Coco based organic super soil adventure!

PauliBhoy · Oct 4, 2021

Hey so I'm dialing in a coco-based super soil mix. Yeah really

In the late winter I mixed up a modified SS recipe with a 50/50 coco/perlite base plus 5% EWC and 5% biochar plus zeolite (CEC buffers) plus necessary minerals and 1.5 lbs pf nitrogen/cy (chicken litter compost, blood, and feather meals). It worked great for my spring crop but there wasn't quite enough N late in flower so I had to supplement.

So I then mixed up a new recipe in May exactly like the previous, except with approx 2 lbs nitrogen/cy (replaced alfalfa N with the chicken compost and added feather meal) as these would be in veg a couple weeks longer and wanted to make sure there was enough N to finish without supplementation.
The C99 plants I potted up in June have done great. No issues. Just cut them down and they look sweet!

I had a bunch of media left over that was stored in a white super sack outside through the summer and I decided to use it again two months later to pot up some clones for a super late crop. Yeah I can pull off a greenhouse crop in flower from now through early December in my climate .
Anyway I checked the pH of the mix from my (adjusted) pH ~6.0 water and omfg the pH was 4.5!!!! People say "pH doesn't matter" with organic soil so I put a few teens in it in 3 gallon pots. Half I watered with (pH modified) 5.5-6.0 water and the other half I watered with unmodified 7.4 pH water. The former burnt up and died within a few weeks. The latter look great! #pHmatters

Okay so I know that the mineralization process of organic nitrogen can acidify unbuffered soilless media (that includes peat) but I add a ton of buffers and here's the really crazy thing:

The runoff from the same soil mix that I planted into in June and harvested last week is identical to the input water (6.2).
Also the runoff from the leftover soil mix I mixed in the winter (that sat around for 7 months) is also identical to the input water (tested at 5.9 pH).
Yet the runoff from the 2nd mix that sat around for a few months is 1.4 pH lower than the input water.

Any thoughts? Anyone out there growing in coco- based organic "hot soil"?

Aqua Man · Oct 4, 2021

PauliBhoy said:
Hey so I'm dialing in a coco-based super soil mix. Yeah really

In the late winter I mixed up a modified SS recipe with a 50/50 coco/perlite base plus 5% EWC and 5% biochar plus zeolite (CEC buffers) plus necessary minerals and 1.5 lbs pf nitrogen/cy (chicken litter compost, blood, and feather meals). It worked great for my spring crop but there wasn't quite enough N late in flower so I had to supplement.

So I then mixed up a new recipe in May exactly like the previous, except with approx 2 lbs nitrogen/cy (replaced alfalfa N with the chicken compost and added feather meal) as these would be in veg a couple weeks longer and wanted to make sure there was enough N to finish without supplementation.
The C99 plants I potted up in June have done great. No issues. Just cut them down and they look sweet!

I had a bunch of media left over that was stored in a white super sack outside through the summer and I decided to use it again two months later to pot up some clones for a super late crop. Yeah I can pull off a greenhouse crop in flower from now through early December in my climate .
Anyway I checked the pH of the mix from my (adjusted) pH ~6.0 water and omfg the pH was 4.5!!!! People say "pH doesn't matter" with organic soil so I put a few teens in it in 3 gallon pots. Half I watered with (pH modified) 5.5-6.0 water and the other half I watered with unmodified 7.4 pH water. The former burnt up and died within a few weeks. The latter look great! #pHmatters

Okay so I know that the mineralization process of organic nitrogen can acidify unbuffered soilless media (that includes peat) but I add a ton of buffers and here's the really crazy thing:

The runoff from the same soil mix that I planted into in June and harvested last week is identical to the input water (6.2).
Also the runoff from the leftover soil mix I mixed in the winter (that sat around for 7 months) is also identical to the input water (tested at 5.9 pH).
Yet the runoff from the 2nd mix that sat around for a few months is 1.4 pH lower than the input water.

Any thoughts? Anyone out there growing in coco- based organic "hot soil"?

Ph in soil/peat and ph in coco are very different you cannot compare them in that aspect because not only is coco is usually not mixed with a buffer it also had a very different CEC and will hold onto calcium, magnesium and iron while leeching sodium, phosphorus and potassium.

This is why sometimes depending on your base nutes you need extra calmag which conveniently also contains iron most cases.

In soil you don't need to PH and even if you do the soil will change the PH to its makeup anyways.

In coco this is not the case and if growing organically you shouldn't be watering to runoff and should be adding a buffering capacity as needed.

Then you'd probably see very different results. PH is about 25% of the story and is a terrible way to try to use as reference for end results. Why? Because PH is a result not the cause.

