Blasting directly onto an Oil-Slick pad?

hightide · Apr 29, 2013

I have search pretty much every thread in the oil forum to no avail.

Does anyone blast directly onto an Oil-Slick pad?

My pad will fit perfectly in the bottom of my pyrex dish. Is this safe, or will I create residue from the pads? I would think this would be as safe as parchment paper.?.

Thx

shawnskush · Apr 29, 2013

Ive seen bad reviews on the pads somewhere just cant remember where. Something about them leaching out color into the oil. Never used em personally tho so I cant say from personal experience.

El Cerebro · Apr 29, 2013

just did some reading on these, the company owner answered lots of questions on another forum.

they seem to have done some work to eliminate the problem of silicone leaching with parchment and baking mats (the materials used are different than sil-pat). they also sell ptfe sheets on a roll, and a little silicone ball for carrying your meds. good reports from users, but no actual chem testing.

i'm concerned about the increasingly prolific use of silicone parchment and mats that release into solvent concentrates. all the talk of FDA-approval/etc totally ignores the dangers of inhaling volatilized silicone (rather than ingesting). and the FDA is run by corrupt industry shills anyway.

hightide · Apr 29, 2013

shawnskush said:
Ive seen bad reviews on the pads somewhere just cant remember where. Something about them leaching out color into the oil. Never used em personally tho so I cant say from personal experience.

Thanks shawn, I thought I read about this somewhere, it was a year or more back.
Now when I search a couple of sites I can't find much on it.

El Cerebro said:
just did some reading on these, the company owner answered lots of questions on another forum.

they seem to have done some work to eliminate the problem of silicone leaching with parchment and baking mats (the materials used are different than sil-pat). they also sell ptfe sheets on a roll, and a little silicone ball for carrying your meds. good reports from users, but no actual chem testing.

i'm concerned about the increasingly prolific use of silicone parchment and mats that release into solvent concentrates. all the talk of FDA-approval/etc totally ignores the dangers of inhaling volatilized silicone (rather than ingesting). and the FDA is run by corrupt industry shills anyway.

Thanks El, hard data or first hand experience is invaluable, IMO. I own a couple of their pads and the slick ball.
I had to laugh when they were delivered, it read "Slick Balls" on top of the little container they came in. I got slick balls man.:bored:

I've used their pads when doing cold water extraction, they work great! the ball works good too.
It's larger than most pics demonstrate, about the size of a golf ball.

I was hoping to find something solid before trying.

And yes, the FDA is pathetic.

Graywolf · Apr 30, 2013

Oil Slick themselves don't recommend blasting directly onto their pads, as butane swells silicone rubber.

El Cerebro · Apr 30, 2013

Graywolf said:
Oil Slick themselves don't recommend blasting directly onto their pads, as butane swells silicone rubber.

you sure? cause it seemed like the owner was saying it works great (although there was also some mention of a 1st-gen version that wasn't so good as what they make now). i can't remember exact details to quote the tech, but the discussion is on a regional PNW forum.

hightide · Apr 30, 2013

After doing some other research on this I am still up in the air.
I found one forum where everyone there did this with no such problems.

I did find a review that stated;
"this product is alright, ran a batch and shot right onto the pad, where i shot onto the pad it has become all cloudy even though it claims to be solvant resistant!"

Also this;
"From what I have been told by Josh, of Oil Slick Pads, that the first models weren't designed to be sprayed on.
After they found out folks were spraying directly onto the pads they changed. If you have an Oil Slick Pad that says Oil Slick Pad on it, its the first version. If not, then its V2, and is completely fine to spray directly on."

And from an Oil Slick Rep.;
"Silicone and butane react badly together so anyone using a silpat to purge bho on is doing it very wrong.
The OilSlick pads are made from Fiber injected silicon making them about 3times thicker then a silpat.
The reinforced FDA approved silicone surface is nonstick, heat resistant, solvent resistant, and completely reusable.
Oil Slick is microwave and hot-plate safe. The unique material spreads heat evenly when used for purging and handles temperatures up to 500°F."
I'm sure this came directly from their site.

