Deficiency, watering issue or other?

Magnetonastick · Nov 6, 2021

I'm on day 29 with this photoperiod Gorilla Zkittlez and these issues seem to be getting worse each day.

Planted in a soil substrate with dry ammendments, watered with dechlorinated tap water with Epsom Salt. I've watered her twice, 500ml once the soil is dry to 2 inches below the surface. Last watering was on the 31/10/21.

Temperature of the tent varies between 22 to 27c, average RH has been 50% but recently upped to 70%. Light is supplied by a 100w quantum led panel. LUX was at approximately 25k, but I recently reduced this to 18k.

The older leaves developed brown spots/mottling and dry up to a crisp. Mainly affecting the tips and edges, spreading towards the veins and base of the leaf. As its progressing, the top leaves are becoming affected.

I had a similar issue with my last grow with an auto strain, small yield but finished.

Please help me save this girl

Moshmen · Nov 6, 2021

Magnetonastick said:
I'm on day 29 with this photoperiod Gorilla Zkittlez and these issues seem to be getting worse each day.

Planted in a soil substrate with dry ammendments, watered with dechlorinated tap water with Epsom Salt. I've watered her twice, 500ml once the soil is dry to 2 inches below the surface. Last watering was on the 31/10/21.

Temperature of the tent varies between 22 to 27c, average RH has been 50% but recently upped to 70%. Light is supplied by a 100w quantum led panel. LUX was at approximately 25k, but I recently reduced this to 18k.

The older leaves developed brown spots/mottling and dry up to a crisp. Mainly affecting the tips and edges, spreading towards the veins and base of the leaf. As its progressing, the top leaves are becoming affected.

I had a similar issue with my last grow with an auto strain, small yield but finished.

Please help me save this girl

What substrate? And what amendments ? No runoff? And no added nutes other than the soil additives? Do you know ppm of your tap? And last what made ya feed the epsom ?

Magnetonastick · Nov 6, 2021

1:1:1 peatmoss, compost and perlite with Dr Forest 444 and 284. I've not had runoff to try prevent overwatering at this stage. No additional fertilisers used so far. I have soft water <30ppm, and I use some Epsom Salt as I've read its hard to over do it?

OutdoorGrowGuy · Nov 6, 2021

Magnetonastick said:
1:1:1 peatmoss, compost and perlite with Dr Forest 444 and 284. I've not had runoff to try prevent overwatering at this stage. No additional fertilisers used so far. I have soft water <30ppm, and I use some Epsom Salt as I've read its hard to over do it?

Seldom use peatmoss myself, unless I need a little acidity, it's more forging than sulphur. Equal parts peatmoss to compost seems like a lot to be honest.
Also although peatmoss does have a tendency to become hydrophobic, it also has a high water holding capacity and sulphur content. Easy substrate to overwater and prone to root rot, because of it's inherent acidity and high water holding capacity.

Usually a good idea to lime peatmoss before use. Also a good idea to lime a soil mix or compost.
Did you add any dolomite lime?

Before planting did you test the pH of the mix?
To be honest if you didn't, I think it's well worth finding out what the current pH is, to rule out acidity.
Use a soil sample to test it.

OutdoorGrowGuy · Nov 6, 2021

For what it's worth watering only a small amount each time, is exactly the cause of chronic overwatering.
First glance at the leaves looked like signs of root rot to me, but neglected to mention, because you state you've only watered twice. And only 500mL at that.

How large is your pot?

Day of planting did you thoroughly water it in?

Moshmen · Nov 6, 2021

Magnetonastick said:
1:1:1 peatmoss, compost and perlite with Dr Forest 444 and 284. I've not had runoff to try prevent overwatering at this stage. No additional fertilisers used so far. I have soft water <30ppm, and I use some Epsom Salt as I've read its hard to over do it?

Sounds like ur tryin to go organic sorry for the misinfo I posted - I still thinkin calmag/watering

Moshmen · Nov 6, 2021

OutdoorGrowGuy said:
Seldom use peatmoss myself, unless I need a little acidity, it's more forging than sulphur. Equal parts peatmoss to compost seems like a lot to be honest.
Also although peatmoss does have a tendency to become hydrophobic, it also has a high water holding capacity and sulphur content. Easy substrate to overwater and prone to root rot, because of it's inherent acidity and high water holding capacity.

Usually a good idea to lime peatmoss before use. Also a good idea to lime a soil mix or compost.
Did you add any dolomite lime?

Before planting did you test the pH of the mix?
To be honest if you didn't, I think it's well worth finding out what the current pH is, to rule out acidity.
Use a soil sample to test it.

+1 except I think he can get away with a soil slurry test - 1 part soil 2 parts RO water mix well , let the soil settle 20-30 minutes then ph the water

Magnetonastick · Nov 6, 2021

Ahh, would it be a good idea to transplant her into a new mix with coco coir rather than the peatmoss? I am doing a soil pH test now and will follow up with the result.

Yes 500ml only twice, the soil seems to retain alot of moisture. Its an 11L fabric pot. No dolomite lime, and added a very small amount of water added at the start to help control dust from the Perlite.

OutdoorGrowGuy · Nov 6, 2021

Magnetonastick said:
Ahh, would it be a good idea to transplant her into a new mix with coco coir rather than the peatmoss?

I'm probably not the one to ask sorry. Indoor soil isn't really my shtick. Coco coir is it's own beast as well, I don't use it as a soil amendment myself.

Magnetonastick said:
I am doing a soil pH test now and will follow up with the result.

Please do.

If it is pH and it isn't far too low, I think a top dressing of dolomite lime will help. And once the soil has dried out sufficiently, water it in well and get some runoff.

