Club Yield

MushinNoShin · May 19, 2015

I wanted to make a thread totally dedicated to increasing your yields/GPW indoors. I am hoping that by posting progress and sharing tips, tricks and information we can all increase our GPW over time.

If you intend to show-off and already have your zipper down, please go somewhere else. This isn't a dick measuring thread; just a simple thread about what works and what doesn't work (for you), your techniques and tracking your progress.

MushinNoShin · May 19, 2015

Last cycle I pulled 1.2312 GPW running perpetual, multiple strains. Running SS#4 cut with Coco and Perlite, sometimes just straight SS#4 and sometimes Aggregate Plus. Using 2 gal and 3 gal grow bags with drippers (.5 gph @ (2) 15 min intervals).

I am going to standardize everything, all across the board; Monocropping, 5 gallon grow bags only, will be experiementing with 2-3 clones per grobag to attempt to better utilize sq. footage and will also be keeping them shorter (around 3 feet). Switching from drippers to hand-watering and will continue to top/pinch/train the shit outta them. I am convinced these steps will increase my GPW.

My system/style before this gave me a little over .5 GPW, so I've come quite a ways from where I once was.

MushinNoShin · May 19, 2015

Google "kin recognition" in plants, some really amazing stuff. I have found that you can stick multiple clones into a single pot, as long as they are clones from the same plant. Plants are at constant war with one another and will literally strangle the root systems of other plants and release toxins in the soil to kill other plants, they have found that plants posses a form of kin recognition and do not harm their genetic relatives (usually?). In this case they are genetic replicas of one another, so aren't liable to wage war, lol.

I have found in some cases it does make them autoflower, however and if one gets a jump start on the other(s), they will block them out for light, so be sure to get them rooted and going at about the same size and vigor if you try it. Even when one blocks out the light of another, I still see an increase in yield per sq. ft.

Experiment, collaborate, repeat.

rubthe nub · May 19, 2015

MushinNoShin said:
Last cycle I pulled 1.2312 GPW running perpetual, multiple strains.

If that's where your at consistently then IMO you're right on point

IMO those 2 & 3 gpw stories are just that.

2 gpw is almost 4 1/4 per 1k hps
3 gpw is almost 6 3/4 per 1k hps

I've gotten a few bumper crops but never close to that, maybe they weigh everything, lol
I've 3 or close to 3 several times but...........

Ive heard stories about the newer DE's getting nice yields but cannot honestly answer regarding them

ivyboy1225 · May 19, 2015

I think a little more information is needed for me personally. Your day/night temps, airflow, double or single or moving trellis, veg time, flower time, co2 levels, vpd levels, what kind of light/how old it is, bennies ran, etc. Also, I've noticed in other threads the discussion often veered towards in order to truly calculate pure gpw you must account for everything - acs/fans/everything. If those aren't being counted it's fairly easier to give gpw.

eighty9concr · May 19, 2015

rubthe nub said:
If that's where your at consistently then IMO you're right on point

IMO those 2 & 3 gpw stories are just that.

2 gpw is almost 4 1/4 per 1k hps
3 gpw is almost 6 3/4 per 1k hps

I've gotten a few bumper crops but never close to that, maybe they weigh everything, lol
I've 3 or close to 3 several times but...........

Ive heard stories about the newer DE's getting nice yields but cannot honestly answer regarding them

I switched all my 1000w hps to 1000w DE's and saw a 15-20% increase in yield on the first harvest. Imo they definitely make a difference. I regularly hit 2-2.25 per light but have hit over 2.5 on a few runs depending on strain. I run sealed rooms with ac, co2 on atlas 1 controller, dehums, etc. Feed botanicare PBP in soil/coco (use both, not at same time though) with a 2/3 soil/coco, 1/3 perlite ratio. I use ocean forest for soil. 10g smart pots in trays, 4-5 plants per 1000w depending on strain.

I agree about 2 & 3 gpw being story time.

