Any Vertical Growers Try Or Switch To Gavitas?

dirtyshawa · Jan 21, 2016

I run a pretty simple vertical style: bare bulb; hand-watered coco; 1000w digital ballast (×2 600) w/splitter. With that being said, FUCK, all this gavita talk on the boards is alluring as hell. But, I just can't see how a gavita can improve my yields. I know it's night and day with traditional reflector based setups, and the bulb degradation isn't the same (I don't mind buying hid bulbs though), but I'm having a hard time seeing the benefits of gavitas over a vertical setup.

Have any of you guys switched from a vertical setup to gavitas or have experience with both? I'd appreciate it if you could share the respective benefits. Peace

sedate · Jan 23, 2016

dirtyshawa said:
Have any of you guys switched from a vertical setup to gavitas or have experience with both?

Uhm. There is kind of a giant difference in application between the two. If you are dropping a pair of 600's in favor of a overhead lit setup with those lil integrated reflectors then you will have some significant adjustments to make as far as layout and plant staging.

Personally, I don't think two 600's is enough bulbs for a proper vert-setup.

But why the gavita's instead of just - say - putting the 600's you have into a pair of Blockbusters or something?

fishwhistle · Jan 23, 2016

Cant use a DE bulb vert but i know capulator replaced the 1ks in his vert setup with gavita SE600s with no loss.Not sure what your setup is with 2 bulbs but if your running them off 1-1k ballast with a splitter your not getting 600 out of each of them which means those bulbs are probably not running at the right voltage and not putting out the spectrum they were designed for,probably like running 2 400s with ballast loss.

dirtyshawa · Jan 23, 2016

Hey

fishwhistle said:
Cant use a DE bulb vert but i know capulator replaced the 1ks in his vert setup with gavita SE600s with no loss.Not sure what your setup is with 2 bulbs but if your running them off 1-1k ballast with a splitter your not getting 600 out of each of them which means those bulbs are probably not running at the right voltage and not putting out the spectrum they were designed for,probably like running 2 400s with ballast loss.

Yeah you're right, I haven't seen a vert de bulb setup and I only get like 1125w or so from x2 600w bulbs (every piece of equipment is solis tek). But, I make up for it with bulb placement and a cool environment, that allows me to place my lamps very low and close to my plants. I used to run hoods, which were good, but I get a larger bouquet from this style.

sedate said:
Uhm. There is kind of a giant difference in application between the two. If you are dropping a pair of 600's in favor of a overhead lit setup with those lil integrated reflectors then you will have some significant adjustments to make as far as layout and plant staging.

Personally, I don't think two 600's is enough bulbs for a proper vert-setup.

But why the gavita's instead of just - say - putting the 600's you have into a pair of Blockbusters or something?

I can't lie, I think of going back to hoods as long as I can pull 2.5 per 1k regardless of the strain. As I said, I have a simple setup, but it's efficient. From my experience with hoods I probably couldn't get the same plant coverage I do from a vertical setup. However, you make a good point about only two 600's being short of the mark. Currently, I have an 8x8 tent ready for 4x 600w in the same setup style as above, just doubled. I guess I'm just hoping that a 1k gavita on a light mover and in a 8x8 area can out produce 4x 600w vertical hids in the same area.

sedate · Jan 24, 2016

I can't lie, I think of going back to hoods as long as I can pull 2.5 per 1k regardless of the strain.

You mean #'s? Like ~1100 grams per 1000watts? Uhm that's quite a haul to be independent of strain - and you would definitely need co2 & perfect temperatures to hit anything like that..

As I said, I have a simple setup, but it's efficient. From my experience with hoods I probably couldn't get the same plant coverage I do from a vertical setup.

Looking at your plants above I would think that you'd do a similar job with those lights over those plants in decent reflectors... your trimmed a bit at the bottom and the plants look to be all about the same height...

However, you make a good point about only two 600's being short of the mark.

I actually tried this for awhile in 2010 when I still small - honestly I never harvested much.

Currently, I have an 8x8 tent ready for 4x 600w in the same setup style as above, just doubled. I guess I'm just hoping that a 1k gavita on a light mover and in a 8x8 area can out produce 4x 600w vertical hids in the same area.

OMFG dude I would never do a single 1k on a light mover over 4x600's! That's crazy. Especially in a growtent those gavita's are really better suited to situations with 8 - 10' of growroom height...

With an 8x8 tent my professional recommendation would be to use 4x600's with each one turned down to 75%... make a trellis you will crush what you are doing vert in that space with plants that size.

You can take my word for it. I used to vert.