Magnetonastick said:
Yes 500ml only twice, the soil seems to retain alot of moisture. Its an 11L fabric pot. No dolomite lime, and added a very small amount of water added at the start to help control dust from the Perlite.

When was it planted?

edit: my bad, 29 days right? From sprout?

Magnetonastick · Nov 7, 2021

My soil pH is at 5.5. I will try to raise at the next watering in a day or 2

lvstealth · Nov 7, 2021

Raising soil pH by diddling with water might not be the best answer.

OutdoorGrowGuy · Nov 7, 2021

Magnetonastick said:
My soil pH is at 5.5. I will try to raise at the next watering in a day or 2

Good stuff.

A smaller handful of dolomite lime. Can always add more if and when you think it needs it.

Thanks for updating and good luck.

Magnetonastick · Nov 9, 2021

Thanks guys.

Yesterday I watered 1.5L with a sprinkle of sodium carbonate to raise the pH to 7.1, also some Epsom salt and Molasses. I also topdressed with 444 and aragonite sand.

She's perked right up and had a growth spurt overnight! Hurrah. But now the new leaf edges look light burnt?

This is after I applied some gentle lst.

BirdLaw86 · Nov 9, 2021

How close is your light? How intense is it? Maybe dim the light a bit and give the plant a chance to recover before asking it to grow more. Idk if my thinking is correct but Id assume that photosynthesis uses energy and she may not have the most energy to use up due to the stress caused by this issue. Id give the plant like 48hrs to try and recover from this issue by shading the plant or backing light away from canopy or dimming the lights for a bit. Maybe another grower can elaborate but when i had issues i was told to back light off and it did help.

OutdoorGrowGuy · Nov 9, 2021

Magnetonastick said:
Thanks guys.

Yesterday I watered 1.5L with a sprinkle of sodium carbonate to raise the pH to 7.1, also some Epsom salt and Molasses. I also topdressed with 444 and aragonite sand.

She's perked right up and had a growth spurt overnight! Hurrah. But now the new leaf edges look light burnt?

This is after I applied some gentle lst.

Hey man, glad things are turning around.

If I may,

I don't think sodium carbonate is a good idea at all. Anything sodium I'd stay away from, it'll end up wreaking havoc.
Leaf tips, burn, deficiency, overwatering symptoms, you name it.
Sodium is a no go.

I really do recommend lime. Lime / Calcium Carbonate is what you ideally need here. My own preference is dolomite lime, it's a lot more forgiving than garden lime.
Stay clear of "fast acting" and "hydrated" limes.
Also lime should get to work faster than Aragonite Sand. I'm not completely sure though as I haven't used Aragonite myself.

Myself, I'd focus on raising and stabilizing the soil pH, before adding more nutrient etc.
If the your mix is still on the acidic side, it'll make it much harder for the plant to properly absorb the nutrients it needs, even if the nutrient is in the soil.
Oftentimes adding more nutrients in this type of situation makes problems worse.

My guess is those leaf tips you mention, is most likely the cause of lockout.
More than likely the pH, as that's what we narrowed down and found. But the addition of 4-4-4, sodium etc, might have had a part to play.

10L pot of soil with a pH of 5.5, I'd feel pretty comfortable top dressing with a small hand of dolomite lime.

Better in my opinion to focus on getting that pH under control, before adding more things.
Keep it simple until you're confident it's made a good recovery. Might take way week or two, just be patient.
Feel free to take off that crispy large fan leaf too. They generally tend to attract bugs / disease.

Glad things are looking better. Please keep updating if you can,

Cheers.

GNick55 · Nov 9, 2021

leaf tips that are not burnt but more white in colour is usually from the light too close, least i think in this case,
also get your watering practices correct!
a plant that size does not need calmg.,
really just a small amount of veg food like 2-3 ml per gal and a little vitamins/mineral food..
your loving her too much.. other than watering/feeding, find something else to do and just leave her be to grow.

BirdLaw86 · Nov 9, 2021

So find another hobby lol. Get a bonzai tree or turn COD warzone on and we can smoke some shit lol. Whatever ya do just dont bother the plant too much lol

OutdoorGrowGuy · Nov 9, 2021

Magnetonastick said:
Thanks guys.

Yesterday I watered 1.5L with a sprinkle of sodium carbonate to raise the pH to 7.1, also some Epsom salt and Molasses. I also topdressed with 444 and aragonite sand.

Sorry may I ask as well, you used enough sodium carbonate to raise the water to 7.1?

I think it's being sensible to suggest giving it a week or so, to see if the Aragonite Sand has any benefit, before top dressing any dolomite lime.

What's your water source in general?
If it's pH is close to neutral I'd personally leave it be.

Keep it simple for the next week or two. No more bi-carb soda, stick to plain water, no extra npk, take it easy on the epsom salt, dim the light a little, dolomite lime when it needs. Plus be careful not to overwater and it should turn around for the better.

Watch the watering frequency especially, since it's acidy from the peatmoss you're likely mostly dealing with. High levels of sulphur + consistently wet media / soil is something you really want to avoid, it'll lower the pH even further.
Be sure it's sufficiently dry before watering and get some good runoff. It'll help flush out a little sulphur each time you do.

Take it easy Larry and she'll be fine.

Good luck.

Millwright · Dec 17, 2021

Moshmen said:
+1 except I think he can get away with a soil slurry test - 1 part soil 2 parts RO water mix well , let the soil settle 20-30 minutes then ph the water

I don’t have an ro system. If I wanted to buy a gallon of water to do this, what should I buy?
Thank you

Deficiency, watering issue or other?

Deficiency, watering issue or other?

Magnetonastick

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