Are Black lights even worth it?

Zill · Nov 22, 2024

Og,

Ultra violet is classified according UV light wavelength ranges, UVA, UVB and UVC. UVA does nothing, too weak. UVB is energetic enough that during evolution produces complex organic molecules that are sacrificed to absorb the UV energy. UVC destroys plant tissue.

I was a graduate student at Univ of MD and helped a fellow graduate student with his research. John illuminated a statically relevant number of cannabis plants in a controlled USDA greenhouse, Beltsville, MD. His plants were illuminated with UVB.

UVB increased terps and cannabinoids between 25-30% over control plants. The kicker is that John never grew buds it’s all foliar. I’m here to tell you those fan leaves were as potent as any bud I have have smoked.

If you are interested and can send John’s original research article and a summary I made for us home farmers. It works and it earned John a Ph.D.

Zill.

OgBoogs730 · Nov 22, 2024

Zill said:
Og,

Ultra violet is classified according UV light wavelength ranges, UVA, UVB and UVC. UVA does nothing, too weak. UVB is energetic enough that during evolution produces complex organic molecules that are sacrificed to absorb the UV energy. UVC destroys plant tissue.

I was a graduate student at Univ of MD and helped a fellow graduate student with his research. John illuminated a statically relevant number of cannabis plants in a controlled USDA greenhouse, Beltsville, MD. His plants were illuminated with UVB.

UVB increased terps and cannabinoids between 25-30% over control plants. The kicker is that John never grew buds it’s all foliar. I’m here to tell you those fan leaves were as potent as any bud I have have smoked.

If you are interested and can send John’s original research article and a summary I made for us home farmers. It works and it earned John a Ph.D.

Zill.

Thanks for the reply and yes definitely would like to check out his research

Zill · Nov 22, 2024

Og,

Here is a summary of John’s article I condensed for PooTee.

Have at it. Don’t hesitate to reach out with questions.

Zill · Nov 22, 2024

One other tidbit - Check out Amazon. They sell UVB lights for reptiles. It’s about $25.00.

cpurola · Nov 22, 2024

Zill said:
One other tidbit - Check out Amazon. They sell UVB lights for reptiles. It’s about $25.00.

So, have you used it?

Blastfact · Nov 22, 2024

cpurola said:
So, have you used it?

The Amazon reptile lights don't haver much UV. And degrades very quick. We have a male red ear slider turtle in a 75 gal tank we've had for near 20 years and keep those lights for him so he can bask under it on his rock pile. You can see the UV drop off quickly with a my Apogee epar meter. Most people put them in and run them until they burn out not knowing the UV is practically nothing after a few weeks. We fell victim to the lie until I got the Apogee epar meter. Now we only put the UV lights in when he is shedding some of his shell or if he gets a bit of algae on his shell. Otherwise they are pretty useless. Bubba the turtle does not care what light we have for him on his basking spot.

Zill · Nov 22, 2024

Absolutely Balst!

That’s why if you decide to illuminate with UVB you should have a decent uv light meter or replace the bulb before the expiration date. They do age and need regular replacement.

Blastfact · Nov 22, 2024

Zill said:
Absolutely Balst!

That’s why if you decide to illuminate with UVB you should have a decent uv light meter or replace the bulb before the expiration date. They do age and need regular replacement.

UV is such a failure on so many fronts it's not funny. Hospitals use to be full of UV lighting. A hospital I worked at had it in all patient rooms, portable lighting systems and in all the air handlers. Turns out it was damn near useless, dangerous and extremely expensive and time consuming to maintain.

Newty · Nov 22, 2024

Zill said:
One other tidbit - Check out Amazon. They sell UVB lights for reptiles. It’s about $25.00.

I keep reptiles and for the ones that require UVB, I always used the florescent tube style with no issues.
I had a bulb that burnt out, I always keep a couple extra on hand and order 1 everytime 1 goes out.
When I went to order, I seen LED UVB for reptiles advertised so I thought they would be more efficient and a higher quailty of UVB, that was not the case......
The bearded dragon we decided to use it for ended up with a D3 deficiency, luckily we caught it before MBD.
Switched back to the florescent tube immediately, she recovered well and not a problem since.

I still have the UVB LED, wish I had equipment to test spectrum to see if if has any at all.

2Water · Nov 23, 2024

Zill said:
Og,

Ultra violet is classified according UV light wavelength ranges, UVA, UVB and UVC. UVA does nothing, too weak. UVB is energetic enough that during evolution produces complex organic molecules that are sacrificed to absorb the UV energy. UVC destroys plant tissue.

I was a graduate student at Univ of MD and helped a fellow graduate student with his research. John illuminated a statically relevant number of cannabis plants in a controlled USDA greenhouse, Beltsville, MD. His plants were illuminated with UVB.

UVB increased terps and cannabinoids between 25-30% over control plants. The kicker is that John never grew buds it’s all foliar. I’m here to tell you those fan leaves were as potent as any bud I have have smoked.

