Coco specific nutrients potassium amounts

Wandering81 · Jul 2, 2022

Hello friends! I've embarked on the raw salt journey a little while ago, and loving avoiding the hydro store. I started with jacks, then masterblend. Now I tweak the masterblend with salts in veg. I've read so much, and taken so many notes, my head hurts. And still more to learn! Many of you have helped me so much, much love to you all!!

I know I've read this somewhere, but can't find it again.. does anybody know how much Potassium coco naturally adds to a nutrient mix? I'm trying to figure where to adjust my Potassium to for a veg formula. I'm thinking 150-160ppm to match the nitrogen.. In flower, I just run masterblend full strength after stretch. Ive been treating that 205ppm of Potassium as a bloom booster. Masterblend alone is great at finishing them. I'm under Samsung 301b chips

Clearbluesky · Jul 3, 2022

I've used master blend 3 parts for a long time, it does do a good job if you mix it right, give the base and Epsom salts enough time to dilute before adding calcium nitrate. A lot of times I would get some sediment in the bottom of my buckets which means some of the nutrients were falling out. For me the best way to use it is take 3 1 gallon jugs and make a strong solution up. You will have three jugs
A- for base.
B- for Epsom salts
C- for calcium nitrate.
After doing it that way my reservoir stays crystal clear with no sediment at the bottom. I would mix 120 grams of Base to jug A
Would add 60 grams of Epsom salt for jug B
And add 120 grams of calcium nitrate
For jug C.
So if you wanted to mix up a 5 gallon bucket at full strength of master blend you would just add 360 ppm for jug A
And add 115 ppm from jug B
And last add 360 ppm of jug C
For a total of 835 ppm using RO water and you don't get any sediment in bottom of bucket stays crystal clear and there is no fallout from nutrients.

Wandering81 · Jul 3, 2022

Clearbluesky said:
I've used master blend 3 parts for a long time, it does do a good job if you mix it right, give the base and Epsom salts enough time to dilute before adding calcium nitrate. A lot of times I would get some sediment in the bottom of my buckets which means some of the nutrients were falling out. For me the best way to use it is take 3 1 gallon jugs and make a strong solution up. You will have three jugs
A- for base.
B- for Epsom salts
C- for calcium nitrate.
After doing it that way my reservoir stays crystal clear with no sediment at the bottom. I would mix 120 grams of Base to jug A
Would add 60 grams of Epsom salt for jug B
And add 120 grams of calcium nitrate
For jug C.
So if you wanted to mix up a 5 gallon bucket at full strength of master blend you would just add 360 ppm for jug A
And add 115 ppm from jug B
And last add 360 ppm of jug C
For a total of 835 ppm using RO water and you don't get any sediment in bottom of bucket stays crystal clear and there is no fallout from nutrients.

Thanks for the input my friend, but that's not what I asked at all. I think you missed the part where I wrote I finish the plants with full strength Masterblend, which is the same as you. You just told me how to make stock solutions. I'm a little passed that working with salts, making my own nutrient blends specifically for coco. I use more cal nit in a single rez, than your stock solution contains.

What lights and medium are you in? That's exactly how I ran it at first. That was entirely too little magnesium/sulfer for my setup In coco under high powered LEDs, however that ratio works great for veggies. That's the basic masterblend formula that's posted all over the internet. That equates to about a gram a gallon of Epsom. Ive found I need 2-3 times that amount of Mg. 26-30ppm of mg under LED in coco?? Not a chance.

The magnesium issue I had with masterblend initially, is what made me start tweaking it.

Clearbluesky · Jul 3, 2022

I'm growing in coco, I vegg with master blend 3 parts, now I'm in the flowering stage I use RO water with silica and calmagic with maxibloom. Still got ,30 days on one plant and 6 weeks on the other auto. I got a journal going on them.

Clearbluesky · Jul 3, 2022

My lights are QB-301-H with the 660 ir have a total of 1300 watts from wall but don't use all the power, just use it for even coverage, my balance are meanwell. 5x5 tent

Peat_Phreak · Jul 4, 2022

Potassium is not an element that significantly affects yield in cannabis. It's definitely not a bloom booster. This is science not an opinion.

Optimisation of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium for Soilless Production of Cannabis sativa in the Flowering Stage Using Response Surface Analysis

Following legalisation, cannabis has quickly become an important horticultural crop in Canada and increasingly so in other parts of the world. However, due to previous legal restrictions on cannabis research there are limited scientific data on the relationship ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Clearbluesky · Jul 4, 2022

If you want to stick with master blend 3 parts, you know you cut back on the calcium nitrate, and up the magnesium with epsom salts, and people use flower fuel in the flowering stage. You might want to look into it.

Wandering81 · Jul 5, 2022

Clearbluesky said:
If you want to stick with master blend 3 parts, you know you cut back on the calcium nitrate, and up the magnesium with epsom salts, and people use flower fuel in the flowering stage. You might want to look into it.

