Another butane question for everyone

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

Hey everyone

I have a question that I’m sure has been answered, just can’t find a good post on the topic. The problem I’m having is my extractor won’t take very much butane. I pull a vacuum and allow to chill for several hours with dewaxing column filled with dry ice/acetone. When I introduce butane (420ml cans), I can only fit about 3 before the extractor won’t take anymore. Seeing how I fit roughly 10oz of flower in the extractor, I should require a lot more butane. I wasn’t even able to use the whole third can before the the pressure equalized and the pressure in the can wasn’t enough to overcome the pressure in extractor. What I ended up doing was basically run it as an open column extractor after the pressure equalized. Where am I going wrong? How could I get more in under pressure?

something I haven’t tried; on one “how to” the author advised to pull a vacuum on the extractor for at least 15 minutes. I reached -30 (my gauge only goes that low) very quickly and therefore didn’t pull vacuum for more than 2-3 minutes because I saw no point, the extractor was at full vacuum. Should I try pulling vacuum for an extended period?

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

Also some notes to add. I cooled my butane in the freezer overnight, and then had them sitting in a dry ice/acetone bath for maybe 30 minutes prior to using. So I know the butane was very cold. The extractor itself was extremely cold as well, beyond what my thermometer could read (I think mine goes to -50F) so vaporization of the butane shouldn’t be the problem

AnselAdams · Nov 19, 2020

RoscosDaisys said:
Hey everyone

I have a question that I’m sure has been answered, just can’t find a good post on the topic. The problem I’m having is my extractor won’t take very much butane. I pull a vacuum and allow to chill for several hours with dewaxing column filled with dry ice/acetone. When I introduce butane (420ml cans), I can only fit about 3 before the extractor won’t take anymore. Seeing how I fit roughly 10oz of flower in the extractor, I should require a lot more butane. I wasn’t even able to use the whole third can before the the pressure equalized and the pressure in the can wasn’t enough to overcome the pressure in extractor. What I ended up doing was basically run it as an open column extractor after the pressure equalized. Where am I going wrong? How could I get more in under pressure?

something I haven’t tried; on one “how to” the author advised to pull a vacuum on the extractor for at least 15 minutes. I reached -30 (my gauge only goes that low) very quickly and therefore didn’t pull vacuum for more than 2-3 minutes because I saw no point, the extractor was at full vacuum. Should I try pulling vacuum for an extended period?

Welcome to The Farm!

you need to pack the lower tank in dry ice to insure the temp is always lower in the receiver tank. Butane will always "chase the cold". So if the lower tank is super cold then the warm gas (having passed through your material, etc) is expanding and increasing the pressure. If you supercool the receiving tank, the exiting butane will re-condense into a liquid. If you want you can "super-cool" the lower tank by soaking (and leaving) the tank in a mixture of dry ice and 90% or better alcohol slurry. Your extraction yield & quality will also improve if you use a dewaxing sleeve to hold your material. Make sure you pack it and the receiver in dry ice slurry for about 30 minutes before you start. Also make sure you freeze the dewaxing column with material in place for at least 24 hours before you begin to assemble your rig. The dewaxing column should be the last thing assembled so that as soon as you clamp it in place, you are ready to start your run.

Good Luck and Please be safe. Make sure you are outdoors, NOT IN A GARAGE! Remember this thing is a huge pipe-bomb. Please post some pics of your results!!

AnselAdams · Nov 19, 2020

RoscosDaisys said:
Also some notes to add. I cooled my butane in the freezer overnight, and then had them sitting in a dry ice/acetone bath for maybe 30 minutes prior to using. So I know the butane was very cold. The extractor itself was extremely cold as well, beyond what my thermometer could read (I think mine goes to -50F) so vaporization of the butane shouldn’t be the problem

Please do not put cans of butane in the freezer. The cans are not designed for that and IF they should leak (because the metal got too cold and pulled away from the weld) the fumes will be heavier than air and will sink to the floor and go god-knows-where to find an ignition source (even the compressor of the freezer) and you won't know until it all goes BOOM ☠ (remember it's colorless and odorless).

Be safe my friend. There are safer ways to get to the same result.

Be a Happy & Safe Farmer... & Good Luck

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

I appreciate all the tips! However, I’m running a closed column extractor with no recorders tank. Just a pressurized open blast essentially. I can’t freeze my extractor because it doesn’t fit in my freeze. I do freeze the material first, put it in the extractor, load the dewaxing column and let everything deep freeze for 2-3 hours. So in theory everything should be iccceeeee cold. Hard to say what actual temps are. I am able to insert a temperature probe in the chamber through the valve, and get “lo” meaning it’s below the -50F my thermometer reads. So I really don’t think the temperature is the problem :/ this will be my third run though so still dialing things in.