FooDoo · May 19, 2015

Jesus why would the mods delete my post

This place is turning into a Nazi camp

rubthe nub · May 19, 2015

lol @FooDoo
I'm not sure I've ever had one deleted
Maybe I should pay more attention:rolleyes:

FooDoo · May 19, 2015

Its OK. I didn't say anything of much importance. Good luck op

rubthe nub · May 19, 2015

ivyboy1225 said:
I think a little more information is needed for me personally. Your day/night temps, airflow, double or single or moving trellis, veg time, flower time, co2 levels, vpd levels, what kind of light/how old it is, bennies ran, etc. Also, I've noticed in other threads the discussion often veered towards in order to truly calculate pure gpw you must account for everything - acs/fans/everything. If those aren't being counted it's fairly easier to give gpw.

IMO when most people talk about gpw they're just taking into account the lights.
If you want to split hairs you are indeed correct everything should be factored in, with that being said if you're basement/hobby growing you'd also have to take into account such things as stove, washer & dryer, dishwasher etc...
Should that be counted in there? IMO those people are talking about commercial scale ops.

OP also mentioned he is running perpetual, I run perpetual as well and can you first hand that things like vpd and co2
have to handled differently than a mono crop. In a perpetual set up his numbers are pretty good. I'd be willing to bet
there are lots of farmers not even getting close to those numbers. I'm assuming that people are talking REAL weights and
not just bullshitting. I could wheel one of my trays under a couple of t5's snap a few pics and be an internet legend but that
not the point of this exercise.

Joe Fresh · May 19, 2015

real grow room stats are measured in grams per square foot, this gives you how much your getting per X amount of space with a certain strain or what not...gpw if simply a measurement of how efficient you are with you lighting imo, not your plants/space...dont get me wrong, gpw does correlate a bit into grow room stats, but for me its really g/sqr ft that is the real measurement of how well your doing, gpw is more a measurement of how efficient you are with your lighting

with measuring g/sqr ft you can compare all grows of all sizes, indorr or outdoor, and any kind of lighting...your still comparing the plants to a set amount of space ;)

rubthe nub · May 19, 2015

Joe Fresh said:
real grow room stats are measured in grams per square foot, this gives you how much your getting per X amount of space with a certain strain or what not...gpw if simply a measurement of how efficient you are with you lighting imo, not your plants/space...dont get me wrong, gpw does correlate a bit into grow room stats, but for me its really g/sqr ft that is the real measurement of how well your doing, gpw is more a measurement of how efficient you are with your lighting

with measuring g/sqr ft you can compare all grows of all sizes, indorr or outdoor, and any kind of lighting...your still comparing the plants to a set amount of space ;)

That argument becomes flawed when you look at vertical space. I could theoretically let my plants get about 6' tall and never lollipop or trim anything, just a "forest of flarf". That flarf would be weight, might not be worth a damn but......
Then you have vertical bare bulb tree growers, must of us will have a hard time keeping up with them because of the 360' coverage if they set up bulbs and plants correctly.

I can easily do that ft2 math as well
98g / ft2 is my best in the last year or so
flat grow/scrog, nothing but good tops

rubthe nub · May 19, 2015

This is why I disagree with your post about grams per/ft2

flat/overhead lighting
1k hps = 4x4 so 16 ft2 total area

vertical
1k hps= 4 x pi x 4 so about 50 ft2 total grow area
using only 12.5 ft2 (assuming nothing is growing on 'outside' of circle)
I figured at 2' from bulb at start of veg
so a 4' dia circle
diameter x pi = circumference
then multiply by height, again I used 4'

So vertical people should be crushing it per/bulb compared to anybody that's using overhead

Outdoor would show an even a bigger discrepancy

400 gal smart pot is 70" dia that works out to only 26.7 ft2
I've seen MONSTERS in 400 smarties

ShroomKing · May 20, 2015

FooDoo said:
Jesus why would the mods delete my post

This place is turning into a Nazi camp

I thought it was the norm. ....lol

ivyboy1225 · May 20, 2015

rubthe nub said:
IMO when most people talk about gpw they're just taking into account the lights.
If you want to split hairs you are indeed correct everything should be factored in, with that being said if you're basement/hobby growing you'd also have to take into account such things as stove, washer & dryer, dishwasher etc...
Should that be counted in there? IMO those people are talking about commercial scale ops.