PH control is done through a balance of alkaline and acidic sources and the volume of them. The more alkalinity the more acid or acidic materials need to be added and the more of each there is the more stable it becomes. That's can't just PH you nutes and expect the soil to change to your input.. . The soil has far more influence on pH than your tiny amount in the nutrients

NND · Oct 30, 2021

Aqua Man said:
Ph in soil/peat and ph in coco are very different you cannot compare them in that aspect because not only is coco is usually not mixed with a buffer it also had a very different CEC and will hold onto calcium, magnesium and iron while leeching sodium, phosphorus and potassium.

This is why sometimes depending on your base nutes you need extra calmag which conveniently also contains iron most cases.

In soil you don't need to PH and even if you do the soil will change the PH to its makeup anyways.

In coco this is not the case and if growing organically you shouldn't be watering to runoff and should be adding a buffering capacity as needed.

Then you'd probably see very different results. PH is about 25% of the story and is a terrible way to try to use as reference for end results. Why? Because PH is a result not the cause.

PH control is done through a balance of alkaline and acidic sources and the volume of them. The more alkalinity the more acid or acidic materials need to be added and the more of each there is the more stable it becomes. That's can't just PH you nutes and expect the soil to change to your input.. . The soil has far more influence on pH than your tiny amount in the nutrients

Hello you seem to know a lot about mixing coco, i have a issue with my PH being to high in my coco mix.
I use 50%coco 30%perlite 20%wormcastings,
My runoff shows 7.0PH and i fed them with 5.8PH.
What could i add to the mix or maybe even topdress to lower my PH ?
thanks a lot!

Aqua Man · Oct 30, 2021

NND said:
Hello you seem to know a lot about mixing coco, i have a issue with my PH being to high in my coco mix.
I use 50%coco 30%perlite 20%wormcastings,
My runoff shows 7.0PH and i fed them with 5.8PH.
What could i add to the mix or maybe even topdress to lower my PH ?
thanks a lot!

What is your water source? Ppm?

And nutrients added to your watering?

The only amendment is worm castings?

Pot size?

Hkw do you determine watering frequency?

Are you watering to runoff each time?

Have pictures of the plants?

Coco does not have a very strong buffering capacity so let's see what your doing here and figure out what may help.

Kinda odd to me that it's high but let's get some info here.

SSgrower · Oct 30, 2021

Following, I am a coco/perlite grower but, I did run SS as a youngster and this was my intent until @Aquaman & my grow buddy got me into Coco. I'd like to try a coco/SS mix just to experiment with. SS grower

sambapati · Nov 20, 2021

SSgrower said:
Following, I am a coco/perlite grower but, I did run SS as a youngster and this was my intent until @Aquaman & my grow buddy got me into Coco. I'd like to try a coco/SS mix just to experiment with. SS grower

Thats what I have..soil, coir, burnt rice husks, biochar, perlite, peat, clam shell dust, marine algae and 1 year old compost w/azomite/guano/dolomite lime/sand/colored tiny rocks and some eye of newt.

TryingToGrow · Dec 28, 2021

Hey there how is your grow going?

I am doing organic coco as well, same as you just an ‘attempt’, but so far it seems pretty good even though I had to transplant on like day 4 or 5 I guess because the grow master was flooding (it’s in alfa testing, so some kinks to be worked out).

Anyways, it seems to being great so far. For feeding the microorganisms, I just added organic, dried, cannabis leaves and stems. Once I ‘pot up’, I have some coco with about 1 to 10 Organic alfalfa to coco (or a little less on the alfalfa), in a 1 gallon pot. I am getting the pH down to ~5.8 using organic gypsum and organic vinegar, so it is ready to go, then 5.7 pH waterings only. If it needs, alfalfa tea to feed the soil.

I have to pH everything to about 5.7pH because everything rises and I like to be at 5.8-5.9 for all growing mediums, including organic soil. I must pH everything or nothing will grow well because the pH just keeps going up.

Here is my plant - little messed up from pH, transplanting or both (see purple stalk and slow growth after transplant (about a week ago)), but both are in check now and it is just starting to grow well again. Not much yet but she should come around.

This is my third attempt maybe, both times before were also pH issues because my res water never stops rising and I watered it with 7.0 pH and that didn’t help. This time seems like it should go pretty well though.

Running low wattage and ~12/12 from seed. Banana Dance, fem, photo period, so it has veg time if needed.

Pretty sure if you are easy on the amendments, all you have to worry about is pH (and not transplanting from flooded medium but I think that is a personal problem).

Coco based organic super soil adventure!

Coco based organic super soil adventure!

PauliBhoy

Aqua Man

NND

Aqua Man

SSgrower

sambapati

TryingToGrow

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