And now I dont...

noone88 · Jan 24, 2016

It depends on your ceiling. We have both vertical bulbs and gavita DEs in different rooms. Our sativa room uses a combination vertical bulbs and horizaton adjustawings. We fill our gavita rooms with OGs.

We Solidarity · Jan 25, 2016

I've seen pictures of some pretty awesome gavita grows on instagram that were doing massive bushes, I would be interested in running a setup like that and if needed use 315s as supplemental vert.

dirtyshawa · Jan 25, 2016

sedate said:
You mean #'s? Like ~1100 grams per 1000watts? Uhm that's quite a haul to be independent of strain - and you would definitely need co2 & perfect temperatures to hit anything like that..

Looking at your plants above I would think that you'd do a similar job with those lights over those plants in decent reflectors... your trimmed a bit at the bottom and the plants look to be all about the same height...

I actually tried this for awhile in 2010 when I still small - honestly I never harvested much.

OMFG dude I would never do a single 1k on a light mover over 4x600's! That's crazy. Especially in a growtent those gavita's are really better suited to situations with 8 - 10' of growroom height...

With an 8x8 tent my professional recommendation would be to use 4x600's with each one turned down to 75%... make a trellis you will crush what you are doing vert in that space with plants that size.

You can take my word for it. I used to vert.
View attachment 566945

And now I dont...
View attachment 566946

I don't really understand the point of the trelis and I can't imagine the work of weaving and unweaving to harvest. I do a lst very early on, but I like to let my plants flower unrestricted.

I'll definitely achieve that yield in that style above. My plants are usually 5-6 ft, 28-35 day veg from rooted clone, no co2 (unsure how it applies efficiently in a tent), my environment stays about 72-84 degrees. I deflorate my plants so I can get my lamps a tad lower than normal at times.

I'm sure I get decent yields in my setup because I rarely have stagnant plants. I don't see slow veggers that often and it's rare for me to have plants that have any yellow leaves during their life cycle. I know my yields are boosted by having happy plants from germination.

You're definitely killing it with the hoods. If I had the space raptors might be an option, but it's hard to see an improvement from a horizontal setup with the same lamps. The way I hear gavitas talked about leads me to think my yields should be increased, if I switch to them.

sedate · Jan 25, 2016

dirtyshawa said:
I don't really understand the point of the trelis

Point of trellis:

and I can't imagine the work of weaving and unweaving to harvest.

Haha naw you like pull the branches down and out as you cut them away/down from the stalk. Its really as fast as anything else you don't have to weave them...

Okay that aside.

I'll definitely achieve that yield in that style above. My plants are usually 5-6 ft, 28-35 day veg from rooted clone, no co2 (unsure how it applies efficiently in a tent), my environment stays about 72-84 degrees. I deflorate my plants so I can get my lamps a tad lower than normal at times.

I'm sure I get decent yields in my setup because I rarely have stagnant plants. I don't see slow veggers that often and it's rare for me to have plants that have any yellow leaves during their life cycle. I know my yields are boosted by having happy plants from germination.

Your plants look really healthy and nicely bushed out for that tent space. I would definitely raise your bulbs a bit if you leave them verted like that. Like bring the top of the filament level with the top of the canopy. Imma lil worried about some of the darkness around the crown of those plants.

Maybe give each plant a lil quarter-turn each day ya know.

The way I hear gavitas talked about leads me to think my yields should be increased, if I switch to them.

Uhm. I'm still not clear on why you think this in an 8x8 tent. Especially since you mentioned a single 1k on a light mover.

Gavita's are designed for height-y commercial applications with multiple overlapping light sources.

You probably do not have enough height to use one - much less use one turned all the way up.

Anyway - Gavita's are the latest bandwagon light. Every grower that dropped $500 on one insists they are the greatest. But usually I've seen them mis-applied. Like I've never seen a home grow where a larger air-cooled reflector wouldn't have been a better choice. And I've never seen one in a tent.

I really think you should put those two 600's in a decent pair of air-cooled reflectors and you'd be really pleased. Way more/more efficient coverage than a Gavita..

dirtyshawa · Jan 26, 2016

sedate said:
Point of trellis:

View attachment 567376

Haha naw you like pull the branches down and out as you cut them away/down from the stalk. Its really as fast as anything else you don't have to weave them...

View attachment 567378

Okay that aside.

Your plants look really healthy and nicely bushed out for that tent space. I would definitely raise your bulbs a bit if you leave them verted like that. Like bring the top of the filament level with the top of the canopy. Imma lil worried about some of the darkness around the crown of those plants.

Maybe give each plant a lil quarter-turn each day ya know.