If you are interested and can send John’s original research article and a summary I made for us home farmers. It works and it earned John a Ph.D.

Zill.

What was your methodology of testing UVA?

Zill · Nov 23, 2024

Hey 2 water,

Nothing special. It’s an energy beam measured by an electronic device similar to camera light meters. We used meters sensitive to the UV wavelengths.

2Water · Nov 23, 2024

Zill said:
Hey 2 water,

Nothing special. It’s an energy beam measured by an electronic device similar to camera light meters. We used meters sensitive to the UV wavelengths.

No, I mean duration of use, did you measure terpene profiles, was there a measure for extractable resin, was there a record of secondary cannabinoids?, etc....

Almost all studies I've read (specifically older ones such as the one you referenced) only calculated results based off of yield and thc.

My understanding, and the extrapolation from Dr Bugbee's video is that UVA can be as effective as UVB, but with higher intensity and duration. (The sunburn effect) We can look at studies that break down how the plant photosynthesizes the different wavelengths but since cannabis is still schedule 1 here, we are still decades behind other countries. The Dutch have long touted the benefits of UVA in thier greenhouses, in Australia there has been extensive research on it in terms of affects on hemp production. Since Australia recieve a higher concentration of UVB and UVA, they have found that traditional hemp crops planted elsewhere would harvest under legal levels, but same cuts exhibited higher cannabinoid levels grown under thier sun. There is a pretty in depth post on RIU from an Australian light company (yes, I know marketing gimmicks....), but he actually did side by side comparisons with full testing and posted the results.

the truth of the matter is that even if you could get all the science correct, it should just be a tool to get you familiar and set up for your grow space. The anecdotal 10 to 20% increases would only be hypothetically noticed if you have every other aspect of growing figured out, ie: drying, curing, storage, etc.

Zill · Nov 23, 2024

2water,

It was a government sponsored research program. Intermediate profiles and end products were followed during growth. The USDA at Beltsville had at their disposal amazing limitless resources including state of the art analytical instruments. Gas and HPL chromatography was rampant.

Do what you want. I would opt for UVB. It works.

2Water · Nov 23, 2024

Zill said:
2water,

It was a government sponsored research program. Intermediate profiles and end products were followed during growth. The USDA at Beltsville had at their disposal amazing limitless resources including state of the art analytical instruments. Gas and HPL chromatography was rampant.

Do what you want. I would opt for UVB. It works.

Im sorry if I came off stand offish, since you were there I wanted to get some clarifications on what data you were looking for specifically. I'm glad you want to stick to 1hr a day of UVB, when I see new growers struggling with thier lights, I would want them to understand more or offer places to look for information rather than "well I prefer this mentality." I was hoping to have a more engaged conversation with a scientist that has done the work

2Water · Nov 23, 2024

By the way, I'm not trying to argue, just trying to conversate. I'm not saying UVA over UVB or saying UVB is not beneficial, I fully acknowledge the controlled UVB is VERY effective, but also easier for home growers to mess up.

UVA since it is less volatile is an should be a beginner friendly alternative is used correctly. If you would like to discuss I would be all ears, but to quickly dismiss UVA as ineffective wouldn't be scientific when I specifically mentioned other countries and tests that have been done as well

2Water · Nov 23, 2024

Zill said:
Og,

Here is a summary of John’s article I condensed for PooTee.

Have at it. Don’t hesitate to reach out with questions.

Zill, where is your data to support your opening argument that UVA is not effective to plants? Did you even use a control with UVA supplementation to test? If so, what were those results and what methods (time/intensity) were used?

2Water · Nov 23, 2024

And I'm going to apologize one more time then smoke and call it a day. It offends me when someone confuses bias with science, especially when they are using "scientific" credentials to display only bias without proper use of the scientific method. That helps noone in my opinion. Sorry for the rants, I'll excuse myself

Zill · Nov 24, 2024

2water,

Cheese and crackers! This is a great conversation.

One can easily conduct a lit search for effects of the three uv ranges on single cell and complex organisms. It comes down to the light energy capable of causing cell damage and is a resulting mutation product worthy of a becoming a constituent. UVB was selected for the study due to its affect on cells tissue and mutagenic capability.

OG asked if there was a benefit to potency/flavor by irradiating plants with UV. Yes there is. Read the paper.

cpurola · Nov 24, 2024

Hi @Zill. Do you use UVB lights?
And, I found this website, what do you think?
Solacure

Zill · Nov 24, 2024

Hi Cpurola,

That article is not bad. He also references use of 25W reptile UVB bulb.

I grow outside. But if I grew in tents I work definitely be augmenting lighting with UV. It works. Granted, unless you grow an identical strain with out uv as control you may not be able to discern from treated. One good bio assay - smoke a fan leaf. Like I said, helping out in the greenhouse lots of leaves “fell” to floor. Those leaves were as potent as any flower Bud.

Are Black lights even worth it?

Are Black lights even worth it?

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Are Black lights even worth it?

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