Ancient grower, forever learning. Diagnosis please.

[Wacahoota_Road]

First time posting. I'm not new at this growing thing. I began 55 years ago after graduating from U of F in Gainesville Florida. We lived on Wacahoota Road. When I started there were three varieties, Mexican, Colombian and Jamaican. Indica was unheard of until my last year growing there. I could write a book about our learning curve. Back then it was trial and error, and a much more dangerous profession than it is today. I could tell you stories that would curl your toes.
In 80 I hung it up for a career in the theme park industry as an art director. After retiring I decided to give it a try again. The climate had changed, the predators and allies had changed and the natural tenacity of the pure strains had been bred out. My grows were 6 month disasters.
Having never tried indoor I figured, what the hell. That was another 2 year learning curve, but I finally began getting better results. I've grown under fluorescent, "burple" LEDS, and recently with Mars Hydro FC4000 Evos. I've always been able to bring in a worthy crop. I'll post a few.
The reason I joined this Forum because I still have a few questions about ph, deficiencies, and excesses.
Case in point are these leaves and what they tell you. They are from RS 11 clones. The growing medium is a 60/40 Blend of Coco Loco and Coast of Maine Stonington Blend, respectively. I kept the clones in stasis in 3 oz cups on a window sill for 3 months, only giving them well water ph 7.25. That way they live but don't grow. They do develop a small bud due to the lighting conditions but reverted to growing when I put them in seed starter soil. They have veged for 7 weeks after a 3 month dormancy and this is their structure now.
My question is what this chlorosis indicates to you. These four leaves are from 2 different plants. Pictures are on the plant, and after removing. As you can see they are from mid levels and strangely enough every leaf is is affected the same way, even the curling and the lobes affected is identical.
I'm using minimal nutes because the COMSB is a relatively hot soil, and though the feeding EC is less than 1000, the runoff is 4.50 or higher. The feed nutes ph is 6.2 or 6.3 and the runoff is near that. The soil ph has been 6.2 - 6.3 at mid depth but drops at the bottom and climbs in the upper third of the pot.
Ask me.
The last two shots are of the RS11 mother plant.

 

[Smokey_LaFleur]

I'm not positive, but I think that coast of Maine is peat based soil? If so, that may be the cause. You're mixing coco and peat. From what I've read here and other places is that can lead to ph issues.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

First time posting. I'm not new at this growing thing. I began 55 years ago after graduating from U of F in Gainesville Florida. We lived on Wacahoota Road. When I started there were three varieties, Mexican, Colombian and Jamaican. Indica was unheard of until my last year growing there. I could write a book about our learning curve. Back then it was trial and error, and a much more dangerous profession than it is today. I could tell you stories that would curl your toes.
In 80 I hung it up for a career in the theme park industry as an art director. After retiring I decided to give it a try again. The climate had changed, the predators and allies had changed and the natural tenacity of the pure strains had been bred out. My grows were 6 month disasters.
Having never tried indoor I figured, what the hell. That was another 2 year learning curve, but I finally began getting better results. I've grown under fluorescent, "burple" LEDS, and recently with Mars Hydro FC4000 Evos. I've always been able to bring in a worthy crop. I'll post a few.
The reason I joined this Forum because I still have a few questions about ph, deficiencies, and excesses.
Case in point are these leaves and what they tell you. They are from RS 11 clones. The growing medium is a 60/40 Blend of Coco Loco and Coast of Maine Stonington Blend, respectively. I kept the clones in stasis in 3 oz cups on a window sill for 3 months, only giving them well water ph 7.25. That way they live but don't grow. They do develop a small bud due to the lighting conditions but reverted to growing when I put them in seed starter soil. They have veged for 7 weeks after a 3 month dormancy and this is their structure now.
My question is what this chlorosis indicates to you. These four leaves are from 2 different plants. Pictures are on the plant, and after removing. As you can see they are from mid levels and strangely enough every leaf is is affected the same way, even the curling and the lobes affected is identical.
I'm using minimal nutes because the COMSB is a relatively hot soil, and though the feeding EC is less than 1000, the runoff is 4.50 or higher. The feed nutes ph is 6.2 or 6.3 and the runoff is near that. The soil ph has been 6.2 - 6.3 at mid depth but drops at the bottom and climbs in the upper third of the pot.
Ask me.
The last two shots are of the RS11 mother plant.

