Clone Trouble

[jenna haze]

here is my cloning method

Somehow they all keep dying I have not been able to get even 1 clone to root:mad0233:

1. Set up equipment.
a. Fill 2X pots with miracle grow moisture control (all time released nuts capsules sifted out.) and water with clean water left to stand for 24 hrs to rid chlorine then make a small hole to insert peat puck.

b. Soak 2X Peat Pucks in clean container with clean water that has been left to stand for 24 hrs to rid chlorine.

c. Using 2 clean stainless steel cups fill one with same fresh water that was left to stand for 24 hrs. The other with a small amount of rooting powder.

d. Sterilize 1X new razorblade with 99% alcohol then rinse with tap until clean of alcohol.


2. Ensure mother plant has not had nuts in 5 days(even tried with nuts, was told by a friend that less nuts in plant means less to live on so they'll root faster out of necessity) and has been freshly watered 3-5 hrs prior to cutting.
3. Take cutting at 45* angle then immediately submerge into water then into powder.

4. Give it a tap to release excess powder and insert into peat puck then carefully pinch peat puck to hold cutting

5. Insert into hole in soil fill around puck then mist cutting and lid then cover your plant with the dome.

6. They sit on a heating pad set to 75* F and are under 2X CFL 20 watt I believe

 

[motherlode]

well hello jenna - let me start off by saying Im a big fan of your work :banana:- lol


try rockwool cubes or even rapid rooters would be my first suggestion

and dont plant them in dirt until you see roots

also I never spray the cuts - I spray the dome - sparying the cut just puts excess stress on it

 

[jenna haze]

I have tried many diff ways rock wool, rapid rooters, DWC, soil still 0% results.

 

[motherlode]

is it just one strain your trying to root - or have you not had success with diff cuts and diff methods?

 

[jenna haze]

is it just one strain your trying to root - or have you not had success with diff cuts and diff methods?

yep ive tried Super Skunk, NL, WW, ect nothing.....

 

[Sea Of Green]

Here's what I see wrong with your methods:

1. Wrong choice of growing medium. You should use what's called seedling starter mix. It generally consists of peat moss, perlite, and vermiculite. I make my own, because it's cheaper and just as good. I've found a 50/50 mix of just peat moss/perlite is as good as anything. Vermiculite is just cheap filler IMO, it doesn't add anything needed to the mix, so I don't use it. Plus it's not the safest stuff to work with.

2. Don't fuss about the chlorine in the water.

3. Don't use peat pellets. God I fuckin' hate those things! Just poke a hole in the middle of the potted+wetted medium and put the clone in it, close the hole, water/feed, cover, repeat process with next clone(if necessary).

4. Don't fuss about when the mother plant had nutes. Just make sure she wasn't recently watered(like that day).

5. Shit! Rooting powders! There's 95% percent of the problem right there. Dip'N Grow is the bestest, and the cheapest! I've NEVER seen a rooting powder actually ROOT anything. More like ROT! Which is what they should be called, rotting powders.

6. And this one is more important than some tend to realize, sufficient quantity AND quality of light. Don't mess around here. Flourescent lighting is perfect. Just make sure it's not too bright, and has a wide spectrum and/or color temp. around 5000K-6000K(close to natural sunlight/daylight). I like OTT lights best. But presently I use two bulb colors(6500K and 2700K)in the same fixture to get a wide spectrum effect that works just as good.

7. I agree, don't spray them.

Good article on cloning.

 

[jenna haze]

KK thanks for the help Sea of Green this is what i have in mind

1. switching to seedling starter mix.
2. threw out powder and ordered some Clonex Gel
3.potting directly into soil
4. not misting clone but the dome
5. kept CFLs as they were working out well to grow the mother.

 

[motherlode]

I would use some time of rooting plug or rockwool before id try and root in dirt

shit even coco would be better

 

[jenna haze]

Whats Wrong With Soil?

 

[motherlode]

lol you asked for advice - Im giving you great advice

dont mess with soil until you see roots coming out of your plug or rockwool

 

[DrCALIGREENTHUM]

that girll is so fuckin gorgeous
OMFG I wish you were the real her haha

 

[SmokieMcPhattie]

id have to say check your water for its ph level
where i live i know the water is neutral and i have never really had any probs cloning except for the odd strain that is known to be hard to clone
ive used pro mix when i use dirt to clone but usually use peat pucks
id say if your prob isnt the water its the mix of dirt your using
mirclegrow has nutes inn it so will seedling mixes
you want something that doesnt
so your the 1 in control of what and when they are feeding
i use a lil bit of vita boost about day 5 to keep thing somewhat moist and spray the bottom of the tray to lure the roots to come out
i also use a lil bit of vita boost to soak my pucks inn half of what recommended

 

[Sea Of Green]

Whats Wrong With Soil?

