Are fox farm products declining in quality?

thomas2402k · May 14, 2024

As some have pointed in out my previous thread this bag of fox farm happy frog soil that I have looks extra woody. I have 0 input on this as this is my first grow, and first bag of HF. So question is have any of you that have been faithful to fox farm noticed any decline in their overall quality? What should a “normal” bag of HF look like?

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DougV · May 14, 2024

I’ve used them for three years. Haven’t seen a difference, and I use a lot.

Mixing dry ingredients naturally allows larger particles to percolate upward. Watering does the same. This could be what you’re seeing.

Stokes · May 14, 2024

Absolutely.

Their soils are hit or miss now, their nutrients have always been watered down sludge. Never met a single grower that went from a product like nectar of the gods or foop to big bloom and was like shit yeah

Their soil at one time was a very solid beginner friendly amended soil. Used it exclusively for a long time. After seeing the wood chips that ive seen on here these past few weeks i’ll never recommend it again. Coast of Maine.

BB22 · May 14, 2024

I’m pretty new to the game. This is a bag I recently opened. This one looks pretty good too me.

If you were looking to reuse the soil after an indoor grow, what would you amend with? Would you bother? Thanks

Stokes · May 14, 2024

BB22 said:
I’m pretty new to the game. This is a bag I recently opened. This one looks pretty good too me.

If you were looking to reuse the soil after an indoor grow, what would you amend with? Would you bother? Thanks

View attachment 2171419

That looks pretty good from here. Thats what i used to expect

Mothman · May 14, 2024

I have a theory that when the cascade of states legalized personal use and personal grows, FF (and maybe others but especially FF) had to grab another gear in production to stay in the game. And here we are.

Mothman · May 14, 2024

BB22 said:
If you were looking to reuse the soil after an indoor grow, what would you amend with? Would you bother? Thanks

I buy commercial soil so I don’t have to learn how to mix it myself. But I still end up adding about 5-10% perlite and some dolomite lime to my FF dirt.

Edit: this is for first use. I don’t reuse for the reason mentioned above.

thomas2402k · May 14, 2024

Mothman said:
I have a theory that when the cascade of states legalized personal use and personal grows, FF (and maybe others but especially FF) had to grab another gear in production to stay in the game. And here we are.

That blows as it’s one of the only soils around me that I’ve heard is worth anything really. I know I could order soil or order ingredients for a self amended soil but I’m brand new and growing the plant alone is scary enough, let alone making the food for it.

Stokes · May 14, 2024

thomas2402k said:
That blows as it’s one of the only soils around me that I’ve heard is worth anything really. I know I could order soil or order ingredients for a self amended soil but I’m brand new and growing the plant alone is scary enough, let alone making the food for it.

There are plenty of great soils to be had, especially when you begin to amend your own soils. Thats a natural evolution of some soil growers, take it as an opportunity to mix your own. You quickly realize that preamended soils hold you back, and for the cost of 2 large bags you can buy enough dry amendments to make your own soil for years that will blow it out of the water. Ive been using stuff i bought 3 years ago

Phyto · May 14, 2024

I’ve used Fox Farms Ocean Forest for almost 10 years, haven’t seen any changes. It’s the best and most cost effective soil I’ve found. I re-use it for many years. That said, I live close to the main headquarters and the original manufacturing site. Now the soil is made in several locations in the US, and there are regional differences because some forest products are not available in all areas.

Mikedin · May 14, 2024

Stokes said:
Absolutely.

Their soils are hit or miss now, their nutrients have always been watered down sludge. Never met a single grower that went from a product like nectar of the gods or foop to big bloom and was like shit yeah

Their soil at one time was a very solid beginner friendly amended soil. Used it exclusively for a long time. After seeing the wood chips that ive seen on here these past few weeks i’ll never recommend it again. Coast of Maine.