This is far from the first thread I have responded to about mixing coco with potting soil. The properties contradict and the sum of the 2 is usually much less than either on their own. I hope that makes sense. Coco is like a shredded up sponge. A peat based soil mix is usually full of very fine particles. Those particles plug up the air holding properties and become sludge when mixed with coco. These home based mixes start with the idea of trying to create a blend that brings the best of both to one container. Unfortunately, its the source of your struggles. Your leaf issues are due to the mixture holding water too long. It doesn't dry like it should. The end result is root issues due to rot.

Usually, the above starts a big bunch of back and forth about this company providing coco/peat mixes. You're correct. These mixes are not the same. The mixture of coco and peat is typically 30 to 40% of the mix and the rest is organics and buffers. Everything in the mix is controlled right down to the particle size. It's done with a quality control lab and data to balance the mix. You won't replicate it at home.

 

[Wacahoota_Road]

Coco loco is a mixture itself, from Fox Farm. It contains coco but it is highly amended. The Coast of Maine Stonington Blend is also an amended coco, its considered a living soil. Are you familiar with it? As far as overwatering goes I take great care to keep that from happening, the pots are light before I feed them. They're in 5 gallon cloth pots and usually take 3 days to respire a gallon. There is no droop in the leaves after watering, only when they get too dry.
Strike one.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Coco loco is a mixture itself, from Fox Farm. It contains coco but it is highly amended. The Coast of Maine Stonington Blend is also an amended coco, its considered a living soil. Are you familiar with it? As far as overwatering goes I take great care to keep that from happening, the pots are light before I feed them. They're in 5 gallon cloth pots and usually take 3 days to respire a gallon. There is no droop in the leaves after watering, only when they get too dry.
Strike one.

What I told you isn't a guess.

Even if you're using 2 different mixes both being amended coco, your leaf issues are exactly what I said. Your roots are struggling, causing pH shift and those leaves you posted show classic wet feet issues. Its a sign that things are not really going all that well. I'd take a good solid look at your watering practices and/or your home mixed soil blend. You can fix this if you're open to suggestions.

 

[JIMKSI64]

Actually strike 2 as 2 fellas told you what is wrong.
Mixing coco and peat based soils will take a watering and nutrition schedule that is very unique. Most guys muddle through with pH and oxygen issues and next grow change to coco or soil.
Since yer new here I recon you may not be up to speed on using the forums. Use the 3 horizontal bars to navigate and look around for forums as there is a lot of info. Once you find forums scroll down until you find grow diaries. Once in diaries use the search glass and use the keywords coco and soil and perhaps even biobizz and see what the track record is like.
Not good. A few guys have success but most struggle.
Good luck!

 

[GNick55]

needs phosphorus,..

 

[GNick55]

fall colours on indoor plants is a deficiency unless you did it on purpose,..

 

[Wacahoota_Road]

After all, it is Rainbow Sherbet. It took the avenue I gave it. Winter Frost and Ruby.

 

[Wacahoota_Road]

Actually strike 2 as 2 fellas told you what is wrong.
Mixing coco and peat based soils will take a watering and nutrition schedule that is very unique. Most guys muddle through with pH and oxygen issues and next grow change to coco or soil.
Since yer new here I recon you may not be up to speed on using the forums. Use the 3 horizontal bars to navigate and look around for forums as there is a lot of info. Once you find forums scroll down until you find grow diaries. Once in diaries use the search glass and use the keywords coco and soil and perhaps even biobizz and see what the track record is like.
Not good. A few guys have success but most struggle.
Good luck!

