BlowinKK
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- Jun 8, 2020
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Thanks for the read, and great advice guys, learned something new today
The principle is the same but this is exactly what I was talking about with ppl using VPD wrong. They find an online chart and it doesn't match thier grow (leaf temps) which can vary greatly. This can cause huge issues if leaf temps are not properly calculated as it can drastically change the ideal humidity. That chart likely representative of LED with IR or HID at a bit higher distance.Here is a leaf pressure chart, notice how your temps go up, take note of the humidity required for maintaining leaf pressures... inverted exponential decline.
Looks like i'm on the sweet spot for late veg/early flower, i'm between 80-84°F with a steady 53-56% humidity as of now, we'll see how well the dehumidifier works with lights off outside the tent.Here is a leaf pressure chart, notice how your temps go up, take note of the humidity required for maintaining leaf pressures... inverted exponential decline.
Heat/humidity are like a vortex that suck your plant (gas pressures) down and with it, metabolism to a grinding halt.
There are so many factors. That chart is for leaf temps 4f cooler than air temps. You can see anywhere from 0-10f dcooler and even sometimes leaf temps could be higher although not often.Curious, which type of lights does this chart represent?
It doesn't matter what kind of lights, vpd and vpd charts don't take that into consideration. Aquaman's vpd thread really is a good read, the keys to vpd are leaf temp, ambient temp, and rh.Curious, which type of lights does this chart represent?
Alright, ill check it out nowThere are so many factors. That chart is for leaf temps 4f cooler than air temps. You can see anywhere from 0-10f dcooler and even sometimes leaf temps could be higher although not often.
To give you an idea if leaf temps are 78 (2f cooler) and room temps are 80 in late flower ideal humidity would be around 55%.
Now if leaf temps were 72 (8f cooler) and room temps are 80 in late flower ideal humidity would be around 38% for the same KPA. That almost 20% different.
Of course if this was the case you would want to run higher room temps to compensate.
Read the link I gave you if you want to understand.
This is more advanced stuff but I just wanted to show that you cannot go by online charts. If your going to use VPD you need to use it right or you can absolutely end up with issues leading to fungus and mold.
Cause you read that chart and thought your in the sweet spot... You may be but never trust an online chart when it comes to VPD.why the sad face?
I mean you can stick to basic growing guidelines of temp and humidity and it will work for you no problem... Many do so. But if you are going to try VPD then do it right or you may have issues is all I'm saying.I actually had ordered an infared thermometer to check leaf temps but it wouldnt turn on when it arrived :/
Nah you are totally right man, and it really doesnt seem to difficult to do if i use a IR thermometer every 12 hours and log my temp/humidity and calc the vpd with the method you posted it was really informative, and i'll follow it best that i can, the optimal leaf suface temperature is 78°F right?I mean you can stick to basic growing guidelines of temp and humidity and it will work for you no problem... Many do so. But if you are going to try VPD then do it right or you may have issues is all I'm saying.
Right about there yes.Nah you are totally right man, and it really doesnt seem to difficult to do if i use a IR thermometer every 12 hours and log my temp/humidity and calc the vpd with the method you posted it was really informative, and i'll follow it best that i can, the optimal leaf suface temperature is 78°F right?
Have a read. There is lots out there you just need to look past the mountain of old info. The reason ppl think 40% o think is due to not understanding how significant that humidity spike can be at lights out. This is why VPD got a bad rap from those ppl with the same view. That and it was largely used improperly.
By Mark June-Wells, Ph.D.
What Can Happen When Humidity Is Unbalanced?
Plants acquire carbon dioxide from the atmosphere in which they are growing; this requires that the plants open their stomata and capture carbon dioxide. Opening the stomata also causes water to be drawn up through the plant from roots to shoots to the leaves and, ultimately, the atmosphere. This process causes the plant to acquire water from the soil medium, which is laden with nutrients. Therefore, the following can occur if humidity is not balanced correctly:
1. With very low humidity, the plant is drawing water from the soil at a very high rate, and if the humidity is too low, the plant is unable to draw water at a rate equal to loss through the stomatal openings. The result is that the plants close their stomata, which slows the photosynthetic process (due to carbon limitations) and leads to stress, slow growth and compromised yield. Under severely low humidity, the plant will wilt and die because even its protective mechanisms cannot offset the water stress imposed by the lack of atmospheric water.
2. When humidity is too high, the rate at which plants draw water from the soil is reduced because transpiration is slowed by the smaller-than-normal water gradient between the plant and the atmosphere. This can result in diminished nutrient uptake efficiency, which can lead to nutrient deficiencies. This phenomenon is particularly evident in the uptake of calcium.
Additionally, saturated media pH has a tendency to climb over time, which can also result in many nutrients (e.g., metals, phosphorus and calcium) becoming unavailable to the plant because of altered chemical interactions under elevated pH conditions.
What Are Optimal Humidity Levels?
While cannabis cultivation research is a growing field, scientific evidence characterizing optimal growing conditions has not been fully explored. Fortunately, a vast body of research exists in the areas of indoor and greenhouse cultivation of many food species. Some of these food crops are suitable surrogates for determining potential cannabis cultivation conditions because of similarities in natural, physiological and environmental requirements.
The general humidity range for indoor cultivation appears to exist between 60% and 75% for all growth stages. When humidity surpasses 80%, particularly during the lights-off phase, a higher risk of fungal, bacterial and viral infections exists. Conversely, if humidity drops much below 50%, crop photosynthetic efficiency may be affected and yield will suffer.
Based on peer-reviewed research in the field of indoor/greenhouse produce cultivation, the following relative humidity (RH) conditions would be suitable for indoor/greenhouse cannabis cultivation.
Cloning: 70%-75% RH
Vegetation: 65%-70% RH
Flower: 60%-65% RH
Night phase of flower: 55%-60% RH
Tips: Always be sure to avoid stagnant air during all light and dark phases and swap air to reduce humidity/carbon dioxide levels during light-dark-phase transitions. Finally, be sure your temperatures are suitable for optimal plant growth during light-phases (75°-80°F) and slightly cooler temperatures during dark-phases (~70°F).
Mark June-Wells is laboratory director for Connecticut Pharmaceutical Solutions (CPS), one of four licensed medical cannabis producers in the state. Dr. June-Wells holds a Ph.D. in botany/plant ecology from Rutgers University, and has engineered CPS’ cannabinoid extraction efficiency and tracking programs, developed one of the largest production databases in the United States, and created efficient and repeatable production methods informed by rigorous data collection and statistical model building.
PM? Plant Mold?In short the best conditions for PM is low humidity during the day and high humidity at night. Avoid that and no issues
Powdery Mildew. Direct result of damp cool conditions. Good humidity regulation and air circulation will prevent it.PM? Plant Mold?
Powdery mildewPM? Plant Mold?
Yeah, I know all about that, its all over my squash now, I've got good air circulation (passive 4" fan on top with 2 vent pipes & 4 6" fans in the four corners of the 3'x4' tent) & think the plants seem otherwise dry (even during dark, nothing past low 60s at highest.). I just ordered a 6" line fan to dissipate the heat as my tent was cooking in the upper 80s today when I was at work & could not open the ports to vent.Powdery Mildew. Direct result of damp cool conditions. Good humidity regulation and air circulation will prevent it.
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