Uhm. I'm still not clear on why you think this in an 8x8 tent. Especially since you mentioned a single 1k on a light mover.

Gavita's are designed for height-y commercial applications with multiple overlapping light sources.

You probably do not have enough height to use one - much less use one turned all the way up.

Anyway - Gavita's are the latest bandwagon light. Every grower that dropped $500 on one insists they are the greatest. But usually I've seen them mis-applied. Like I've never seen a home grow where a larger air-cooled reflector wouldn't have been a better choice. And I've never seen one in a tent.

I really think you should put those two 600's in a decent pair of air-cooled reflectors and you'd be really pleased. Way more/more efficient coverage than a Gavita..

Man a trellis makes the best looking canopy. I always train my plants in veg by lst'ing them and then I free them for bloom. I cut all the larf after their final stretch. I typically raise my lights after week 3, then I raise them very higher to finish. I definetly turn and shuffle my plants all the time. Nevertheless, I'm probably going to give a trellis or tomato cages a go soon.

I thought the gavita lamp had an ungodly par advantage over traditional lamps. I've seen people speak of how small the footprint of gavita lamp is @4ft, and how, the intensity was extremely high on plants underneath it. Given that, I thought, I'm vertically challenged, so why not just compensate horizontally. I concluded the gavita lamp would be very intense at 36in, but my plants should be able to withstand it, just as long as it's only for a few seconds. I was thinking could do a sog style setup with 72 3gal smarties in my 8x8 tent with a 1k gavita on a light mover. I think I could pull a zip off each 3 gal with a 2-3 week vegged clone. I don't know how much hotter 1k gavitas get than traditional lamps, but I cool two 600's in half that area. That's what I meant about a 1k gavita out yielding 4x 600 or 2 1000w ballast with 2 splitters running 4x 600 lamps.

If I can for sure yield 2.5 per 1k with my current style, then it's plausible that I can benefit from the light mover and gavita par output in double the space. Instead of, a yield of 2.5, it could be 4+ in the sea of green setup I referenced, while still only using 1000w.

sedate · Jan 27, 2016

dirtyshawa said:
I thought the gavita lamp had an ungodly par advantage over traditional lamps. I've seen people speak of how small the footprint of gavita lamp is @4ft, and how, the intensity was extremely high on plants underneath it.

Right. This is correct. Except your missing a few key points and your also assuming that more light is always better. Which is a dangerous assumption in a world of 1000w HIDs and overdriven digital ballasts.

First of all - any PAR advantage is going to be negated by the fact that to be properly utilized Gavita's need to be fairly high above the canopy. If other growers suggest they are using a Gavita to get a light-print of 4x4, I would suggest that the light isn't properly mounted above the canopy. Gavita's should be a good 5 - 6 feet above a canopy, in an array with multiple other gavita's - that are roughtly 6 - 8 feet apart.

It doesn't matter how fucking bright it is once you pull it off to the appropriate height:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

The point is even light distribution without all the supporting bullshit of giant hoods, duct work, cannon fans, etc., for commercial growers with c2 or i1 or i2 spaces that have 10 - 15ft ceilings and multi-ton A/C. The posters that are focusing on output are missing the entire forest for one fucking bright ass tree.

Oh - and since I'm discussing Gavita's I will inoculate myself from the fanboys that might seep up out of the wood-work - this is all from Gavita factory reps at CannaCon2015:

A few more things -

I concluded the gavita lamp would be very intense at 36in, but my plants should be able to withstand it, just as long as it's only for a few seconds.

No no no no no no.

The instant you start thinking of your plants as "able to withstand" you are doing it wrong. You want happy, relaxed plants with happy green waxy leaves. Not 3.5x the light level of the fucking sun for 20 seconds every two minutes or so.

That's basically borderline abusive.

You need to think more biologically and less mechanically - what would build bigger muscles if you were at the gym? 3-reps @ 300 pounds or 30-reps@145?

I was thinking could do a sog style setup with 72 3gal smarties in my 8x8 tent with a 1k gavita on a light mover. I think I could pull a zip off each 3 gal with a 2-3 week vegged clone

A single ounce? Off a 3-gallon planter? I'd get 6. If you want a bunch of lil plants 3-gallons is lots of rootzone volume. I grow in 2.5 gallon hempy buckets and I routinely hit 4 - 6oz's out of an overhead lit trellis. 1000w HPS's turned down to 60% at the ballast.

