Anyone know why my seedlings are leggy

NapkinB · Apr 18, 2022

Hey, seedlings are kinda leggy There’s way too many of them in the tent and the light is a little wonky so I’m guessing they’re trying to bend to the higher end of the spectrum because they also seem a little bendy. I have an off brand led grow light called toad and don’t really know the strength of the led light. I’m not sure if I should put it closer because I don’t want to kill the seedlings. I’m also too broke to afford a light meter. Any suggestions? I tried the lux meter app on the phone. I’m not sure how accurate they are. All the apps read different.

NapkinB · Apr 18, 2022

NapkinB said:
Hey, seedlings are kinda leggy There’s way too many of them in the tent and the light is a little wonky so I’m guessing they’re trying to bend to the higher end of the spectrum because they also seem a little bendy. I have an off brand led grow light called toad and don’t really know the strength of the led light. I’m not sure if I should put it closer because I don’t want to kill the seedlings. I’m also too broke to afford a light meter. Any suggestions? I tried the lux meter app on the phone. I’m not sure how accurate they are. All the apps read different.

Also should probably mention I filled the solo cups with soil about 1-2 inches after they grew past the top of the cup so they might not seem as long but they are.

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

They aren’t to me but genet and spectrum are the major determining factors

Zpotato · Apr 18, 2022

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

Zpotato said:

just gonna call a spade a spade here. This guy is clueless and promotes absolute bullshit…. Let me explain.

light intensity is measured in ppfd (photosynthetic photon flux density) if it’s the same it does NOT matter a lick the height of the light…. How far away is the sun? See the difference in a window I believe to be this. Windows I believe tend to filter more if the UV and low end of the blue spectrum out while not doing so with the far red and high end of the red spectrum.

i have yet to see a seedling here or in my grows stretch from lack of light but maybe 1 time.

they stretch due to the photomorphology of the plants based on the spectrum provided and genetics.

While this bafoons intentions are good his information and advice is just that of a bafoon

dirtyoldman · Apr 18, 2022

NapkinB said:
Hey, seedlings are kinda leggy There’s way too many of them in the tent and the light is a little wonky so I’m guessing they’re trying to bend to the higher end of the spectrum because they also seem a little bendy. I have an off brand led grow light called toad and don’t really know the strength of the led light. I’m not sure if I should put it closer because I don’t want to kill the seedlings. I’m also too broke to afford a light meter. Any suggestions? I tried the lux meter app on the phone. I’m not sure how accurate they are. All the apps read different.

I'm not really techy guy when it comes to lamps and light and all that. I'm more like the local farmer with practical solutions that work. I aced college math but really struggled with chemistry and physics. Still can't make heads or tails of much of it. I leave the spectrum talk and logarithms and stuff like that to the nerds. Not that "nerd" has a negative meaning. I'm a different type of nerd. I solve this problem by always leaving space in the cup to add more soil later. With a teaspoon. There is a danger they will fall over when they get too leggy. And then the stem rots. I've seen that before. What's the other solution if they still get leggy? I tape toothpics together and stake them. Worked really well with my last batch of seedlings.

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

dirtyoldman said:
I'm not really techy guy when it comes to lamps and light and all that. I'm more like the local farmer with practical solutions that work. I aced college math but really struggled with chemistry and physics. Still can't make heads or tails of much of it. I leave the spectrum talk and logarithms and stuff like that to the nerds. Not that "nerd" has a negative meaning. I'm a different type of nerd. I solve this problem by always leaving space in the cup to add more soil later. With a teaspoon. There is a danger they will fall over when they get too leggy. And then the stem rots. I've seen that before. What's the other solution if they still get leggy? I tape toothpics together and stake them. Worked really well with my last batch of seedlings.

Agree and absolutely works.

Try a blue leaning fluorescent or led cheap ones that are over 4000k Color temp. Out under a 6000k they will stay very squat as blue will promote leafy growth which is why you use it for things like lettuce. A seedling doesn’t need tons of light intensity.

under my HLG 600 3000k Color temp my seedlings were as lanky as they come and I did just what you recommended to combat this phenomena.

Blastfact · Apr 18, 2022

Lights to far away and it's the wrong spectrum. I keep my seedlings from day one under a HLG 100 V2 4000K light for at least 3 weeks if not four weeks. Light keeps the stretch down and packs nodes as tight as a deck of playing cards.

Day 1 of new seedlings this morning.