I take loooootttssss of precautions. The biggest one being I do it all outside in the open air, never inside. Spark resistant clothing, no electronics nearby, shoot I don’t even do a heat plate for the hot water purge, just heat my water in the house and continuously change it out as needed (keep it between 130-170)

AnselAdams · Nov 19, 2020

RoscosDaisys said:
I appreciate all the tips! However, I’m running a closed column extractor with no recorders tank. Just a pressurized open blast essentially. I can’t freeze my extractor because it doesn’t fit in my freeze. I do freeze the material first, put it in the extractor, load the dewaxing column and let everything deep freeze for 2-3 hours. So in theory everything should be iccceeeee cold. Hard to say what actual temps are. I am able to insert a temperature probe in the chamber through the valve, and get “lo” meaning it’s below the -50F my thermometer reads. So I really don’t think the temperature is the problem :/ this will be my third run though so still dialing things in.

I take loooootttssss of precautions. The biggest one being I do it all outside in the open air, never inside. Spark resistant clothing, no electronics nearby, shoot I don’t even do a heat plate for the hot water purge, just heat my water in the house and continuously change it out as needed (keep it between 130-170)

Cool, cool, cool....

-50 should be enough to pull three cans through. How big is the dewaxing column and how big is your receiving tank. What i'm getting at is this; is there enough room in the receiver tank to hold all of the butane? From my experience the receiver tank will never get more than a third to half way full.

Here is my receiver tank; I ran a stack of 4in filters (which you can see in the background) on top of which i could use any one of three size dewaxing chambers up to a half-pound. (the bottom ends with an 8in to 4" reducer to a 4"x2" pour cup).

Also included a photo where i show the receiver tank sitting inside my chill pan (it is always warm here so Dry Ice is always needed).

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

This is the extractor I’m running;

ABLAZE Stainless Steel 265-350 Gram Closed Column Tube with Outer Sleeve and Tripod

Capacity:265-350 Gram Tube With Outer Sleeve Viton Gasket w/ Stainless Screen (150 Micron) Large Silicone Mat

ablazecustom.com

So no recovery tank. Just a simply blasting colum with dewaxing sleeve.

I can fit three cans, but shouldn’t I be able to fit a lot more? If I manage to fit 200-300g of material, at 1 can per oz shouldn’t I be hitting closer to 10 cans or so?

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

Also upgraded the above extractor to include a pressure gauge, and a 50micron filter rather than the 150. The next upgrade will be a cooling/condensing coil for the butane to ensure it’s as cold as possible. For now all I have to work with is butane in the freezer, I had not heard that’s a no no but I’ll stop doing it. What do you think about butane cans sitting in a dry ice slurry? I did this on the last run because I had extra dry ice that was going to go to waste. It was only about 3” deep so the can wasnt very submerged at all, but did seem to cool them quite a bit.

AnselAdams · Nov 19, 2020

RoscosDaisys said:
This is the extractor I’m running;

ABLAZE Stainless Steel 265-350 Gram Closed Column Tube with Outer Sleeve and Tripod

Capacity:265-350 Gram Tube With Outer Sleeve Viton Gasket w/ Stainless Screen (150 Micron) Large Silicone Mat

ablazecustom.com

So no recovery tank. Just a simply blasting colum with dewaxing sleeve.

I can fit three cans, but shouldn’t I be able to fit a lot more? If I manage to fit 200-300g of material, at 1 can per oz shouldn’t I be hitting closer to 10 cans or so?

It will never happen. I started with the same ablaze rig, except without the dewaxing column. You can't build up enough pressure. The psi needed to push that much butane into a sealed container is higher than the output pressure of a single can.

What you can do is put in as much as possible, wait then open the valve a bit and then force another can or two in the top and wait for it to flush out into your pyrex dish.

RoscosDaisys said:
Also upgraded the above extractor to include a pressure gauge, and a 50micron filter rather than the 150. The next upgrade will be a cooling/condensing coil for the butane to ensure it’s as cold as possible. For now all I have to work with is butane in the freezer, I had not heard that’s a no no but I’ll stop doing it. What do you think about butane cans sitting in a dry ice slurry? I did this on the last run because I had extra dry ice that was going to go to waste. It was only about 3” deep so the can wasnt very submerged at all, but did seem to cool them quite a bit.

That is probably ok. I would really be concerned with prolonged or super chilling of the cans.

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

So do you not cool the butane at all? You’ve got a much nicer set up than I, do you have an inline cooler or just run warm butane?
By it will never happen- you referring to the 1 can/ oz target? I’m thinking my best bet would be what I did last time. Put in what I can, then run as an open blast for the remaining cans.

OR

Pressurize what cans I can fit, drain it off. Pull vacuum (*bad idea*??) introduce another 3 cans, drain, repeat. I say bad idea because In theory there is high levels of butane still in the extractor, could I safely pull a vacuum on that or do I run the risk of an explosive death? I know in the vacuum chamber I pull of trace amounts of butane but I worry the higher concentration could ignite

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

Got another question- any tips on where to find butane sold in bulk I.e one large cylinder? I can find small cans no problem, but large cylinders or refills are impossible. No one carries butane, couple gas companies weren’t familiar with what it is. Literally argued on the phone with the lady who insisted butane and propane are the same thing. I tried to politely explain that they aren’t, but she wasn’t having it lol.