Maybe 1-gallon planters 6 - 8 inches apart. Veg for a week after clone then flip. I might shoot for 48-plants total - 12 per 4x4 square of your tent...

dirtyshawa said:
I don't know how much hotter 1k gavitas get than traditional lamps, but I cool two 600's in half that area. That's what I meant about a 1k gavita out yielding 4x 600 or 2 1000w ballast with 2 splitters running 4x 600 lamps.

Cooling isn't going to be your issue here - your issue is appropriate light-print. 1x1k Gavita - however you choose to employ it - will absolutely not out-yield 4x600w HPS's over that same space unless you purposefully fucked up your plant layout.

I get how you've built these lights up in your mind.

It reminds me a bit of the way car stereo guys used to flip over JLAudio13w7's. Like the Gavita's, they are really neat pieces of gear - but almost never appropriate for the rest of the install.

http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-subwoofer-drivers-discontinued-w7

dirtyshawa · Jan 27, 2016

sedate said:
Right. This is correct. Except your missing a few key points and your also assuming that more light is always better. Which is a dangerous assumption in a world of 1000w HIDs and overdriven digital ballasts.

First of all - any PAR advantage is going to be negated by the fact that to be properly utilized Gavita's need to be fairly high above the canopy. If other growers suggest they are using a Gavita to get a light-print of 4x4, I would suggest that the light isn't properly mounted above the canopy. Gavita's should be a good 5 - 6 feet above a canopy, in an array with multiple other gavita's - that are roughtly 6 - 8 feet apart.

It doesn't matter how fucking bright it is once you pull it off to the appropriate height:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

The point is even light distribution without all the supporting bullshit of giant hoods, duct work, cannon fans, etc., for commercial growers with c2 or i1 or i2 spaces that have 10 - 15ft ceilings and multi-ton A/C. The posters that are focusing on output are missing the entire forest for one fucking bright ass tree.

Oh - and since I'm discussing Gavita's I will inoculate myself from the fanboys that might seep up out of the wood-work - this is all from Gavita factory reps at CannaCon2015:

View attachment 567760

A few more things -

No no no no no no.

The instant you start thinking of your plants as "able to withstand" you are doing it wrong. You want happy, relaxed plants with happy green waxy leaves. Not 3.5x the light level of the fucking sun for 20 seconds every two minutes or so.

That's basically borderline abusive.

You need to think more biologically and less mechanically - what would build bigger muscles if you were at the gym? 3-reps @ 300 pounds or 30-reps@145?

A single ounce? Off a 3-gallon planter? I'd get 6. If you want a bunch of lil plants 3-gallons is lots of rootzone volume. I grow in 2.5 gallon hempy buckets and I routinely hit 4 - 6oz's out of an overhead lit trellis. 1000w HPS's turned down to 60% at the ballast.

Maybe 1-gallon planters 6 - 8 inches apart. Veg for a week after clone then flip. I might shoot for 48-plants total - 12 per 4x4 square of your tent...

Cooling isn't going to be your issue here - your issue is appropriate light-print. 1x1k Gavita - however you choose to employ it - will absolutely not out-yield 4x600w HPS's over that same space unless you purposefully fucked up your plant layout.

I get how you've built these lights up in your mind.

It reminds me a bit of the way car stereo guys used to flip over JLAudio13w7's. Like the Gavita's, they are really neat pieces of gear - but almost never appropriate for the rest of the install.

http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-subwoofer-drivers-discontinued-w7

Thanks for the info! You've given me a clearer direction. I agree with most of your insight. You are spot on when you speak of yields in a 2.5-3gal pot. If you look at the pics of my 4x8 setup you can see I'll fit about 11-13 3gal 5ft+ plants all yielding no less than a qp per regardless of strain. I'm vegging clones for about 21-28 days, but I've found strains that I've run in this style going 70+ will give me something close to a half unit, true blueberry was one that comes to mind.

The 72 3gals would help me keep a few strains going at once, which is something I'm rarely able to do by myself. I stated an oz per plant as an average, because I was thinking of a perpetual sog, 16 plants in one 4x4 section, of say alien, then sherbet, then cookies in another etc. I'm okay with 16 zips every two weeks or 72 zips from 2250w. It's not the greatest and I definitely want more, but that's more than enough when my expenses will be about 1/16th of what's produced. I'll get that for sure as it, but I thought I'd do much better with gavita. I started with hoods, but I've found greater benefit in not using them at all. I also enjoy then benefit I get from the 1000w ballast splitter. If you look at the pics I posted you can see the different spectrums of my lamps. During the flowering stretch I run mh+hps bulbs until week 4-5, then straight red to finish. Anyway, I think I should pass on the gavitas and stick with what is working pretty well. Thanks again for your insight and feedback!

gettogro · Jan 31, 2016

fishwhistle said:
Cant use a DE bulb vert but i know capulator replaced the 1ks in his vert setup with gavita SE600s with no loss.Not sure what your setup is with 2 bulbs but if your running them off 1-1k ballast with a splitter your not getting 600 out of each of them which means those bulbs are probably not running at the right voltage and not putting out the spectrum they were designed for,probably like running 2 400s with ballast loss.