Zpotato · Apr 18, 2022

Aqua Man said:
just gonna call a spade a spade here. This guy is clueless and promotes absolute bullshit…. Let me explain.

light intensity is measured in ppfd (photosynthetic photon flux density) if it’s the same it does NOT matter a lick the height of the light…. How far away is the sun? See the difference in a window I believe to be this. Windows I believe tend to filter more if the UV and low end of the blue spectrum out while not doing so with the far red and high end of the red spectrum.

i have yet to see a seedling here or in my grows stretch from lack of light but maybe 1 time.

they stretch due to the photomorphology of the plants based on the spectrum provided and genetics.

While this bafoons intentions are good his information and advice is just that of a bafoon

The sun's rays lose intensity with distance according to the laws of physics (inverse square law). They don't originate from your window they originate from the sun so the difference in intensity from the sun to your window compared intensity from the sun to your window PLUS 1 meter is not perceivable. He says later on that with modern LED and HPS you don't need to have them close (which you probably didn't see)

With so many posts you shouldn't be spouting this nonsense all you need is a PAR meter and a light and you will see that moving the light higher lowers the light reaching the canopy. With your logic i could hang my lamps 2 meters above the canopy with no negatives.

And "this bafoon" is Robert Pavlis is a well-known speaker, and educator with over 40 years of gardening experience. He is the author of Building Natural Ponds, and publishes the popular gardening blogs; GardenMyths.com and GardenFundamentals.com. As the owner and head gardener of Aspen Grove Gardens, a six-acre botanical garden, he grows 3,000 varieties of plants.
1 get a decent light
2 remove heat mat
3 get a fan
4 watch P levels
sound advice

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

Zpotato said:
The sun's rays lose intensity with distance according to the laws of physics (inverse square law). They don't originate from your window they originate from the sun so the difference in intensity from the sun to your window compared intensity from the sun to your window PLUS 1 meter is not perceivable. He says later on that with modern LED and HPS you don't need to have them close (which you probably didn't see)

With so many posts you shouldn't be spouting this nonsense all you need is a PAR meter and a light and you will see that moving the light higher lowers the light reaching the canopy. With your logic i could hang my lamps 2 meters above the canopy with no negatives.

And "this bafoon" is Robert Pavlis is a well-known speaker, and educator with over 40 years of gardening experience. He is the author of Building Natural Ponds, and publishes the popular gardening blogs; GardenMyths.com and GardenFundamentals.com. As the owner and head gardener of Aspen Grove Gardens, a six-acre botanical garden, he grows 3,000 varieties of plants.
1 get a decent light
2 remove heat mat
3 get a fan
4 watch P levels
sound advice

Invite him here for a conversation and you may just change your mins and so will he with this 1960 bro science.

question… how many plants you see here in a window compared to LED and other?

Now why do you think you still see posts with seedlings that are not in a window still being asked almost daily?

what part of glass filters light do you not understand.

ok I’m the interest of not making you look foolish I’ll drop this here and now but if you care to debate this I can bring you the information you both are missing or at the very least misapplying and the number one reason is exactly that he is a gardener referring to mistakes of gardening not indoor cannabis growing and therefore is lacking knowledge in areas of spectrum and photomorphology.

like I said I have ever only seen possibly 1 time a cannabis seedling stretch due to light intensity….. and it was in a window.

what he is conveying used to be considered science and has been long showin to be false.

So your call here man. No shame in being wrong and that’s how we learn… debate. I just get the feeling your out to be right rather than have the correct info and will take offence once I show the error of this and studies that support such

Shaded_One · Apr 18, 2022

"I have an off brand led grow light called toad and don’t really know the strength of the led light" I think once we know the answer to this question we will get a better understanding of what his issue is. Both of you are correct. You need both spectrum AND PPFD to properly veg a plant. Judging from this listing I'm going to say 80w is probably a good estimate of what he's working with.

Amazon.com

With that being said...these seedling don't even look that bad. Light just probably needs to be a tad bit closer as @Zpotato mentioned.

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

Zpotato said:
. He says later on that with modern LED and HPS you don't need to have them close (which you probably didn't see

Maybe you need to research it? I watched about 6 min and he clearly says the need to be close? When the fuck did close become a measurment of light Intensity?

cmon man how can you not even see that

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

Shaded_One said:
"I have an off brand led grow light called toad and don’t really know the strength of the led light" I think once we know the answer to this question we will get a better understanding of what his issue is. Both of you are correct. You need both spectrum AND PPFD to properly veg a plant. Judging from this listing I'm going to say 80w is probably a good estimate of what he's working with.

Amazon.com

With that being said...these seedling don't even look that bad. Light just probably needs to be a tad bit closer as @Zpotato mentioned.

It’s all in the ppfd and they need very little at seeding stage. even a 20w led will easily provide enough. The spectrum however will make a huge difference. I have seen ppl burning stretching seedlings under a blurple with only the red switch on.

im in the middle of starting a business providing grow systems but in the next few months I’ll break the science down into an easy to read article with reference info to studies.

most don’t seem to realize that much of science is theoretical and truths but not all of it is factual and therefore sciences changes, progresses and always will.