JadedMarxist · Nov 19, 2020

Butane and propane are basically the same. I'm no gas tech and never personally used propane but I've been told it works the same if not better then butane.

I've also heard of hextane as being the best solvent! Again not personal experience as I'm a Canadian and it's impossible for me to get my hands on hextane.

All 3 solvents are technically from the same gas as why they are all called tane

RoscosDaisys · Nov 19, 2020

Very interesting. I’ve definitely purchased “PHO” propane honey oil at the rec shop but it’s very rare, not something I see very common. Any idea why propane isn’t used more widely for extraction? I’d assume purity ?

JadedMarxist · Nov 20, 2020

I thunk is the higher pressure almost 4x that of butane so glass tubes would not handle propane

JadedMarxist · Nov 20, 2020

Something to think about if butane in a can is supposedly pure or refined! What's used as the propellant?

So if butane is the propellant of butane how does freezing butane and equipment help as butane does not vaporize under -1 C of 30f. So how do you get the butane out of the can at underfreezing temps?

AnselAdams · Nov 20, 2020

RoscosDaisys said:
So do you not cool the butane at all? You’ve got a much nicer set up than I, do you have an inline cooler or just run warm butane?
By it will never happen- you referring to the 1 can/ oz target? I’m thinking my best bet would be what I did last time. Put in what I can, then run as an open blast for the remaining cans.

OR

Pressurize what cans I can fit, drain it off. Pull vacuum (*bad idea*??) introduce another 3 cans, drain, repeat. I say bad idea because In theory there is high levels of butane still in the extractor, could I safely pull a vacuum on that or do I run the risk of an explosive death? I know in the vacuum chamber I pull of trace amounts of butane but I worry the higher concentration could ignite

No your butane has to be cooled before hand or all you are going to do is heat up your material and work against the dewaxing column.
What i ended up doing was purchasing two of these (see below) one as an input tank, the other as a recovery tank. I pulled a full vac on one tank that had been sitting is dry ice/alcohol slurry for 45-60 minutes. Then i added 10 cans of butane. From that point on the rest is the same. Super cool the input tank and make sure it is higher than the top of your rig.

BTW, I have to keep saying; there are safer was to get the same quality output!!

Good Luck & Stay Safe

https://www.amazon.com/MASTERCOOL-6...1&keywords=butane+tank&qid=1605861400&sr=8-58

KCS · Feb 19, 2022

RoscosDaisys said:
Hey everyone

I have a question that I’m sure has been answered, just can’t find a good post on the topic. The problem I’m having is my extractor won’t take very much butane. I pull a vacuum and allow to chill for several hours with dewaxing column filled with dry ice/acetone. When I introduce butane (420ml cans), I can only fit about 3 before the extractor won’t take anymore. Seeing how I fit roughly 10oz of flower in the extractor, I should require a lot more butane. I wasn’t even able to use the whole third can before the the pressure equalized and the pressure in the can wasn’t enough to overcome the pressure in extractor. What I ended up doing was basically run it as an open column extractor after the pressure equalized. Where am I going wrong? How could I get more in under pressure?

something I haven’t tried; on one “how to” the author advised to pull a vacuum on the extractor for at least 15 minutes. I reached -30 (my gauge only goes that low) very quickly and therefore didn’t pull vacuum for more than 2-3 minutes because I saw no point, the extractor was at full vacuum. Should I try pulling vacuum for an extended period?

So this is probably not the right way of doing it but it is a way of doing it fill your container up with product add cans of butane until full attached lid and other assorted fittings probably going to get screamed at on here for that one but seems to be working for me

KCS · Feb 19, 2022

KCS said:
So this is probably not the right way of doing it but it is a way of doing it fill your container up with product add cans of butane until full attached lid and other assorted fittings probably going to get screamed at on here for that one but seems to be working for me

tobh · Feb 19, 2022

@KCS dates dude. seriously. this thread of problems is over a year old. also, your shit looks like a meth lab setup. no one wants product from an unclean setup. get your shit in order.

Another butane question for everyone

Another butane question for everyone

RoscosDaisys

RoscosDaisys

AnselAdams

AnselAdams

RoscosDaisys

AnselAdams

RoscosDaisys

ABLAZE Stainless Steel 265-350 Gram Closed Column Tube with Outer Sleeve and Tripod

RoscosDaisys

AnselAdams

ABLAZE Stainless Steel 265-350 Gram Closed Column Tube with Outer Sleeve and Tripod

RoscosDaisys

RoscosDaisys

JadedMarxist

RoscosDaisys

JadedMarxist

JadedMarxist

AnselAdams

KCS

KCS

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