As in potting soil? Or as in seedling starter mix?

Potting soil, is just that soil for potted plants. It has peat moss, perlite, and occasionally vermiculite in it. But it has other stuff too. Like bark fines, compost, pumice, dolomite lime, etc.. Making it more like top soil in overall consistency.

Seedling starter mix is not actually soil. Peat moss, perlite, and vermiculite are all considered "soil-less" or hydroponic mediums in their own right. They can therefore be mixed with each other, or other soil-less mediums, to create soil-less mixtures with different desired qualities.

So my answer is pretty much the same, no soil until it's transplanted into it's final container/hole in the ground. Except that I believe my 50/50 soil-less mix is a superior medium for starting clones/seeds. I've also seen rockwool and rapid rooter plugs work good too. But I prefer my method mainly based on cost. I buy sphagnum peat moss and perlite in bulk, and it only costs me a few pennies per clone in the 2.5" pots I use. It would easily cost me two or three times as much with rockwool starter cubes or rapid rooters. I do upwards of 200 clones a year. So price matters to me. Plus I'm old-school like that. I like to make my own when/if I can.

 

[DrCALIGREENTHUM]

you coulda have gotten a way better XXX pic of that girl
lmao

 

[Seamaiden]

Here's what I see wrong with your methods:

1. Wrong choice of growing medium. You should use what's called seedling starter mix. It generally consists of peat moss, perlite, and vermiculite. I make my own, because it's cheaper and just as good. I've found a 50/50 mix of just peat moss/perlite is as good as anything. Vermiculite is just cheap filler IMO, it doesn't add anything needed to the mix, so I don't use it. Plus it's not the safest stuff to work with.

2. Don't fuss about the chlorine in the water.

3. Don't use peat pellets. God I fuckin' hate those things! Just poke a hole in the middle of the potted+wetted medium and put the clone in it, close the hole, water/feed, cover, repeat process with next clone(if necessary).

4. Don't fuss about when the mother plant had nutes. Just make sure she wasn't recently watered(like that day).

5. Shit! Rooting powders! There's 95% percent of the problem right there. Dip'N Grow is the bestest, and the cheapest! I've NEVER seen a rooting powder actually ROOT anything. More like ROT! Which is what they should be called, rotting powders.

6. And this one is more important than some tend to realize, sufficient quantity AND quality of light. Don't mess around here. Flourescent lighting is perfect. Just make sure it's not too bright, and has a wide spectrum and/or color temp. around 5000K-6000K(close to natural sunlight/daylight). I like OTT lights best. But presently I use two bulb colors(6500K and 2700K)in the same fixture to get a wide spectrum effect that works just as good.

7. I agree, don't spray them.

Good article on cloning.

Hhmm... well, I know I'm different, but didn't realize I'm that different. When I root cuts in soil or media I really prefer to use a rooting hormone of some sort. Otherwise I find myself growing old before they root. I also find that I get much better rooting rates when I use fluoros and put the new cuts off to the sides of the fluoros or allow them to be shaded by mother plants.

The very first time I took cuts of cannabis I used toilet paper tubes cut in half with soil pushed in them, set in plastic sandwich storage containers. I had them stuck in a clear bin nearby my west-facing sliding door and set a super-low wattage fluoro on top so they'd get a 24/0 photoperiod. And damn if it didn't work! Only around 80% success rate, but still.

I have found that many, if not most of the people who are experiencing total cloning failures are using the same amount of light one would use to get a hard veg on.

 

[MARTA]

here is my cloning method

Somehow they all keep dying I have not been able to get even 1 clone to root:mad0233:

1. Set up equipment.
a. Fill 2X pots with miracle grow moisture control (all time released nuts capsules sifted out.) and water with clean water left to stand for 24 hrs to rid chlorine then make a small hole to insert peat puck.

b. Soak 2X Peat Pucks in clean container with clean water that has been left to stand for 24 hrs to rid chlorine.

c. Using 2 clean stainless steel cups fill one with same fresh water that was left to stand for 24 hrs. The other with a small amount of rooting powder.

d. Sterilize 1X new razorblade with 99% alcohol then rinse with tap until clean of alcohol.


