Clawing Bud Leaves Only. 21 Days Bloom. Please Help!

houseofgas · Dec 8, 2018

Hey guys this has been going on for the last week, clawing bud leaves. Fan leaves are not affected at all. There is only 200 ppm left in the coco after flush and I’ve been feeding at around 130ppm. Growing in coco/clay pebbles 60/40. 1000w de on 400w mode room temp 76f humidity around 51% No fans blowing directly on plants so not wind burn and can’t be toxicity because there is only 200 ppm left in medium. Again only bud leaves drooping! Please save me! Thanks. HOG.

houseofgas · Dec 8, 2018

The fan leaves seem to be happy and praying... for now. Really been destroying my brain for days. @Coco Joe @Enforcer anyone please chime in

Seraphine · Dec 8, 2018

What is lights off temperature?

Seraphine · Dec 8, 2018

Have you checked for bugs in the soil or on the leaves?

houseofgas · Dec 8, 2018

houseofgas said:
Hey guys this has been going on for the last week, clawing bud leaves. Fan leaves are not affected at all. There is only 200 ppm left in the coco after flush and I’ve been feeding at around 130ppm. Growing in coco/clay pebbles 60/40. 1000w de on 400w mode room temp 76f humidity around 51% No fans blowing directly on plants so not wind burn and can’t be toxicity because there is only 200 ppm left in medium. Again only bud leaves drooping! Please save me! Thanks. HOG.

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Seraphine said:
Have you checked for bugs in the soil or on the leaves?

there is no trace of bugs at all. I think that there was a build up of N from the cal mag+ And I didn’t taper off soon enough and it just didn’t need all that N 2 weeks in. Going to do a thorough flush tmz start from ground up I think. I’m just not sure how well I can come back from this now... hopefully things won’t taste to green..

houseofgas · Dec 8, 2018

Seraphine said:
What is lights off temperature?

Night time temp about 73f - 50/55% humidity

CaliRooted · Dec 8, 2018

Water temp???

houseofgas · Dec 9, 2018

CaliRooted said:
Water temp???

69f

chemistry · Dec 9, 2018

Are you using an oscillating fan?

houseofgas · Dec 9, 2018

chemistry said:
Are you using an oscillating fan?

Iam and it isn’t blowing directly on them just over them. Gentle breeze.

houseofgas · Dec 9, 2018

houseofgas said:
Iam and it isn’t blowing directly on them just over them. Gentle breeze.

I think there is excess N in the medium from veg. I didn’t cut the cal mag + early enough. Even tho there is barely any ppm in the medium only 250. I think it’s all N and it’s not getting enough P K

SmithsJunk · Dec 9, 2018

houseofgas said:
there is no trace of bugs at all. I think that there was a build up of N from the cal mag+ And I didn’t taper off soon enough and it just didn’t need all that N 2 weeks in. Going to do a thorough flush tmz start from ground up I think. I’m just not sure how well I can come back from this now... hopefully things won’t taste to green..

Did you use heavy magnification when you checked for bugs? I couldn't see any bugs under a 30x loupe last summer so I thought I was fighting a nute deficiency and nothing was helping. Then the guy at the hydro shop told me it was from mites. Early on in a broad mite infestation looks just like your pics and those little bastards are tiny. Took a 60x loupe and very strained eyes to see them. I suggest a 100x mic just to make it easier. If it is mites, then you're right, it is a nutrient problem but it's being caused by their phytotoxins.

Broad Mites really show in the new growth, narrowing leaves, clawing, and as the poisoning advances, a knarled look in new growth. I already had a full blown infestation by the time I took these pics and thought I was still fighting a nute deficiency.

Even after I eradicated the mites the poisoning continued for some time since it lingers in the plant tissue. The damaged foliage never fully recovered but I had vigorous new growth again after enough poison dissipated.

Jimster · Dec 9, 2018

It looks like an excess of something...maybe Nitrogen, although it usually gets a little droopy from a N overdose. The newer leaves are affected, so it is probably something that has changed recently. Sometimes a changing Ph level can lock or unlock nutrients that weren't affecting it before. As an example, you can pump a lot of nutrients into your growing medium, but if your Ph is much above 7, some of the water soluble nutrients change into a non absorbable form. When the Ph comes back into the proper range, all of the insoluble nutrients are suddenly available and could be too high of a level.
With that being said, when leaves start growing weird, I usually consider it an overdose of something. Deficiencies usually affect the fan leaves first. This is my general rule...by no means should it be interpreted as anything official!