Thank you. I'll take your advise, and expertise, more seriously. I did struggle with ph issues in achieving the product that I cloned.
It's difficult to relax my will, its a condition old folks settle into. I do appreciate your patience and effort to steer me to additional sources.
I've ease dropped on THCFarmer for guidance on issues in the past. Yesterday I finally took the dive. Patience is a virtue, thanks for reminding me.
It poses for interesting images in any case.

 

[Wacahoota_Road]

What I told you isn't a guess.

Even if you're using 2 different mixes both being amended coco, your leaf issues are exactly what I said. Your roots are struggling, causing pH shift and those leaves you posted show classic wet feet issues. Its a sign that things are not really going all that well. I'd take a good solid look at your watering practices and/or your home mixed soil blend. You can fix this if you're open to suggestions.

I apologize for my reaction and especially the tone of it. I would gladly put your suggestions into practice. Blinders off, claws retracted. When time permits, please. I'm retired, I can wait. I'll put a face to the name, two faces.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

I apologize for my reaction and especially the tone of it. I would gladly put your suggestions into practice. Blinders off, claws retracted. When time permits, please. I'm retired, I can wait. I'll put a face to the name, two faces.

Cute pup you have there! No harm done. It's all good.

 

[cpurola]

Following to learn what I can if I decide to go indoors. I have been growing outdoors in Southeast Michigan since it became legal and it's a blast. AND a battle. Lost all to disease last year and it's not looking good this year either.
Good luck straightening out the leaf issue, your grow space looks great, you too. (and your cute little dog.)

Oh, and Welcome! Lots of us have gray hair and wrinkles so you'll fit right in.

 

[JIMKSI64]

I for one would love to have a guy I could point to for this customer grow technique. From the diaries I read the guys balancing this nutrition and watering have a curve and it's based on pot size And % of perlite. I do not roll with coco ( yet ) so I have no experience to make recommendations other than look in the diaries and find someone with success doing it that is active and send them a hiyahowyagotaminute message

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Following to learn what I can if I decide to go indoors. I have been growing outdoors in Southeast Michigan since it became legal and it's a blast. AND a battle. Lost all to disease last year and it's not looking good this year either.
Good luck straightening out the leaf issue, your grow space looks great, you too. (and your cute little dog.)

Oh, and Welcome! Lots of us have gray hair and wrinkles so you'll fit right in.

And some of us lost our hair years ago .... lol

 

[JIMKSI64]

And some of us lost our hair years ago .... lol

And some of us look like a retired skin head because of it.

 

[JIMKSI64]

fall colours on indoor plants is a deficiency unless you did it on purpose,..

Most seem to use PH swings to steer micronutrient deficiencies. TBH I could not completely follow how it works but the one guy who grows all these front cover of high times and breeder photos custom makes nutrient blends to cause a slower uptake but at the same time ups the other nutrients not targeted for deficiencies. Makes me wonder how many runs that took to pin down.

 

[Ninjadogma]

Welcome, fellow old fart! Some beautiful plants there... You didn't happen to get some water on the leaves while they were under lights, did you? Kind of looks like something that benign to me but if you're seeing it progressing you might just check that your soil pH isn't sitting too high. But to me it has that look of some condensation that got burnt off or something.

 

[Galgrows]

Hello and welcome from another old grey haired grower. I'm a lady grower like you been doing outdoor mostly for over 40yrs and went from trees to 6ft plants now so i can manage them on my own. I also do indoor grows during winter an early spring so i can take clones for outdoor. I am a real simple grower with no new techie gear other than a LED a 3x3x6ft tent and a fan LOL. And i'm growing a RS11 cross right now from seed and clones i took from my indoor grow in late winter. Good luck with your grow. No that pic is not RS11

 

[Leste]

I apologize for my reaction and especially the tone of it. I would gladly put your suggestions into practice. Blinders off, claws retracted. When time permits, please. I'm retired, I can wait. I'll put a face to the name, two faces.

Dang that little one brings me back

Little Allie, long gone, but not forgotten