Anyone successfully grow organically outdoors without Neem?

RenaissanceBrah · Apr 25, 2020

I've heard on the Mass Medical Strains podcast that cannabis is systemic (soaks up everything from the soil), and even though neem is safe to eat, no studies have been done on smoking it and it is deemed unhealthy by some.

I wanted to use coot's traditional 1/1/1 recipe, however leaving the neem out of the amendments, and for my IPM using Essential Oil sprays, companion plants, and mosquito netting (to protect against budworm here in SoCal).

Would my plants have a fighting chance of surviving to harvest without getting overrun by pests without the neem or karanja meal?

Greatlakes · Apr 26, 2020

I do not use neem myself or any other pesticide for that matter. When I get aphids or any other unwanted pest I but benificial insects to kill it. Like lady bugs or green lacewing larvae.

BudBogart · May 1, 2020

I’ve grown outdoors forever. Never used neem.

Growing_Garbage · May 1, 2020

Been ok without neem, and also had some get pretty chewed up. I like to put a few outside to grow wild in the summer and don't even feed em. If you stay on top of it you can do it.
Not sure where you are humidity wise but I can usually spray off the plants from the underside a few times a week and keep aphids and mites at bay. I def don't use any pesticides once buds start up anyway. Beneficials and companion plants are what you really need, keep the predators and some prey around too. Give the bad ones some marigolds to eat and the ladybugs come in, basil and cilantro around the plants to keep the bad ones away and make your buds more trichy too.

Oh gosh · May 2, 2020

Tried the mosquito netting with a 1 inch pvc frame as an experiment. Wind and access proved to be a pain. Still had worms.

Docta Haze · May 30, 2020

RenaissanceBrah said:
I've heard on the Mass Medical Strains podcast that cannabis is systemic (soaks up everything from the soil), and even though neem is safe to eat, no studies have been done on smoking it and it is deemed unhealthy by some.

I wanted to use coot's traditional 1/1/1 recipe, however leaving the neem out of the amendments, and for my IPM using Essential Oil sprays, companion plants, and mosquito netting (to protect against budworm here in SoCal).

Would my plants have a fighting chance of surviving to harvest without getting overrun by pests without the neem or karanja meal?

I think you should keep the neem meal! I've been listening to Mass Medical since I came across his Putang. The idea of a mentally therapeutic strain is extremely exciting to me. I just can't justify the seed cost yet. That said, I also listen to clackamas (Jim) coot, and he had a recent interview (here @41:40min) on instagram with Aaron the grower. He mentions the important distinction between neem meal, neem oils, and azadirachtin. Basically, the neem tree has been used medicinally for thousands of years, and has been demonstrably safe for human use/consumption. What isn't safe is pure azadirachtin, or neem oils extracted with dangerous solvents.

Therefore, avoid using concentrated azadirachtin and avoid using neem oil that isn't cold pressed, but do use neem meal!

Greatlakes · May 30, 2020

The reason I dont use neem especially in the soil is because neem is known to not only be a pesticide but an antiseptic and anti fungual.
I can't seem to find answers on if it will kill benificial bacteria and fungus.
I use nematodes for soil pests and I guess I wouldn't be against doing a foliar of neem.... but still I would never use it in the soil.

Docta Haze · May 30, 2020

Greatlakes said:
The reason I dont use neem especially in the soil is because neem is known to not only be a pesticide but an antiseptic and anti fungual.
I can't seem to find answers on if it will kill benificial bacteria and fungus.
I use nematodes for soil pests and I guess I wouldn't be against doing a foliar of neem.... but still I would never use it in the soil.

Great point! It would be so interesting to see a comparison of soil microbiology in a mix of soil with and without neem meal. I use neem meal because it is comes from a therapeutic plant, it's a good soil conditioner for an ammendment (aeration), it's affordable, and provides a decently balanced NPK (6-1-2).

I would be more interested in using it outdoors to prevent pathogenic invasions (bugs, fungus) - and at the same time I'd hope that the micro-organisms would adapt to the neem and still perform their functions. This means letting the mix sit and treating it with microbe-teas before using it could be important.

the rrock · May 30, 2020

been growing indoor and outdoor since 79 never used neem,there are much better products if insects appear
and dont believe everything you read or listen to on the intranet(mass med)lol>

Docta Haze · May 30, 2020

the rrock said:
been growing indoor and outdoor since 79 never used neem,there are much better products if insects appear
and dont believe everything you read or listen to on the intranet(mass med)lol>

Do you like to grow with organic inputs too? What are some of your favorite inputs? I'm focusing on composting and vermicomposting now more than anything, and I've just started using malted barley.

I've been waiting for mass med's comments to be corroborated by other people on forums or elsewhere. I've yet to find anything confriming the whole spiel of "putang saves lives" lol - I do believe, however, that a strain could be bred to stress the psyche in such a way that it'll result in therapeutic relief from anxiety and depression. I've experienced this myself from edibles and shrooms, but not yet from cannabis flower.

wtfdaemon · Jun 1, 2020

Greatlakes said:
The reason I dont use neem especially in the soil is because neem is known to not only be a pesticide but an antiseptic and anti fungual.
I can't seem to find answers on if it will kill benificial bacteria and fungus.
I use nematodes for soil pests and I guess I wouldn't be against doing a foliar of neem.... but still I would never use it in the soil.

I'm the same way, use it foliar-only for my outdoor grows and it works great.

Anyone successfully grow organically outdoors without Neem?

Anyone successfully grow organically outdoors without Neem?

RenaissanceBrah

Greatlakes

BudBogart

Growing_Garbage

Oh gosh

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