RoadKillSkunkHunt said:

For organics to work in coco, there must be a microbe population. It can be done but again, you're trying to go outside of where this media works its best magic. Without microbes to make the nutrients available for the plants to uptake, they starve.

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WackyZac said:

I understand that, synthetics must be able to bypass that necessity. As you said, all the ingredients to make organic work, clog up the sponge of coco. Synthetics don't do that. It sounds like "living coco" is good as an idea but the maths don't work on paper.

I'll just use organic soil with an organic nutrient line from the store and start growing Venus Fly Traps as well.
I like Lotus for their simple "1-2-3" steps but I can't get clarification on if they're 100% organic, there's some additives that makes them technically not.

This is year 3 of growing. I think I have my method down, just trying to learn more and branch out to grow and share the best weed I've ever smoked

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RoadKillSkunkHunt said:

technically speaking, coco is considered an inorganic media despite it coming from coco hulls. Don't ask me why its categorized that way.

However

You can inoculate coco with beneficial bacteria and people do grow organically in it using liquid organic nutrient programs. The people who are consistently doing this successfully are experienced growers. It's too easy for things to go wrong for a person just starting out. It's not as simple as add beneficial microbes, add organic feed. The actual breakdown of the organics to plant available form is a timing game and that's what makes it harder and frequently much more inconsistent. Salts will give you better yields while organics isn't necessarily going to give you better tasting smoke.

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RoadKillSkunkHunt said:

technically speaking, coco is considered an inorganic media despite it coming from coco hulls. Don't ask me why its categorized that way.

However

You can inoculate coco with beneficial bacteria and people do grow organically in it using liquid organic nutrient programs. The people who are consistently doing this successfully are experienced growers. It's too easy for things to go wrong for a person just starting out. It's not as simple as add beneficial microbes, add organic feed. The actual breakdown of the organics to plant available form is a timing game and that's what makes it harder and frequently much more inconsistent. Salts will give you better yields while organics isn't necessarily going to give you better tasting smoke.

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SlingShot said:

Can I ask please. I run 70/30 coco perlite mix with salts, awesome. I bought Xtreme Gardening Mykos (fungi) and Azos (bacteria) to support plant health etc. I am now lead to believe that they wont establish in the coco mix during the limited time between sow and harvest. When transplanting I sprinkle both on the root ball and in the pot depression and that's it. I have a veggie garden that would love them. Am I wasting product and time by using? Thanks.

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SlingShot said:

Thanks for the info, I understand the role they play in breaking down organic nutes for root absorption but became confused just what they're doing in my salt grow, especially with the limited exposure time and that I thoroughly rinse the coco mix in-between grows. It's not a time hassle I guess more a cost issue even though a little goes a long way. I'm about to re-pot so I think I'll add them to 3 outta the 4 and see what's up.

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RoadKillSkunkHunt said:

You don't receive the same benefit using microbes with salts based nutrients. This doesn't mean it's not doing "anything" to support your grow because it probably is. It's role is different in a synthetic grow. It's not required to manufacture the plant's feed from organics in the mix. I hope that makes sense.

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WackyZac said:

I'm afraid I'm still a little confused about organic/coco and microbes/salt based. Enlightening to hear coco is technically not organic, so synthetics makes a lot more sense. To save myself a headache I'll stick with organic=soil and close the door on coco-coir. One more side by side using proper nutrients based off the information you shared to see which I like more or is "better".

Now if I could only pick which size pots to grow in for autos and which for photos but that's a discussion for another day

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SlingShot said:

You may close the door on coco and organics but keep in mind if ever to cross to the dark side of salt nutes as myself and others swear by them and never at them, cheap, clean, reusable (to a degree) versatile with both pots and irrigation setup and the plants absolutely love the 70/30 mix I've used, happy grows.

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WackyZac said:

Oh I'm 100% wanting to grow organic. Just in soil, with organic nutrients. I'm willing to try one more side by side with organic soil/organic nutes vs coco-perlite/synthetic "salt based"(?) nutes and see which one I like more.

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SlingShot said:

After re-reading my sloppy post it sounds like I'm highlighting the positives of synthetics where I was meant to highlight the awesomeness of coco or coco / perlite, though reading your comment this new info matters none anyway. I use 70/30 in autopots with salts but I cannot wait to try soil and organics, happy grows.

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• Plant/animal: composts, manures, worm castings, fish hydrolysate/emulsion, kelp/alfalfa meals, molasses, feather/blood/bone meal.
• Mineral (mined, not synthesized): rock phosphate, limestone/dolomite, gypsum, langbeinite (K-Mg-S), greensand, sulfate of potash (from natural brines).
• They mostly release slowly via microbial mineralization.

• N: Haber-Bosch ammonia → urea, ammonium nitrate, etc.
• P: phosphate rock treated with acids → (mono/di)ammonium phosphate, phosphoric acid.
• K: potash mining/refining → KCl, K₂SO₄.
• Micros often chelated (EDTA/DTPA/EDDHA) for availability.

Environmental footprint (big picture)​

• Nitrogen is the heavy hitter. Haber-Bosch is energy-intensive (natural gas + CO₂/N₂O emissions). Over-application of any N (organic or synthetic) leads to nitrate runoff and nitrous-oxide (a potent GHG).
• Phosphate & potash are mined either way (many “organic” P sources are still rock-derived). Mining disturbs land and can carry impurities (e.g., cadmium).
• Organics can be great when they recycle local waste streams (composts, manures, plant residues) and build soil organic matter, improving water holding and cutting runoff.
• But not all “organic” is greener: bat guano (cave disturbance), fish products (fishery pressure), or shipped-long-distance bulky inputs can carry big externalities. Pathogens are a risk if manures aren’t properly composted.
• Synthetics excel at precision (fertigation/EC control) → less waste if managed well. Poor practice, though, causes salt buildup, runoff, and higher footprint.