:meh:

smokeyfish · Apr 30, 2013

I had another username on here but havent used it in forever and forgot it, I got mailed this page from another "karma community site" I am a part of and im glad to be on here and a part of this discussion with some awesome people. On the forums I am smokey fish and am in real life im an organic science hobbyist and cannabis aficionado and am in love with how variant the chemistry of cannabis is.
As far as blowing on the New Oilslick pads and oilslick products in general from my understanding is they use top grade material and this is no problem. Some people get confused between about reactivity and swelling.

its true butane swells silicone , but it is not reactive with silicon since no change occurs. As a matter of fact Swellex a medical solvent used for heart stints and silicone IV's " utilizes proprietary solvent technology to provide a superior solution for connecting silicone and polyurethane tubing to barbed fittings and other rigid parts". :) that was pasted from there website which can be found here " http://www.microcaremedical.com/products/product_detail/Swellex"

Reactivity in chemistry between two properties in a case like this can be defined as :

it decomposes
it forms new substances by addition of atoms from another reactant or reactants
reactions in which it interacts with two or more other reactants to form two or more products

Oil slick uses Platinum Catalyst Cured Silicone the same thing found in heart stints and some IV tubing so there are no machine oils or impurities within the silicon from manufacture that could potentially be expelled during swelling and purging process. Food grade silicone mats are not cured in this manner because people dont make bread with butane ;)

Degradation over time and temperature differential will wear down a pad and any flaw in the pad will be exposed and exploited by butane trying to escape so most people change out every 3-4 blows since they are so cheap compared to how much oil you save. IMO

I dont thing Oilslick will eagerly condone blowing on pads for legal reasons (not ok everywhere?? not ok federal?? ) but I know some of the crew and they only blast on pads.

let me know whats up ... back to inverting this ether/alcohol/water/oil solution lol

Graywolf · May 2, 2013

El Cerebro said:
you sure? cause it seemed like the owner was saying it works great (although there was also some mention of a 1st-gen version that wasn't so good as what they make now). i can't remember exact details to quote the tech, but the discussion is on a regional PNW forum.

I asked for and received a sample for testing from Oil Slick. I'll report back after having done so, but here is the letter from Joshua, from Oil Slick:

Hi Greywolf,
I am sure you know, silicone swells in the presence on non-polar solvents. Hexane is actually used as a “swelling agent” for silicone tubing to allow for an easier connection.
The swelling effect is the primary reason why silicone makes a poor compatibility choice when selecting a material to come into prolonged direct contact with non-polars.
As you must also be aware, chemical contamination from “extractables” in silicone materials, (in a procedure such as you are describing) is due almost entirely to the physical release of low molecular weight siloxanes, and other impurities from the manufacturing process.
This is why Tygon 3350, or SaniTech-Ultra, are made with platinum cured silicone rather than the more common peroxide cured variety. This is also why We use platinum catalyzed USP6 silicone in our pads. (rather than peroxide/food grade).
As far as I am aware, we are the ONLY company doing this. The cost of material for a simple “baking mat” would be prohibitive in that industry.
For the record (sometime I feel like a broken record)We do not sell the Pad to spray directly onto. Many (many) folks do, and when we realized it (july of 2012), we switched the silicone we use as our raw material as aprophylactic measure.
We also removed the Logo from our pads, because we feared that immersion in non-polar solvent could act to weaken the bond between that thin layer of logo silicone, and the pad beneath. As concerned as we were about the logo....i cringe when I see folks spraying into parchment. The matrix of silicone in common parchment paper (non-Quilon / silicone coated) is extremely fragile compared to a pad. I imagine the violence of swelling and shrinking on that scale would be tenfold compared to the effect that prompted our own change of material.
The physical wear of swelling/shrinking/swelling/shrinking along with the various stresses inflicted by the innovative public (razor blades, torches etc...) make any sort of performance warranty unmanageable.
So we make em as pure as it gets, and when people ask us....we tell em that if they insist on using them this way, to please discard them if they notice any physical degradation.
I would refrain from cutting the pad to perform your testing, as this will expose the inner weave. Once cut or torn, the physical consequences of swelling could lead to damage along the exposed area.
Let me know where to send it, and I will get a Pad out to you today. Always happy to hear your thoughts. I redacted about 2 pages of hyper technical diatribe from this email.... because I figured you have likely done your own research regarding Pt cured silicone, and the various plasticizers that are used in food grade silicone. This is understandably a topic quite close to my heart; and I will be vary happy to discuss at length should you have specific questions (or non-specific musings?).
Also, should you require it, you have my explicit permission to share anything we discuss with whichever forums you are involved in.
Regards,
Joshua