2. Ensure mother plant has not had nuts in 5 days(even tried with nuts, was told by a friend that less nuts in plant means less to live on so they'll root faster out of necessity) and has been freshly watered 3-5 hrs prior to cutting.
3. Take cutting at 45* angle then immediately submerge into water then into powder.

4. Give it a tap to release excess powder and insert into peat puck then carefully pinch peat puck to hold cutting

5. Insert into hole in soil fill around puck then mist cutting and lid then cover your plant with the dome.

6. They sit on a heating pad set to 75* F and are under 2X CFL 20 watt I believe

I recommend reading this thread by desertsquirrel...



Lots of great info for your noggin'

 

[Elite Nugs]

Here's how I do it and I usually get a 100% successes rate. Not every clone will be super strong, but thats why you take more then what you need, and pull out the healthy one and discard the rest.

You'll need....

A bottom tray, a dome for the tray and the insert that goes into the bottom on the tray.

(I use these trays, but not the cross pattern one thats in the middle. Just the bottom tray with the square holes and the top tray and dome.)

Then get some rockwool cubes... ( I use these ones)

And some rooting hormone. I like Rootech better then Clonex. Rootech in thicker and sticks to the stem better. I've used both rootech and clonex and I've always had better results with Rootech.

5 Gallon bucket.

Big cup.

Then get a sharp razor blade and some scissors. I use a scalpel instead of a razor blade. The sharper the better.


Once you have all that, I'll fill the 5 gallon bucket up with tap water and adjust the ph to 5.5. I also like to toss an air stone in there and let it sit overnight.

In the morning check and adjust the ph again, because its probably raised some. Then let it sit for another hour and check and adjust the ph one more time. I like to add a tiny bit of either Roots Excelerator or Rapid Start. Its not necessary, but it DOES make a difference. Roots grow much faster with RootsExcel or Rapid Start in the water. Just make sure your PH is stable and at 5.5 before adding the rockwool to the water.

Let the cubes soak in the bucket for about an hour. Take em out and break the the cubes apart. You dont want to use this type of rockwool when its all stuck together. Roots will growing into other cubes. So separate the cubes. From the the sheet there all attached to.

Get your big cup and put some of the water out of your bucket into it. Take your cup of water and scissors to your mother plant and find branches from the bottom to middle of the plant that have at least 2 nodes that you can cut off later. Cut the branches with scissors and put them straight into your cup of water.

Then get your rooting gel ready and razor blade and take each clone out and cut off a node or two. Then I like to scrape the side of the branch in-between the nodes that you just cut off. I scrape one side, then scrap the opposite side. I scrape just the outside layer of skin off of the branch. Then right below the last node on the branch, take your razor and give it a fast slice at a 45 degree angle. Then immediately dip it into the rooting gel. This is the point where you can get an embolism, so doing this part fast is best.

Then I let the clone sit in the rooting gel for a good 5-10 minutes. Then stick your clone in the predrilled hole in the rockwool and apply a little pressure to get it down in there good. Just make sure not to go too far, and poke out the bottom. Then put the cube inside one of the square holes of the tray insert.

The tray insert that I use keeps the rockwool cubes elevated off of the bottom of the tray, so the cubes dont stay too wet.

The next part I think is the most important. I read earlier in this thread not to spray your clones directly. I dont know anything about not spraying them, but I do spray them and it doesnt seem to do them any harm. I spray the clones and the inside of them dome 2-3 times per day for the first 2-3 days. Then after then 3 day, I'll only spray them once per day. Clones and inside of dome. I spray once per day for the next 5 days. After that I'll give the inside of the dome a light spray every day to every 2 days. On about the 8th day, I stop spraying and slowly start to open the vents on my dome. By the 10th day, I want to be able to completely remove the dome.

Also... very important.... make sure your dome fits the bottom tray good. If its loose it wont hold the humidity and you'll probably loose your clones within the first week. So make sure you buy one that fits tight and doesnt have gaps around the edges between the dome and the tray.

The spraying part I think is the most important. If you keep them too wet, you'll hurt them, if you keep them too dry, you'll hurt them. You have to keep them perfect.

Here's my spraying schedule, since it got a little messy above.

Day 1-3 - (Light spray clones and inside of dome 2-3 times per day)
Day 4-5 - (Light spray clones and dome 1 time per day)
Day 6-7 - (Only spray the inside of the dome 1 time per day)
Day 8-10 - Stop spraying and start opening vents on dome SLOWLY
Day 11 - You should be able to remove the dome completely.

