Defoliate or not defoliate that's the question

darklordmelkor · Mar 20, 2023

CannaGranny said:
Looking great! I see no problem with you holding over your first plants, as long as you have the space for them. That’s the beauty of this plant, you get to decide when you are ready for flower. Keep us posted, I’ll follow along

Okay then. I have space no problem. No problem at height (anyway they are short lol) no problem at extra space for new ones, no problem at waiting few more weeks for better results.Few days later new guests coming in to tent :) I will keep posting.

As i said before i never grew photos. Always with fast autos and tons of problems due to having control over them. I think all newbies have to start with photos. I am so glad that i am growing them.

darklordmelkor · Mar 20, 2023

RootsRuler said:
@CannaGranny - you can confirm this but when I was taught to defol the rule of thumb was anything 12 inches below the canopy gets removed. First 3 or 4 inches of the bottom of that 12 inches gets every other leaf removed, large water leaves took precedence for removal over younger leaves, and any leaves covering bud sites that can't be tucked under are removed. This was for a room running HID lighting so canopy penetration will be deeper.

For LED I would say canopy no deeper than 8" - 9". First 2" to 3" remove every other leaf and remove any covering bud sites that can't be tucked or folded away from the bud site.

I defoliated hand-size leaves. That was my first defolation. CannaGranny said i would cut more than this but it was my fault. I thought it could be stresful for them. But hell no. In 3 days, those half of finger size leaves became hand size again. I will defoliate them until my new seeds reach week 5. So at least i will defoliate 2-3 times more. Before starting 12/12 i will remove anything under trellis and go for flowerin (or i will do that in week 2 of flower. i will share pics and get CannaGranny's thoughts again).

CannaGranny · Mar 20, 2023

RootsRuler said:
@CannaGranny - you can confirm this but when I was taught to defol the rule of thumb was anything 12 inches below the canopy gets removed. First 3 or 4 inches of the bottom of that 12 inches gets every other leaf removed, large water leaves took precedence for removal over younger leaves, and any leaves covering bud sites that can't be tucked under are removed. This was for a room running HID lighting so canopy penetration will be deeper.

For LED I would say canopy no deeper than 8" - 9". First 2" to 3" remove every other leaf and remove any covering bud sites that can't be tucked or folded away from the bud site.

I agree and very well stated!

RootsRuler · Mar 20, 2023

RootsRuler said:
@CannaGranny - you can confirm this but when I was taught to defol the rule of thumb was anything 12 inches below the canopy gets removed. First 3 or 4 inches of the bottom of that 12 inches gets every other leaf removed, large water leaves took precedence for removal over younger leaves, and any leaves covering bud sites that can't be tucked under are removed. This was for a room running HID lighting so canopy penetration will be deeper.

For LED I would say canopy no deeper than 8" - 9". First 2" to 3" of the bottom of that 9" you remove every other leaf and remove any covering bud sites that can't be tucked or folded away from the bud site.

Just want to be clear for the newbs........

breedwheel · Mar 20, 2023

When I started my first grows I was terrified to cut anything off the plant because I would kill it. It does grow like a weed. They are really tough and can take a lot more punishment than you can imagine. Most of the plants I punished were from learning to mainline and tie down and breaking branches. I believe if your grow is healthy and dialed in you would almost have to work at killing it by trimming while in veg. I like the rule of thumb for defoliation mentioned above. I have always taken off 30% of the bottom of the canopy before flipping to flower. Lot's of folks freak out over defoliation in flower but I will thin my plants out every two weeks after flipping a lot more than most people but am happy with my results. Lot's of learning that can't be done until hands on. I never understood how scrogging and trellising worked until I tried it myself and watched it happen and thats the same with defolation IMO

RootsRuler · Mar 20, 2023

breedwheel said:
When I started my first grows I was terrified to cut anything off the plant because I would kill it. It does grow like a weed. They are really tough and can take a lot more punishment than you can imagine. Most of the plants I punished were from learning to mainline and tie down and breaking branches. I believe if your grow is healthy and dialed in you would almost have to work at killing it by trimming while in veg. I like the rule of thumb for defoliation mentioned above. I have always taken off 30% of the bottom of the canopy before flipping to flower. Lot's of folks freak out over defoliation in flower but I will thin my plants out every two weeks after flipping a lot more than most people but am happy with my results. Lot's of learning that can't be done until hands on. I never understood how scrogging and trellising worked until I tried it myself and watched it happen and thats the same with defolation IMO

I'm going with the defol prior to flip/defol 20 days in method this time to see what happens. I like to keep the foliage fairly sparse thoughout, kind of like you, so that I get lots of air going through the canopy but this time I'm going to leave a little more foliage on then I normally do to see what happens.