hightide · May 2, 2013

Thanks Graywolf, I knew you would be all over this one.
I look forward to your testing results.

As always, the fine, fine folks at the farm go far above and beyond what any other
place even attempts to do.
Thanks again.

NorCalD9 · May 2, 2013

GREAT POST GRAYWOLF

El Cerebro · May 2, 2013

excellent, please pass along our thanks.

we really need to get the word out about parchment. so much of what's in dispensaries is getting processed that way lately.

squiggly · May 2, 2013

It is unfortunate, but after taking such great lengths to grow the material it is often JUST before it is used that it ends up getting adulterated in service to haste.

Use glass, stainless steel, or aluminum and you will have no issues whatsoever.

What we are dealing with here is a chemical soup. It is not possible to know what's going to happen ahead of time, and without EXTENSIVE and prohibitively expensive testing it's not possible to know what, if any, adulteration may have occurred.

While we know that a non-polar solvent will cause the stuff to swell we don't know what as non-polar solvent with a mix of 100 other chemicals will do to it, and we're not able to reliably predict such a thing.

As has always been my mantra with processing, we must avoid side reactions and unpredictable reaction conditions like the plague. When it comes to this process that means using nothing but:

1. Plant material.
2. Solvent.
3. Inert materials (like glass)

If you use anything else you are begging for side reactions to take place. Similarly, because of the nature of the extract--what might be safe for one strain could be unsafe for another one. That's why it is best to stick with what we know which amounts to.

1. The solvent is inert (without activation by UV light or some other high energy source)

2. The compounds dissolve into the solvent.

Beyond that, we should be looking to do absolutely NO chemistry, because any further chemistry we do will be wholly unpredictable. As the gentleman in the above email alluded, this is not the proper use of such products. Though the company sought to make their product safer for this use, that doesn't mean they've made it safe. His apprehension about this is tangible, and so should mine be.

This is just the wrong way to do it guys. It's not worth the 5-20 minutes it saves you. Likewise, there is no other chemical laden material you should be using either. There is a reason chemistry tools are mostly made of glass, and this is it.

As an engineer Graywolf will be familiar with the notion of a "six sigma process". At the end of the day one of the better ways to get there, without getting too technical, is to remove as many superfluous and confounding factors as possible while still maintaining the highest quality. Each additional step, item, material, etc.--introduces a new possible source of error. In the light of chemical engineering this is absolutely unacceptable when dealing with a crude extract. If you had a more pure product we'd be in a very different place with this, but because of the nature of what we're doing (and what you want to use these pads for) this is a goal that will never be attained.

germinator · May 3, 2013

squiggly said:
It is unfortunate, but after taking such great lengths to grow the material it is often JUST before it is used that it ends up getting adulterated in service to haste.

Use glass, stainless steel, or aluminum and you will have no issues whatsoever.

What we are dealing with here is a chemical soup. It is not possible to know what's going to happen ahead of time, and without EXTENSIVE and prohibitively expensive testing it's not possible to know what, if any, adulteration may have occurred.

While we know that a non-polar solvent will cause the stuff to swell we don't know what as non-polar solvent with a mix of 100 other chemicals will do to it, and we're not able to reliably predict such a thing.