As far as lighting goes, I would always use florescents. One 23 watt compact florescent about an inch or 2 above the top of the dome is perfect. It creates just enough heat to keep everything warm in the dome, eliminating the need for a heating pad. I HATE heating pads. Every time I've used them, they've done nothing but cooked my clones. With or without a temp regulator. The heat from the compact florescent bulb is plenty. Just keep it close to the top of the dome.


So this is how I do it. I get 100% rooted clones most of the time. Every once and a while I'll have one or 2 die, but thats about it.

I still think that EZ-Cloners are the best way to go. Super easy and they produce amazingly strong clones that dont miss a beat. My leaves dont yellow, or show really any signs of stress in the EZ-Cloner. But my rockwool method works just as well, just requires more work and maintenance.

 

[Sea Of Green]

Hhmm... well, I know I'm different, but didn't realize I'm that different. When I root cuts in soil or media I really prefer to use a rooting hormone of some sort. Otherwise I find myself growing old before they root. I also find that I get much better rooting rates when I use fluoros and put the new cuts off to the sides of the fluoros or allow them to be shaded by mother plants.

I use rooting hormones too. But mine get more light than that. I keep them ~3-4" below 2 different colored 48" 40W fluorescent tubes(6500°K + 2700°K) in a standard shoplight fixture. Works great! And so does...

http://www.dipngrow.com/

Hint: Dip'N Grow® makes a cloning gel now too! It's called Dip-Gel™. I haven't used it yet though, but I'm sure it's just as good. If it's made by Dip'N Grow®, it's The One That Works!

And after 10+ long years of practice/trial-and-error I've developed a method that yields a 98% success rate, +/- 2%. I guess I'll do a write-up thread on it eventually, as I'm rather proud of it's efficacy, economy, and simplicity. I pride my self on finding cheaper, and hence more practical, methods of achieving professional results. In all my work, not just as a nurserymen.

 

[Organicyumyum]

here is the tried and true method to get nearly 100% success. First off, don't use tap, either R.O. or store bought water. Get yourself some Grodan cubes (the ones that come 45 to a pack are a perfect size), clonex gel and clonex rooting solution, razor sharp scissors, clone tray with dome, florescent light, rubbing alcohol, a big bowl to soak cubes, and a cup to have water in. In the big bowl, have water with Clonex solution mixed in to soak cubes (Clonex is 2 teaspoons per quart, so 8 teaspoons per gallon). Soak cubes in solution, then squeeze excess water out. The cubes should have some water in them (dont squeeze them out too much). Put cubes in tray.

Now take cuttings from strong mother plants with strong branches. Cut about 3-4 nodes down from the tip. Quickly remove excess foilage aside from the top 2 or 3 leaves/nodes. immediately put the cut end into water and recut the end under water at a 45 degree angle. This will ensure there is no air bubble in the stem which will cause the cut to die. After cutting end under water, immediately remove and dip into clonex gel. Have a little bit of gel in a shot glass so you don't contaminate the whole bottle. After dipping put in cube and repeat the process. Once you have taken your cuttings, spray the inside of the dome with water and put it on (i keep the vents closed, some people say leave them open, but i find the cubes dry out too quickly if you do that). I then put the dome under a compact flourescent in a small hut. The hut stays warm from the flourescent so i never use a heating mat. you want the cuts to stay around 80 degrees. too cold they dont root, too hot they rot and die. if you use a mat, make sure to use a regulator for it cause the mats get too hot on their own and will surely kill your cuts. I agree with the guy 2 posts above that said that the flourescent creates the exact amount of heat needed, so I say skip the mat. Keep the clones misted, though I only mist the first time. I never take the dome off until about a week later when they have rooted, though some people will say to burp the dome daily. It's up to you, but just check on them daily to ensure the dome is still humid inside. You should get 100% results if you follow these directions to the T.

oh, and may i add that if you follow this, you can skip ph-ing the water. I dont own a ph meter and never will. It's not necessary unless you are growing in hydro or aero. Just make sure to use store bought or R.O. water, No Tap!!!!!

 

[Sea Of Green]

I only use a heat pad in the winter, for a couple months(saves me HUGE $$$ on electricity). I also think they're a little too hot to go directly under the pots, unregulated. But I just put a folded towel on top first, to dissipate some of the heat. Works alright that way. I've been meaning to make a regulator/dimmer for it. Just nevr gotten around to it.

I don't stress on chlorine because there's hardly any in the tap water I use. Especially where I live now. It's essentially just pure, cold, clear, snow melt that takes a short 25 mile journey down river to the city pump station to get filtered first before coming out of my taps. Not much is in it to begin with to require much chlorine treatment at all.

Oregon Rules!!!