• More eco-friendly: locally sourced/recycled organics + cover crops + minimal till + right rate/timing.
• Equally or more eco-friendly than organics: precise synthetic fertigation with runoff capture, slow/controlled-release N, inhibitors, and accurate soil/solution testing.

Greener either way (practical tips)​

• Test first (soil/media or solution): apply only what’s missing.
• Close the loop: capture and reuse runoff; don’t dump to drains.
• Go slow-release: coated urea or organic blends; split doses.
• Choose sources wisely: local compost/castings > shipped guano; MAP/MKP over TSP if you must; K₂SO₄ over KCl for sensitive crops.
• Build the medium: add organic matter (even in coco/soil-less) to improve retention and cut leaching.
• Energy & water matter too: efficient lights, pumps, and RO waste recapture often dwarf nutrient differences.

FloridaMike said:

Why are you so hung up on "organic"? Nutrients that plants use are the same, regardless of their source... Organic doesn't automatically = smaller environmental footprint or "better" buds.

Organic nutrients (legal “organic” sense) = plant/animal/mineral derivatives that need microbes to turn them into plant-available ions.

• Plant/animal: composts, manures, worm castings, fish hydrolysate/emulsion, kelp/alfalfa meals, molasses, feather/blood/bone meal.
• Mineral (mined, not synthesized): rock phosphate, limestone/dolomite, gypsum, langbeinite (K-Mg-S), greensand, sulfate of potash (from natural brines).
• They mostly release slowly via microbial mineralization.

Synthetic (“salt”) nutrients = already in ionic form, made/refined industrially.

• N: Haber-Bosch ammonia → urea, ammonium nitrate, etc.
• P: phosphate rock treated with acids → (mono/di)ammonium phosphate, phosphoric acid.
• K: potash mining/refining → KCl, K₂SO₄.
• Micros often chelated (EDTA/DTPA/EDDHA) for availability.

Environmental footprint (big picture)​

• Nitrogen is the heavy hitter. Haber-Bosch is energy-intensive (natural gas + CO₂/N₂O emissions). Over-application of any N (organic or synthetic) leads to nitrate runoff and nitrous-oxide (a potent GHG).
• Phosphate & potash are mined either way (many “organic” P sources are still rock-derived). Mining disturbs land and can carry impurities (e.g., cadmium).
• Organics can be great when they recycle local waste streams (composts, manures, plant residues) and build soil organic matter, improving water holding and cutting runoff.
• But not all “organic” is greener: bat guano (cave disturbance), fish products (fishery pressure), or shipped-long-distance bulky inputs can carry big externalities. Pathogens are a risk if manures aren’t properly composted.
• Synthetics excel at precision (fertigation/EC control) → less waste if managed well. Poor practice, though, causes salt buildup, runoff, and higher footprint.

So… are organics “more eco-friendly”?

It depends on the source and the management.

• More eco-friendly: locally sourced/recycled organics + cover crops + minimal till + right rate/timing.
• Equally or more eco-friendly than organics: precise synthetic fertigation with runoff capture, slow/controlled-release N, inhibitors, and accurate soil/solution testing.

Greener either way (practical tips)​

• Test first (soil/media or solution): apply only what’s missing.
• Close the loop: capture and reuse runoff; don’t dump to drains.
• Go slow-release: coated urea or organic blends; split doses.
• Choose sources wisely: local compost/castings > shipped guano; MAP/MKP over TSP if you must; K₂SO₄ over KCl for sensitive crops.
• Build the medium: add organic matter (even in coco/soil-less) to improve retention and cut leaching.
• Energy & water matter too: efficient lights, pumps, and RO waste recapture often dwarf nutrient differences.

Bottom line: “Organic vs synthetic” isn’t automatically greener vs. worse. The sourcing and how you apply them drive the footprint. Use local/recycled organics when you can; use synthetics precisely and capture waste when you can’t.

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WackyZac said:

Organic just gives me peace of mind I guess. We live in a world of food dyes and microplastics. So "organic" trips a safety placebo response of sorts.

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WackyZac said:

Organic just gives me peace of mind I guess. We live in a world of food dyes and microplastics. So "organic" trips a safety placebo response of sorts.

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WackyZac said:

Gaia Green is on my radar, probably going with whatever pre-made organic blend they have on sale at the green house and mix with Gaia Green.

I only get three or four gnats at a time and they manage to be avoiding of the sticky traps so they just really annoy me until I grab the swatter. Difficult no, annoying and distracting yes.

So upping Lotus and Stash blend is a good idea?

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WackyZac said:

I've been trying to learn coco-coir. This run has Foxfarms 50/50 coco-perlite mixed with Build-A-Soil 3.0, and I'm very lightly adding Lotus nutrients and Stash blend, only once so far and they're about to start week 4.

My question, is there a certified organic nutrient line I can use with a coco-perlite and worm casting blend? Instead of mixing coco with an organic soil? How do you supply nutrients to your coco if not using synthetic liquid nutrients?

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Markjohn66 said:

Check out Mr.canucks grow on youtube he grows a few different ways, I believe he's done organic coco. He's a genius

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