Do you have any input about my initial post? I don't think your understanding the point of this thread. Especially while giving advice on masterblend with that pic of that over fertilized plant you posted.

Wandering81 · Jul 5, 2022

Peat_Phreak said:
Potassium is not an element that significantly affects yield in cannabis. It's definitely not a bloom booster. This is science not an opinion.

Optimisation of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium for Soilless Production of Cannabis sativa in the Flowering Stage Using Response Surface Analysis

Following legalisation, cannabis has quickly become an important horticultural crop in Canada and increasingly so in other parts of the world. However, due to previous legal restrictions on cannabis research there are limited scientific data on the relationship ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That's an awesome link! Thanks for that. However, this study was in DWC and not coco. Shouldn't their optimal numbers be different then? If potassium doesn't significantly affect yield, it might affect potency and terp content.

Tissue samples are also science, and claim the plant needs more potassium later on in flower.

Clearbluesky · Jul 5, 2022

No I guess I didn't understand your question, from what I know about coco it takes up more magnesium and calcium didn't think it had anything to do with potassium. As far as plant it was a calcium deficiency because I cut out my calcium nitrate down way too low but that problem is fixed now. That's how we learn, I hope you figure your potassium problem out.

Peat_Phreak · Jul 5, 2022

Coco doesn't contain a significant amount of nutrients. Especially not potassium.

Wandering81 · Jul 5, 2022

Peat_Phreak said:
Coco doesn't contain a significant amount of nutrients. Especially not potassium.

Then why do nutrient companies make coco specific nutrients that contain less potassium, to make up for the potassium it gives off as it decomposes??

Peat_Phreak · Jul 6, 2022

Because nutrient companies often mislead consumers in order to sell their products. You should ask your nutrient company how much K coco "gives off" as it "decomposes". Then ask them to provide proof to back up this dubious claim. If you were paying attention to the study I posted, you would know that the amount of K provided to the plant can vary quite a bit while getting the same result. Doesn't matter if its hydo or coco. So you are worrying about something that doesn't matter.

N1ghtL1ght · Jul 6, 2022

Coco-specific nutrition is formulated higher in Ca/Mg and less K not because the Cocos decomposes and releases additional K, but because K is a highly mobile ion which can be absorbed quickly by the roots whereas the assimilation kinetics of other ions more resemble a passiv uptake.
This has physiological reasons, ie. how specific nutrition is taken in via ion channels, -pumps, port, antiports & symports.
The frequency of fertigation also chimes in heavily here. The Manixbotanics-guide explains this stuff greatly.

Maybe if you use Cocos for a soilamendment of a living soil it would swifter breakdown but the range of K to feed is so high with almost negligible effect it won't make much of a difference. If in doubt just use the middle ranges as given in the studies but genetics and your overall recipe can still result in an altered ratio how these ions will be absorbed.

Wandering81 · Jul 24, 2022

Peat_Phreak said:
Because nutrient companies often mislead consumers in order to sell their products. You should ask your nutrient company how much K coco "gives off" as it "decomposes". Then ask them to provide proof to back up this dubious claim. If you were paying attention to the study I posted, you would know that the amount of K provided to the plant can vary quite a bit while getting the same result. Doesn't matter if its hydo or coco. So you are worrying about something that doesn't matter.

No, it DOES matter to me. And if you were paying attention to my initial post, you'd understand I'm making my own blend of nutrients from salts.

So basically your saying all the coco growers are getting the correct nutrient profile with coco specific nutrients? And everybody else is getting ripped off by the nutrient manufacturers because there is more potassium in the nutrients? Highly unlikely or the manufacturer would cut costs and make ALL nutrients with lower potassium if that were the case.

Peat_Phreak · Jul 24, 2022

It doesn't matter if you make your own nutes. The amount of K can vary a lot and produce the same yield.

N1ghtL1ght · Jul 24, 2022

Wandering81 said:
No, it DOES matter to me. And if you were paying attention to my initial post, you'd understand I'm making my own blend of nutrients from salts.

So basically your saying all the coco growers are getting the correct nutrient profile with coco specific nutrients? And everybody else is getting ripped off by the nutrient manufacturers because there is more potassium in the nutrients? Highly unlikely or the manufacturer would cut costs and make ALL nutrients with lower potassium if that were the case.

Could you cite a few examples where bottled nutes have a higher (than unusual) K and the manufacturer explicitly states this is due to decomposing cocos?
I've seen fertilizer brands sporting "aqua" or "hydro" bottles containing higher Ca.

That said, cocos is lignified and hardly decomposes. It needs specific MO's to do this, yet in a mineralic setup these may not be there at all

Coco specific nutrients potassium amounts

Coco specific nutrients potassium amounts

Wandering81

Clearbluesky

Wandering81

Clearbluesky

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Optimisation of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium for Soilless Production of Cannabis sativa in the Flowering Stage Using Response Surface Analysis

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Optimisation of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium for Soilless Production of Cannabis sativa in the Flowering Stage Using Response Surface Analysis

Clearbluesky

Peat_Phreak

Wandering81

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