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

One very key word anyone may want to read up on is photomorphology

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

Ok fuck it here.

Zpotato said:
With so many posts you shouldn't be spouting this nonsense all you need is a PAR meter and a light and you will see that moving the light higher lowers the light reaching the canopy. With your logic i could hang my lamps 2 meters above the canopy with no negatives.

yes Bafoon you can hang your lights from a tree in the neighborhood drinks yard if your plants are still getting the ppfd they need… re read my post. HEIGHT DIES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE STILL GETTING THE PPFD as I stated in my first post. Where did I say otherwise?

Zpotato said:
The sun's rays lose intensity with distance according to the laws of physics (inverse square law). They don't originate from your window they originate from the sun so the difference in intensity from the sun to your window compared intensity from the sun to your window PLUS 1 meter is not perceivable

Well we are talking about LED so yes it is very perceivable as you just argued up above.

The least thing I need is you to try and educate this grade 9 grad (yes myself) in the inverse square law. my comment had to do with glass filtering photons and spectrume. my comment was intended to show that distance is irrelevant it’s the ppfd at the plants that matter.

Zpotato said:
He says later on that with modern LED and HPS you don't need to have them close (which you probably didn't see

as of 6 min he most certainly said they need to be close…. WRONG it’s all in the PPFD.

man’s again what kind of measurement is close and not as close? I’m not familiar with those units of measurement

I am awaiting your decision here

Zpotato · Apr 18, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Ok fuck it here.

yes Bafoon you can hang your lights from a tree in the neighborhood drinks yard if your plants are still getting the ppfd they need… re read my post. HEIGHT DIES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE STILL GETTING THE PPFD as I stated in my first post. Where did I say otherwise?

Well we are talking about LED so yes it is very perceivable as you just argued up above.

The least thing I need is you to try and educate this grade 9 grad (yes myself) in the inverse square law. my comment had to do with glass filtering photons and spectrume. my comment was intended to show that distance is irrelevant it’s the ppfd at the plants that matter.

as of 6 min he most certainly said they need to be close…. WRONG it’s all in the PPFD.

man’s again what kind of measurement is close and not as close? I’m not familiar with those units of measurement

I am awaiting your decision here

Someone once said "Never argue with an idiot because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

Aqua Man · Apr 18, 2022

Zpotato said:
Someone once said "Never argue with an idiot because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

One of the most constructive arguments I have seen in a while smh. A masterpiece showcase of how many make a choice not learn. its honestly a shame because we may both have learning something from a constructive debat.

instead it goes to deflection of a grade school level because no valid argument can be given and thus no debate.

You know when I give advice, share a point of view or hold a belief that I express…. I will never give up the chance to debate the validity of my statements for the sheer fact that I may learn something. Those that know me, well know this fact and that I most certainly have my reasons for any I express.

Its a shame you will not and choose to deflect in such an obviout manner. But know this I also do my best not to hold a grudge as it also may rob me of an opportunity to learn so no hard feelings on this.

Just know I will always defend my views and opinions because I am not just regurgitating information but rather feel I have an understanding of it. Always willing to hear what others may put forth but not just accept a conflicting point of view because it was said without a valid argument behind it. So if you want to call me out on here or anything in the future please be prepared to debate it

Anthem · Apr 18, 2022

Zpotato said:
Someone once said "Never argue with an idiot because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

Is is Zpotato. I am sorry but you are trying to argue without the knowledge to do so. The plant requires X amount of PPFD a day. This number gradually goes up as the size and the health of the plant increases. As stated you could have a light next door provide the correct account of PPFD for the plant. The plant does not care where the light is place it cares about the PPFD and spectrum. I rarely comment about spectrum because I use full spectrum LED's. But again it all has to do with PPFD and spectrum. So I am afraid to say it but to be honest you are the one that is wrong in this conversation.
Anthem OUT!!!

Madbud · Apr 18, 2022

Hey @NapkinB you done right leaving room in the cups, they look fine. Toad? 100W blurple? About 30” on veg, 14-18 hours on. You got this.

NapkinB · Apr 18, 2022

Madbud said:
Hey @NapkinB you done right leaving room in the cups, they look fine. Toad? 100W blurple? About 30” on veg, 14-18 hours on. You got this.

Yes it says 1000w but it’s probably closer to 100. Never know what the actual wattage would be unless I got a meter but that’s expensive. Have it on 18/6 18 in away right now

Anyone know why my seedlings are leggy

Anyone know why my seedlings are leggy

NapkinB

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