OP also mentioned he is running perpetual, I run perpetual as well and can you first hand that things like vpd and co2
have to handled differently than a mono crop. In a perpetual set up his numbers are pretty good. I'd be willing to bet
there are lots of farmers not even getting close to those numbers. I'm assuming that people are talking REAL weights and
not just bullshitting. I could wheel one of my trays under a couple of t5's snap a few pics and be an internet legend but that
not the point of this exercise.

Understood. I was asking if OP wanted a more comprehensive picture. I've been so lucky to talk to some of the sickest growers I know of on this site, and it's amazing the little things they take into account. These guys regularly pull 3+, meanwhile I'm struggling to break 2. The devil is really in the details.

ivyboy1225 · May 20, 2015

OP stated that he wanted to start a thread to increase yields - then stated his gpw (which is very high) but didn't state what he used to standardize it. GPW is not as clean cut a definition as flushing, and would be something more analogous to PPM conversion to EC. If we are talking about just GPW taking into account lighting only (and not oscillating fans, max fans, timers, exhaust, co2 controllers) than I think more people can chime in. I wasn't trying to nit pick, I was genuinely trying to standardize things for the future.

I'm trying to learn as well, and very interested when farmers:

What technique they use to train their veg plants (super crop, lst, main line, top)
What type of scrog system they use
When they transplant and what size pots/medium
When they remove lower sites and what % (I read 15% is max before stressing but I understand some farmers do it all in one day)
When/if they defoliate
co2 levels
vpd levels
Floor fans used at all

Joe Fresh · May 20, 2015

rubthe nub said:
This is why I disagree with your post about grams per/ft2

flat/overhead lighting
1k hps = 4x4 so 16 ft2 total area

vertical
1k hps= 4 x pi x 4 so about 50 ft2 total grow area
using only 12.5 ft2 (assuming nothing is growing on 'outside' of circle)
I figured at 2' from bulb at start of veg
so a 4' dia circle
diameter x pi = circumference
then multiply by height, again I used 4'

So vertical people should be crushing it per/bulb compared to anybody that's using overhead

Outdoor would show an even a bigger discrepancy

400 gal smart pot is 70" dia that works out to only 26.7 ft2
I've seen MONSTERS in 400 smarties

well i would like to disagree, in the sense that if you got a 10x10 room, it wont make a difference if you got a 10 foot ceiling or a 150 foot ceiling, in that 10x10 your plants can only fill so much of the floor space, light can only hit so much of the plant, the rest will stay shaded...shaded plant dont produce shit lol...so in the end, i stand by my g/sqr ft, regardless if your growing trees, or bushes or sog...just calculate it based on a yearly shcedule..because with time is only when you will be able to calculate true yield performance differences

the only time ceiling height will come into play in the equation is if you got less than 8 ft, 10-15 being optimal

also, if we are talking production, you will ALWAYS out-produce tree farmers with smaller plants and more harvests per year...remember i say per year...because to compare we need to use time, and it takes a lot more time to get trees, than it does to veg a plant 2-3 weeks and flower...or no veg at all just sog...

you want a real calculation, do grams per square foot over a 365 day schedule, then divide it and get the average grams per square foot grown on an average day, this will truly get you to you garden efficiency equation, the gpw is just a light efficiency equation...

there is a difference between garden efficiency, and lights/electricity efficiency ;)

rubthe nub · May 20, 2015

I'll just bow out of this one now, good luck

Stalks · May 20, 2015

Or you can really spit hairs and put in all the extra work... And use both gpw and g/sqr ft

Then you get an idea of space and electrical efficiency

Or in the case of the cieling height argument, couldn't you use grams per cubic ft?

FooDoo · May 20, 2015

Quality > yield anyway.

Inb4 "best of both worlds"

Club Yield

Club Yield

MushinNoShin

MushinNoShin

MushinNoShin

rubthe nub

ivyboy1225

eighty9concr

FooDoo

rubthe nub

FooDoo

rubthe nub

Joe Fresh

rubthe nub

rubthe nub

ShroomKing

Best of luck. Peace

ivyboy1225

ivyboy1225

Joe Fresh

rubthe nub

Stalks

FooDoo

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