As has always been my mantra with processing, we must avoid side reactions and unpredictable reaction conditions like the plague. When it comes to this process that means using nothing but:

1. Plant material.
2. Solvent.
3. Inert materials (like glass)

If you use anything else you are begging for side reactions to take place. Similarly, because of the nature of the extract--what might be safe for one strain could be unsafe for another one. That's why it is best to stick with what we know which amounts to.

1. The solvent is inert (without activation by UV light or some other high energy source)

2. The compounds dissolve into the solvent.

Beyond that, we should be looking to do absolutely NO chemistry, because any further chemistry we do will be wholly unpredictable. As the gentleman in the above email alluded, this is not the proper use of such products. Though the company sought to make their product safer for this use, that doesn't mean they've made it safe. His apprehension about this is tangible, and so should mine be.

This is just the wrong way to do it guys. It's not worth the 5-20 minutes it saves you. Likewise, there is no other chemical laden material you should be using either. There is a reason chemistry tools are mostly made of glass, and this is it.

As an engineer Graywolf will be familiar with the notion of a "six sigma process". At the end of the day one of the better ways to get there, without getting too technical, is to remove as many superfluous and confounding factors as possible while still maintaining the highest quality. Each additional step, item, material, etc.--introduces a new possible source of error. In the light of chemical engineering this is absolutely unacceptable when dealing with a crude extract. If you had a more pure product we'd be in a very different place with this, but because of the nature of what we're doing (and what you want to use these pads for) this is a goal that will never be attained.

Whipping,buddering ect ??

We Solidarity · May 3, 2013

:facepalm:
this thread is exactly the sort of thing that makes me think the 710 cup shouldn't exist.

why on earth would you want to spray onto anything but a glass surface?! We're talking about volatile chemicals here - butane will do a shit ton more than just extract your thc...that's why you use pyrex glass and take safety precautions...(sort of like) they do in a lab when working with solvents...

hightide · May 4, 2013

WeSolidarity said:
this thread is exactly the sort of thing that makes me think the 710 cup shouldn't exist.

This thread is exactly the sort of thing that forums like this were intended for.

A knowledge base for like minded individuals to discuss, explore, refute or debate said threads/topics.

Your post demonstrates that.

While I do enjoy your posts/thoughts, it seems as though you were implying that this was a dumb question. How ever dumb it may seem to you, could at the same time be saving someone time and hassle. ( possibly health)

As I stated in my second post, I read elsewhere that others were doing this. I wanted hard data before advising or attempting to do such. I found no information about it here. I trust the many sources at the farm over any other knowledge base, forum or message board that I frequent. Two of the three people I was hoping would reply to this thread have already posted. Both with valuable information, and one is about to conduct testing. I think I did exactly what I set out to accomplish. Educate myself and possibly others.
Just think, it wasn’t to long ago if you posted about running butane through your trim or buds, you would have been slammed by 90% of the folks out there.
Sometimes we have to stop and think back to those days when we didn’t know everything, it makes us appreciate it even more when we do learn something new.

One doesn’t necessarily ask a question that one doesn’t already know the answer to.

With that being said, thanks for replying. I appreciate all impute.

And on the cup thing… We probably have the same feelings about it and most other mainstreams cups.

Grow in peace.

hightide · May 5, 2013

Well I did my first run... Blew onto glass. Waiting on GrayWolf's testing before I blow onto pad.

I think I did well for a First time run.

Graywolf · May 5, 2013

Looks good to me for a first time run too, how does it taste and smell?

hightide · May 5, 2013

Thanks Graywolf.
Smells and taste just like my Fruity Pebble buds, only better.
I'm actually amazed at how much flavor and smell it retained.

This stuff is powerful. I make some pretty good full melt bubble and this blows it away!

hightide · May 18, 2013

Hey Graywolf,

Were you able to do some comprehensive testing?
Just curious.

Blasting directly onto an Oil-Slick pad?

Blasting directly onto an Oil-Slick pad?

hightide

shawnskush

El Cerebro

hightide

Graywolf

El Cerebro

hightide

smokeyfish

Graywolf

hightide

NorCalD9

El Cerebro

squiggly

germinator

We Solidarity

hightide

hightide

Graywolf

hightide

hightide

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency