet if I'm only going to throw this locked out COCO anyways.

So what additive is out there to put directly in the beds to bring down PH to reset COCO for the next run to 5.5? Similar to Dolomite Lime brings the PH back up? What else do you guys who run Coco amend your beds or buckets with prior to each run? Straight Coco is not working for me anymore.

Please don't tell me to keep flushing. If I flush any more I could have already replaced the COCO with the cost of replacing the membrains.

Thanks guys I appreciate it.

SAMCRO

swisscheese · Jan 2, 2013

What nutrients are you running? Do you have root aphids? Coco is really inconsistent with the medium ph wanting to rise up like that.

SAMCRO · Jan 2, 2013

Heavy 16 nutes is my normal routine with Heavy Prime and Fire. However I changed up that particular run and ran Alien Genetics "ORGANIC" line in my COCO along with CAPS Beneficials to see what and how they would come out. I got burned with Lock out at week 6. Even though I did a nute, nute, flush routine. Flushed with Cal Mag and RO like normal to avoid lock out. Started to check run off out of curiosity and by that time it was all but too late.

Did not see any Aphids. But its really hard to check for Root Aphids in large beds accurately. Use to run pots and it was super easy to let dry out a pot, pull out of pot and check with microscope. Cant really do that in beds with 14 to 15 bags of Coco in them.

grower4life · Jan 3, 2013

Ive been running coco for about 6 years now and havent ever had a problem with inconsistence, ive used botanicare cogro , canna coco and a few others, always end up back at canna. Im not really sure what will bring the ph down, but i do have a couple of buddies that also do beds and most of them like myself only use coco for 1 round , I do now a few kats that will wash once and re use. I use 3 gall geo pots and do not re use my coco and do understand how it can be a pain in the ass and a security risk to bring in a bunch of bags each round but thats the price we are willing to pay not to have problems.
The only thing I can say i throw it away and start over with new coco.
Im sorry to hear about the loss!

grower4life · Jan 3, 2013

In thinking about it maybe you should google canna nutrients and go to there website and consault them. I bet they would have an answer for you.

SAMCRO · Jan 4, 2013

Will give it a shot. Just wanted to avoid throwing it away. Total pain in the ass. But its leaning towards dumping and starting over. I'm not finding a suitable answer on here or on other boards or from other growers. Just read people's COCO grows likes Jack on here and some others that successful skilled growers that run COCO for time and time again, wash, flush, recharge with CAL MAG at 5.5 and hit it again and again. Unless I'm reading it wrong or have misread something. Maybe its only GREAT for 2 or 3 Runs like bulbs and its part of the recycle program with keeping the final product top notch. After that maybe its a little questionable. Ill email CANNA and see what they say. I'm ready to transplant the next cycle into flower and Im kind of putting them off until I get an answer.

advanced396 · Jan 4, 2013

Have you tried flushing with base nute & cannazym for a couple days

SAMCRO · Jan 4, 2013

Cannazym at 10ML per gallon and CAL MAG, 5ML CAL MAG and 10ML per gallon of CAL MAG. Never tried with BASE. Tried with NO CAL MAG and just R/O WATER ONLY, 4.0 to 5.5 ph ranges with the varying combinations. Watered/FLUSHED/FLOODED every day, then I let the beds completely dry out and then hit them again etc because I never see a change when I do back to back flushings with PPMs or PH. So I always give a day or two after the beds are saturated and then hit them again.

BCrocker · Jan 4, 2013

SAMCRO said:
Cannazym at 10ML per gallon and CAL MAG, 5ML CAL MAG and 10ML per gallon of CAL MAG. Never tried with BASE. Tried with NO CAL MAG and just R/O WATER ONLY, 4.0 to 5.5 ph ranges with the varying combinations. Watered/FLUSHED/FLOODED every day, then I let the beds completely dry out and then hit them again etc because I never see a change when I do back to back flushings with PPMs or PH. So I always give a day or two after the beds are saturated and then hit them again.

Ok, I have been using Canna products for a while now... Have had the same coco/perlite/hydrton mix in one room for over 18 months.
I have never had to flush like you are talking 1200 gallons?!?

I *never* flush coco... I run maybe 1.5x to 2x volume through them with a 0.5 EC nutrient solution (A+B + ZYM only) I never use 5.5 pH for anything.. Only 5.8 to 6.0.

If you are only using 14-15 bags of coco, that's not very much $.. sounds like an easy fix. My pH runs off at 6.0 to 6.4, and I have no issues with different strains. Last 3 runs have been 1gpw or over 2 lb /1000w on kushes

Keep it simple.

BCrocker · Jan 4, 2013

Canna coco + perlite or hydrton , 50/50
Canna coco nutrients A+B
Zym (one per week)
Rhizo (every other feed in veg)
PK wk 2-Mid (depends on strain)
A Cal/MG product if you want, it is not needed if you are using 8ml / gal on most strains.
Boost (if you want. Everytime I have ran it it has paid for itself in multiples)

AND if everything looks awesome, go for a late bloomer, like koolbloom powder, or moab or something.

I never go over 2.0 EC on the few strains that I stick with. Works damn amazing and quite fool proof.

Pancho-N-Lefty · Jan 4, 2013

I recently read something about using a lightly diluted base nutes (I think it was around 50%or less dilution)VS just RO because the nutes in a light formula will actually help the coco release salts easier than RO will. If I can find the article I will post up a link.
GL

PnL

SAMCRO · Jan 5, 2013

BCrocker said:
Ok, I have been using Canna products for a while now... Have had the same coco/perlite/hydrton mix in one room for over 18 months.
I have never had to flush like you are talking 1200 gallons?!?

I *never* flush coco... I run maybe 1.5x to 2x volume through them with a 0.5 EC nutrient solution (A+B + ZYM only) I never use 5.5 pH for anything.. Only 5.8 to 6.0.

If you are only using 14-15 bags of coco, that's not very much $.. sounds like an easy fix. My pH runs off at 6.0 to 6.4, and I have no issues with different strains. Last 3 runs have been 1gpw or over 2 lb /1000w on kushes

Keep it simple.

I guess you didn't read the post. The harvest is done. Flushing and prepping the tables for the next round and prepping the tables by flushing the excess salts where PH will not come down. I'm not going to transplant healthy happy plants in COCO that is running off at 6.7 in the beds.

its 15 bags per table multiple tables X 15 per table is not "AN EASY" deal or cheap. Sure if you have 1 lonely table. Sure its easy to dump and buy new anybody can do that. Hauling it, reloading 15 bags per table X how many tables is not as easy by yourself as it seems. Not cheap when you times 12 to 15 bags per table x how many tables is not just a drop in the bucket. Just wanted to try and avoid it and be smart and . Just figured if you could raise PH in beds with Dolomite Lime you could lower it with X. X doesn't exist yet in my growing knowledge with some kind of amendment to add and mix in with the coco.

SAMCRO · Jan 5, 2013

Pancho-N-Lefty said:
I recently read something about using a lightly diluted base nutes (I think it was around 50%or less dilution)VS just RO because the nutes in a light formula will actually help the coco release salts easier than RO will. If I can find the article I will post up a link.
GL

PnL

Thanks I do that with regular maint but never tried that while prepping tables. Have to give that a shot. Cool thanks.

Pancho-N-Lefty · Jan 5, 2013

No worries glad to help.

PnL

JACKMAYOFFER · Jan 6, 2013

SAMCRO said:
Cannazym at 10ML per gallon and CAL MAG, 5ML CAL MAG and 10ML per gallon of CAL MAG. Never tried with BASE. Tried with NO CAL MAG and just R/O WATER ONLY, 4.0 to 5.5 ph ranges with the varying combinations. Watered/FLUSHED/FLOODED every day, then I let the beds completely dry out and then hit them again etc because I never see a change when I do back to back flushings with PPMs or PH. So I always give a day or two after the beds are saturated and then hit them again.

Never ever flush coco beds with no base nutes this is your problem. Give them 600 PPM OF BASE NUTES and double your cal mag dose and your ph will be spot on what ever you ph it at thats what it will be.. I have seen this so many times keep flushing with veg base nutes and cal mag until your ph is stable..JACK

SAMCRO · Jan 7, 2013

JACKMAYOFFER said:
Never ever flush coco beds with no base nutes this is your problem. Give them 600 PPM OF BASE NUTES and double your cal mag dose and your ph will be spot on what ever you ph it at thats what it will be.. I have seen this so many times keep flushing with veg base nutes and cal mag until your ph is stable..JACK

Thanks Jack. Appreciate you stopping by to help with my situation. Never thought I would hear from you again. Hope all is well and that your safe and good.

BCrocker · Jan 11, 2013

Funny, that's the same thing I said. Don't flush it :eek:

SAMCRO · Jan 20, 2013

Sorry Guys. Just sent another 700 plus gallons through the tables with base plus cal mag at 10ML per gallon over the last week. Base Veg Nutes at 600 PPM. Going in at 5.0 to 5.5 coming out at 6.1 and 6.2 consistently. Still not good enough to transplant. I'm simply amazed at how this CANNA COCO after 3 runs refuses to give up and bring down the PH.

To give you an idea a normal feeding is about 20 gallons a table. So flushing with hundreds to make PH come down and not working is making me scratch my head at where I went wrong along the way.

I thought it was maybe the table liners throwing me off. So I took a bunch of COCO from the tables and put them in clean 2 gallon buckets and tested run off to see if the black cloth liners were throwing the PH off. Still the same 6.0 without the cloth. Not enough for me to think its the cloth anyways. Checked with 2 different blue lab meters. Getting the same going in and coming out with either meter. Not the meters. PPMs with run off is now climbing as well regardless. Well above 900 to 1000 PPM now with run off.

According to the what Ive read a healthy medium for coco is going in at 5.7 and coming out at 5.7. Should be the same going in and coming out. I figured it the base veg nute deal would make it happen. Lost at what should be done at this point. Other than buying an entire truck load of new coco and staring over.

BCrocker · Jan 25, 2013

6.1 IS FINE. I consistantly get 1gpw, just fucking plant them already.

How the F would you expect the solution to go in at 5.7 and come out at the same???

Carl Sagan · Feb 4, 2013

i dont reuse my canna coco.
others may have success, but the problems that MAY arise from keeping that shit around at this level of play almost negate the savings. just buy new shit.

Amending Canna Coco: Ph Locked Out

Amending Canna Coco: Ph Locked Out

SAMCRO

swisscheese

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grower4life

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advanced396

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Pancho-N-Lefty

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JACKMAYOFFER

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Amending Canna Coco: Ph Locked Out

Amending Canna Coco: Ph Locked Out

SAMCRO

swisscheese

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grower4life

grower4life

SAMCRO

advanced396

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BCrocker

BCrocker

Pancho-N-Lefty

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JACKMAYOFFER

Playing with Fire Son...

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