I like COM products as well,the stoningham blend soil was nice to run in, I think k I ran twice in it with no issues, their dry amendments I use in the vegetable garden

I have the full fox farms neut lineup (yes all of them in big bottles ) but they sit on the shelf I was gunna use them this year for some potted veggies to use them up, went to organic and threw out my PH up and Down, (best move I’ve ever made) switched from the Fox Farms bales of lucky dog (peat moss) about 3-4 runs ago and haven’t looked back, plants liked it, but I noticed more and more gnats each time I bought a bale, been using promix BX M as a replacement and don’t even need sticky traps in the tent anymore, no bugs. I did a few runs in happy frog, only time I ever got PM in a run, if I ran thir soil now it would be strawberry fields. I liked the soil, used it after the COM soil only switched to the promix to go from the coco/peat blend in the strawberry fields to 100% peat with the promix

Stokes · May 14, 2024

Mikedin said:
I like COM products as well,the stoningham blend soil was nice to run in, I think k I ran twice in it with no issues, their dry amendments I use in the vegetable garden

I have the full fox farms neut lineup (yes all of them in big bottles ) but they sit on the shelf I was gunna use them this year for some potted veggies to use them up, went to organic and threw out my PH up and Down, (best move I’ve ever made) switched from the Fox Farms bales of lucky dog (peat moss) about 3-4 runs ago and haven’t looked back, plants liked it, but I noticed more and more gnats each time I bought a bale, been using promix BX M as a replacement and don’t even need sticky traps in the tent anymore, no bugs. I did a few runs in happy frog, only time I ever got PM in a run, if I ran thir soil now it would be strawberry fields. I liked the soil, used it after the COM soil only switched to the promix to go from the coco/peat blend in the strawberry fields to 100% peat with the promix

You’re a great grower tho, i think you could shit in a bag and win PotM with it

Im not saying you cant grow good plants with it, only that there are better products out there, and they already have a relationship with so many grow shops that its wasy to market their nutrients

thomas2402k · May 14, 2024

Stokes said:
There are plenty of great soils to be had, especially when you begin to amend your own soils. Thats a natural evolution of some soil growers, take it as an opportunity to mix your own. You quickly realize that preamended soils hold you back, and for the cost of 2 large bags you can buy enough dry amendments to make your own soil for years that will blow it out of the water. Ive been using stuff i bought 3 years ago

Knowing they will last forever is the only justification to some of the prices I’ve seen for certain amendments. I’ve got recharge mychorhizzae instant compost tea/soil microbes on the way but that’s it so far and I know I’ll need different things pretty soon. What amendments have you found that work best for you? What would you personally add to a bag HF to make it where you’d want your soil to be?

Stokes · May 14, 2024

thomas2402k said:
Knowing they will last forever is the only justification to some of the prices I’ve seen for certain amendments. I’ve got recharge mychorhizzae instant compost tea/soil microbes on the way but that’s it so far and I know I’ll need different things pretty soon. What amendments have you found that work best for you? What would you personally add to a bag HF to make it where you’d want your soil to be?

Tbh i would start out with a blend like gaia green, roots organic, or down to earth so you can get used to how to mix, how long to cook, and how long it takes your amendments to become available to your plants. You learn how to read your plants. Anticipation is crucial in organic growing. If youre not proactive it will be a long hard grow. Once you get a handle on that then you can get into individual ingredients and make you own mix and top dressings. I like down to earth single ingredients for my mixes. Been using a lot of roots organics too. I lean towards roots these days because its more pulverized and is available to your plants sooner, and they include inoculants so you can pretty much get rid of recharge. Regardless of what you do, keep it simple because alot of people go overboard and mix different shit in that serves the same purpose. Waste of money to an extent.

Mothman · May 14, 2024

thomas2402k said:
That blows as it’s one of the only soils around me that I’ve heard is worth anything really. I know I could order soil or order ingredients for a self amended soil but I’m brand new and growing the plant alone is scary enough, let alone making the food for it.