PharmHand · Dec 10, 2018

houseofgas said:
Hey guys this has been going on for the last week, clawing bud leaves. Fan leaves are not affected at all. There is only 200 ppm left in the coco after flush and I’ve been feeding at around 130ppm. Growing in coco/clay pebbles 60/40. 1000w de on 400w mode room temp 76f humidity around 51% No fans blowing directly on plants so not wind burn and can’t be toxicity because there is only 200 ppm left in medium. Again only bud leaves drooping! Please save me! Thanks. HOG.

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Gavita 1k?

DetGrnThumb · Dec 10, 2018

houseofgas said:
there is no trace of bugs at all. I think that there was a build up of N from the cal mag+ And I didn’t taper off soon enough and it just didn’t need all that N 2 weeks in. Going to do a thorough flush tmz start from ground up I think. I’m just not sure how well I can come back from this now... hopefully things won’t taste to green..

I was going to say, this happening to new leaf growth is typically due to nitrogen toxicity. Cut back on the calcium/nitrogen and push magnesium, phosphorus and potassium. You really need to keep an eye on your additives. You'll find a lot of "stand alone" secondary/micronutrient additives are derived from nitrates

houseofgas · Dec 10, 2018

PharmHand said:
Gavita 1k?

Not gavita.

houseofgas · Dec 10, 2018

DetGrnThumb said:
I was going to say, this happening to new leaf growth is typically due to nitrogen toxicity. Cut back on the calcium/nitrogen and push magnesium, phosphorus and potassium. You really need to keep an eye on your additives. You'll find a lot of "stand alone" secondary/micronutrient additives are derived from nitrates

Yes sir I cut the nitrates a week ago now, some of the leaves are kinda recovering/praying again I’ll post up later. I’m just not sure they would recover at all tho after the burn?

houseofgas · Dec 10, 2018

Jimster said:
It looks like an excess of something...maybe Nitrogen, although it usually gets a little droopy from a N overdose. The newer leaves are affected, so it is probably something that has changed recently. Sometimes a changing Ph level can lock or unlock nutrients that weren't affecting it before. As an example, you can pump a lot of nutrients into your growing medium, but if your Ph is much above 7, some of the water soluble nutrients change into a non absorbable form. When the Ph comes back into the proper range, all of the insoluble nutrients are suddenly available and could be too high of a level.
With that being said, when leaves start growing weird, I usually consider it an overdose of something. Deficiencies usually affect the fan leaves first. This is my general rule...by no means should it be interpreted as anything official!

You make a very good point. Ph going in 5.6 and out is 6.1, consistently.

houseofgas · Dec 10, 2018

SmithsJunk said:
Did you use heavy magnification when you checked for bugs? I couldn't see any bugs under a 30x loupe last summer so I thought I was fighting a nute deficiency and nothing was helping. Then the guy at the hydro shop told me it was from mites. Early on in a broad mite infestation looks just like your pics and those little bastards are tiny. Took a 60x loupe and very strained eyes to see them. I suggest a 100x mic just to make it easier. If it is mites, then you're right, it is a nutrient problem but it's being caused by their phytotoxins.

Broad Mites really show in the new growth, narrowing leaves, clawing, and as the poisoning advances, a knarled look in new growth. I already had a full blown infestation by the time I took these pics and thought I was still fighting a nute deficiency.
View attachment 845948 View attachment 845949

Even after I eradicated the mites the poisoning continued for some time since it lingers in the plant tissue. The damaged foliage never fully recovered but I had vigorous new growth again after enough poison dissipated.

There are no mites at all, but this IS valuable info man thanks for sharing.

DetGrnThumb · Dec 10, 2018

houseofgas said:
Yes sir I cut the nitrates a week ago now, some of the leaves are kinda recovering/praying again I’ll post up later. I’m just not sure they would recover at all tho after the burn?

It'll definitely affect the plants productivity, but I don't think it will be detrimental enough to consider scrapping the whole thing. A couple good high volume flushes followed by introduction of very light nitrogen/calcium and much heavier doses of sulfur, magnesium, phosphorus and potassium. Passing some beneficial bacteria and mycorrhizae will help break down residual nutrient buildup in those pots during those flushes/feedings

Clawing Bud Leaves Only. 21 Days Bloom. Please Help!

Clawing Bud Leaves Only. 21 Days Bloom. Please Help!

houseofgas

houseofgas

Seraphine

Seraphine

houseofgas

houseofgas

CaliRooted

houseofgas

chemistry

houseofgas

houseofgas

SmithsJunk

Jimster

PharmHand

DetGrnThumb

houseofgas

houseofgas

houseofgas

houseofgas

DetGrnThumb

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