Gavita de bulbs burn fine verticaly

fishwhistle · Jan 31, 2016

Thats so cool that you were able to rig that bro and i dig it!Maybe i should have said they werent DESIGNED to be run that way,lol,never say never.

dirtyshawa · Feb 2, 2016

gettogro said:
Gavita de bulbs burn fine verticalyView attachment 569064 View attachment 569065 View attachment 569066

Hell yeah! Are you just running the gavita lamp...what type of ballast are you running?

noone88 · Feb 2, 2016

gettogro said:
Gavita de bulbs burn fine verticaly

Damn, how did you do that?

fishwhistle · Feb 2, 2016

noone88 said:
Damn, how did you do that?

VERY CAREFULLY,lol,those bare wires are carrying some voltage!

noone88 · Feb 2, 2016

fishwhistle said:
VERY CAREFULLY,lol,those bare wires are carrying some voltage!

Jeeeeeesussssss I just saw that wire that connects to the other end.

Pimples · Jan 8, 2018

sedate said:
Right. This is correct. Except your missing a few key points and your also assuming that more light is always better. Which is a dangerous assumption in a world of 1000w HIDs and overdriven digital ballasts.

First of all - any PAR advantage is going to be negated by the fact that to be properly utilized Gavita's need to be fairly high above the canopy. If other growers suggest they are using a Gavita to get a light-print of 4x4, I would suggest that the light isn't properly mounted above the canopy. Gavita's should be a good 5 - 6 feet above a canopy, in an array with multiple other gavita's - that are roughtly 6 - 8 feet apart.

It doesn't matter how fucking bright it is once you pull it off to the appropriate height:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

The point is even light distribution without all the supporting bullshit of giant hoods, duct work, cannon fans, etc., for commercial growers with c2 or i1 or i2 spaces that have 10 - 15ft ceilings and multi-ton A/C. The posters that are focusing on output are missing the entire forest for one fucking bright ass tree.

Oh - and since I'm discussing Gavita's I will inoculate myself from the fanboys that might seep up out of the wood-work - this is all from Gavita factory reps at CannaCon2015:

View attachment 567760

A few more things -

No no no no no no.

The instant you start thinking of your plants as "able to withstand" you are doing it wrong. You want happy, relaxed plants with happy green waxy leaves. Not 3.5x the light level of the fucking sun for 20 seconds every two minutes or so.

That's basically borderline abusive.

You need to think more biologically and less mechanically - what would build bigger muscles if you were at the gym? 3-reps @ 300 pounds or 30-reps@145?

A single ounce? Off a 3-gallon planter? I'd get 6. If you want a bunch of lil plants 3-gallons is lots of rootzone volume. I grow in 2.5 gallon hempy buckets and I routinely hit 4 - 6oz's out of an overhead lit trellis. 1000w HPS's turned down to 60% at the ballast.

Maybe 1-gallon planters 6 - 8 inches apart. Veg for a week after clone then flip. I might shoot for 48-plants total - 12 per 4x4 square of your tent...

Cooling isn't going to be your issue here - your issue is appropriate light-print. 1x1k Gavita - however you choose to employ it - will absolutely not out-yield 4x600w HPS's over that same space unless you purposefully fucked up your plant layout.

I get how you've built these lights up in your mind.

It reminds me a bit of the way car stereo guys used to flip over JLAudio13w7's. Like the Gavita's, they are really neat pieces of gear - but almost never appropriate for the rest of the install.

http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-subwoofer-drivers-discontinued-w7

Damn this is one good post

Pimples · Jan 8, 2018

gettogro said:
Gavita de bulbs burn fine verticalyView attachment 569064 View attachment 569065 View attachment 569066

What the fuk? Wow. That looks dangerous.

Any Vertical Growers Try Or Switch To Gavitas?

Any Vertical Growers Try Or Switch To Gavitas?

dirtyshawa

sedate

fishwhistle

dirtyshawa

sedate

noone88

We Solidarity

dirtyshawa

sedate

dirtyshawa

sedate

dirtyshawa

gettogro

fishwhistle

dirtyshawa

noone88

fishwhistle

noone88

Pimples

Pimples

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