I grouse about the occasional quality blips I see, but I just bought another 2-ft bag of HF! I like it. I up pot into Ocean Forest. It’s convenient.

thomas2402k · May 14, 2024

Stokes said:
Tbh i would start out with a blend like gaia green, roots organic, or down to earth so you can get used to how to mix, how long to cook, and how long it takes your amendments to become available to your plants. You learn how to read your plants. Anticipation is crucial in organic growing. If youre not proactive it will be a long hard grow. Once you get a handle on that then you can get into individual ingredients and make you own mix and top dressings. I like down to earth single ingredients for my mixes. Been using a lot of roots organics too. I lean towards roots these days because it’s more pulverized and is available to your plants sooner, and they include inoculants so you can pretty much get rid of recharge. Regardless of what you do, keep it simple because alot of people go overboard and mix different shit in that serves the same purpose. Waste of money to an extent.

I wanted to get into growing a couple years back and never went through with it, I got the general hydroponics flora series and a DWC setup but this time around decided to go soil. Currently have a mixture of nutrients at half dose of what’s recommended for seedlings. Ive heard amazing things about the Gaia amendments and I think that’s what I’ll go with. Should I use the GH products for my house plants or do you have any experience with them?

Stokes · May 14, 2024

thomas2402k said:
I wanted to get into growing a couple years back and never went through with it, I got the general hydroponics flora series and a DWC setup but this time around decided to go soil. Currently have a mixture of nutrients at half dose of what’s recommended for seedlings. Ive heard amazing things about the Gaia amendments and I think that’s what I’ll go with. Should I use the GH products for my house plants or do you have any experience with them?

Absolutely keep those nutrients. Because if you get into dry amendments your timing might be off and you can use them to immediately get your plant out of a bad spot, or you may decide to venture into coco and you can use them there. Theyre not shitting on anything

Finish this grow with them for sure

thomas2402k · May 14, 2024

Stokes said:
Absolutely keep those nutrients. Because if you get into dry amendments your timing might be off and you can use them to immediately get your plant out of a bad spot, or you may decide to venture into coco and you can use them there. Theyre not shitting on anything

Finish this grow with them for sure

That gives me a confidence boost for sure. If I were wanting to keep using HF for this entire grow would the GH nutes I have provide enough to keep a healthy balance or should I add some more organic material ie. worm castings or bat guano when I repot in around 6 days or so?

Stokes · May 14, 2024

thomas2402k said:
That gives me a confidence boost for sure. If I were wanting to keep using HF for this entire grow would the GH nutes I have provide enough to keep a healthy balance or should I add some more organic material ie. worm castings or bat guano when I repot in around 6 days or so?

Those nutrients will completely obliterate what FFOF has in it. Ocean forest is a basic mix to keep plants happy as seedlings and early veg. Plants dont ask for much in veg. Not at all. You will use the hell out of those nutrients in flower. You would have needed them regardless

Bat guano and castings would be good for veg. But for flower you will need more p/k, and calmag. Cant remember if you have it or not but calmag is essential, unless you plan on getting some type of bone meal and epsom salt. But always a good idea to have calmag on hand

7munkee · May 14, 2024

Stokes said:
There are plenty of great soils to be had, especially when you begin to amend your own soils. Thats a natural evolution of some soil growers, take it as an opportunity to mix your own. You quickly realize that preamended soils hold you back, and for the cost of 2 large bags you can buy enough dry amendments to make your own soil for years that will blow it out of the water. Ive been using stuff i bought 3 years ago

I'm with Stokes. I have a 15-gallon SIP and I filled it with a bag of FF Happy Frog, worm castings, pumice (equal parts of each) and 1/4 crab meal, 1/4 kelp meal and 1 cup of dolomite lime. I have ran 5 complete grows through it adding only a handing malted barley, some neem seed meal and seabird guano with fresh castings between each grow.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to get good medicine. You can buy each of these ingredients in 5 lb boxes from Down to earth for $20 or so each and they will last for years for a small grower.

Edit to add: I put all the leaves back into the soil for the nitrogen source.

Are fox farm products declining in quality?

Are fox farm products declining in quality?

thomas2402k

DougV

Stokes

BB22

Stokes

Mothman

Mothman

thomas2402k

Stokes

Phyto

Mikedin

Living Soil Student

Stokes

thomas2402k

Stokes

Mothman

thomas2402k

Stokes

thomas2402k

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