Imzzaudae · Mar 20, 2023

Leaves are food collectors for your plants. Light is the food that the leaves collect. I would not suggest that you defoliate at this time. I looked up your nutrients and I'm not all that crazy about it. I have great Veg with Hardware Store Pro Mix 12-6-6 1L Plastic Jug 1/2 strength at first then full strength when established. After Flipping and stretching buds start forming. Flower with Pro mix 5-15-5. Go very easy on the Cal Mag maybe 25% of suggested mix once a month. If you want to top the stalks and LST have at it now. Take the plant off just bellow the 4th node. Pin the branches down 2 east - west 2 North south, then never top again. Remove bottom set. The plant will put up many branches off the 4 main stalks and you can put them where you want them with LST and some string. Don't get in a hurry.

darklordmelkor · Mar 24, 2023

Okay time to update. We are at end of week 6 (day 42 since pop). Things are a bit scary lol.

New seeds arrived. Was ordered indica dom to keep them at same height. Anyway, germinated 4 seeds via paper towel. I was going to add 3 pots but i thought if i get 2 from 3 it's not my goal. So germinated 4 and all 4 popped. Today i planted them in solo cups. So approx 2 days later they are out.

But my 3 plants are being really huge now. After topping they are exploded. Bushy as hell again. I don't know after 4-5 weeks (new ones matured) how old ones will looks like lol.

@CannaGranny what do you think i should do one more defolation? They are huge again. I set my huge osciliating fan setting 2. Because they are very bushy again and probably setting 1 doesn't penetrate air through leaves to soil. I might get some wind burn after that i don't know. I am just watching them very close. But curious about your thoughts.

Feeding them 1.8EC with no problem btw. They take it so good. Little bud fans are being 3x size in 24 hours. They drink 7 liters of water every 4 days (4 days later they start to wilt tho then i water them). No signs of nute burn yet.

Mothman · Mar 24, 2023

darklordmelkor said:
Okay time to update. We are at end of week 6 (day 42 since pop). Things are a bit scary lol.

New seeds arrived. Was ordered indica dom to keep them at same height. Anyway, germinated 4 seeds via paper towel. I was going to add 3 pots but i thought if i get 2 from 3 it's not my goal. So germinated 4 and all 4 popped. Today i planted them in solo cups. So approx 2 days later they are out.

But my 3 plants are being really huge now. After topping they are exploded. Bushy as hell again. I don't know after 4-5 weeks (new ones matured) how old ones will looks like lol.

@CannaGranny what do you think i should do one more defolation? They are huge again. I set my huge osciliating fan setting 2. Because they are very bushy again and probably setting 1 doesn't penetrate air through leaves to soil. I might get some wind burn after that i don't know. I am just watching them very close. But curious about your thoughts.

Feeding them 1.8EC with no problem btw. They take it so good. Little bud fans are being 3x size in 24 hours. They drink 7 liters of water every 4 days (4 days later they start to wilt tho then i water them). No signs of nute burn yet.

View attachment 1343996
View attachment 1343997
View attachment 1344000
View attachment 1344001

Your plants look fine to me, although the apparent density of the canopy is making me nervous.

I’d clip some of those really big fan leaves spreading across the top of the canopies. They are beneficial, but if they’re blocking light from the junior buds and branches underneath, I’d either tuck ‘em down or snip. And I’m not one to casually cut big fan leaves.

Buds are the goal. Leaves are the means to an end.

darklordmelkor · Mar 24, 2023

Mothman said:
Your plants look fine to me, although the apparent density of the canopy is making me nervous.

I’d clip some of those really big fan leaves spreading across the top of the canopies. They are beneficial, but if they’re blocking light from the junior buds and branches underneath, I’d either tuck ‘em down or snip. And I’m not one to casually cut big fan leaves.

Buds are the goal. Leaves are the means to an end.

Topped once and LST'd. So canopy is very flat but they are 42 days old and i will veg them anohter 30 days to wait for new seeds become mature enough to flower. So my goal is filling 5x5 space. But woah they are really gonna be huge. I need a lot of fertz they are taking 1.8EC without any issue.

I think now i can expect some good yields lol.

darklordmelkor · Apr 2, 2023

Hello all.

Long time. It's been 9 days since last post and when i see that pictures i posted 9 days ago wow difference is huge. We are currently in week 8 (day 51 since pop)

@CannaGranny

Defoliate or not defoliate that's the question

Defoliate or not defoliate that's the question

darklordmelkor

darklordmelkor

CannaGranny

RootsRuler

breedwheel

RootsRuler

Imzzaudae

darklordmelkor

Mothman

darklordmelkor

darklordmelkor

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency