PPFD
@12" -1254 umoles/sq m
@24" - 400 umoles/sq m
Really great intensity at 6" it is a sick 2000.
This is at 200w
At 100w
@6" - 1330
@12"- 650
@18"- 280
@24"-120
Real nice numbers with light dimmed to 50% of full power
namaste

At

For those folks not wanting to diy build a 200w light I am willing to put it together for you non-dimmable (50% - 100%) internal just add your own plug.
namaste

Two years ago I did a thread on another website about mixing 5000k and 3500k using cobs balanced not one or the other and it increased growth after 12/12 flip as well as controlled stretch. There was a lot of support and positive expectation. I was not dissapointed.

Most horticulture industry uses opposite light spectrum as cannabis industry including flowers vegetables and fruits.

I experimented with 3000k 90cri mixed with the 5000k 80cri and. 3500k 80cri with 5000k 80cri. it is hard to tell which is better. But yes the 5000k gives more depth to the light better penetration.

Here is the results from the Samsung Calculator website
5000K
# of LED 192
Electrical Efficiency
Optical Efficiency
ΣFlux 8323 lm 15768 lm 38 lm
ΣPower 50.5 W 105.8 W 0.2 W
Efficacy 164.9 lm/W 149.1 lm/W 212.6 lm/W
ΣLES 3225.6 mm2 3225.6 mm2 16.8 mm2
ΣCost $0.38 $0.38 $0.00
3000K
# of LED 192
Electrical Efficiency
Optical Efficiency
ΣFlux 192 1 7776 lm 14731 lm 35 lm
ΣPower 50.5 W 105.8 W 0.2 W
Efficacy 154.1 lm/W 139.3 lm/W 198.6 lm/W
ΣLES 3225.6 mm2 3225.6 mm2 16.8 mm2
ΣCost $0.38 $0.38 $0.00
0.075 A 0.150 A 0.065 A
25 ℃ 25 ℃
79% 79% 100%
100% 100%
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/led/support/tools/calculator-pkg
combined at
100w 8326 = 7776 = 16102lm
200w 15768 + 14731 = 30,499lm
not bad
namaste

http://www.ledengin.com/files/articles/tunable_white_colors_control.pdf
Explore and control LED-based tunable-white lighting
Two-color sources can enable tunable-white light, explains
ISHITA GOSWAMI
, but more colors can
provide a broader tunable range, better quality light, and granular intensity control.
Solid-state lighting (SSL), leveraging white LEDs, has disrupted markets
for traditional lighting products for some time now. With the transition to this
energy-saving lighting technology, vendors have been able to offer cool, neutral, and warm white shades that have been quickly understood and accepted by consumers and professional buyers. But LED sources also afford luminaire manufacturers the ability to offer intelligent products that can be tuned to a desired CCT at any time by the user of a space. Let’s discuss why the time
is right for tunable LED-based products and how such products can be designed for optimum tuning range, light quality, and intensity control; and subsequently how such a product would be controlled.

Indeed, warmer white lighting, at lower correlated color temperatures or CCTs, is
known to help establish a comforting or relaxing environment, which many people welcome early in the morning or in an evening setting. Cool or neutral lighting at higher color temperatures, on the other hand, can have an invigorating effect and therefore is often preferred in contexts such as industrial workplaces, offices, or kitchens to help enhance concentration and maximize human productivity. But SSL can offer f lexibility beyond choosing a CCT based on a specific application
and accepted lighting practices.

With LEDs affording the opportunity to experiment with light in practical situations,
human responses to varying light specifications are becoming more widely under-
stood. Industry and academia are engaged in exploring, demonstrating, and validating the benefits of human-centric lighting (HCL) in applications such as hospitals, retail stores, schools, and offices. Consumers are ready for
tunable white lighting, opening the way for groups such as architects, interior designers, lighting specifiers, and facility managers to use their knowledge of the effects of different white shades to inf luence human moods and behavior and so establish even better environments for working, living, healing, buy-
ing, and spending leisure time.

Differences in tunable white sources White LEDs are fabricated either by phos-
phor conversion of blue or near-ultraviolet emission, or by mixing light from multiple red, green, and blue (RGB) monochromatic emitters. A combination of these two methods is also sometimes used. Adjusting the phosphor-coating composition or color mixing causes the characteristic of the white light to vary. A tunable-white light source is characterized by how many colors or whites are used
to achieve the final CCT. There are two, three, five, and even potentially seven color sources that can be mixed for tunable-white developments today, but the actual implementation depends on ease of use, quality, and cost.

The cool, neutral, and warm shades mentioned earlier are referred to as fixed
or static CCT white lighting. Typical CCT ranges for warm, neutral, and cool white are 2700–3000K, 4000–5000K, and 5000–6500K, respectively. Together, these CCT ranges define a continuum of tunable-white CCTs that would be perceived as being white.

In a few tunable-white light sources using three or more colors, these white CCTs lie along the daylight locus (DL) and black body locus (BBL) that traverse the long-established CIE (International Commission on Illumination) color space and those sources provide a higher-quality white as defined by CRI, the R9 CRI red sample, and the relatively new TM-30 color-fidelity metric published in
2015 by the Illuminating Engineering Society of America (IES; ).

Fig. 1, for example, charts the CRI and R9 values of a three-color Luxi Tune source over a broad range of CCTs. Other tunable-white color sources using a two-color cool-white and warm-white averaging effect are limited in the range over which they can deliver high CRI and high color fidelity.

Importance of path Each tunable-white solution has a predefined path or tuning profile. With three or more colors, it is possible to track the BBL as mentioned earlier and independently dim the intensity of the resulting white light. Two-color sources, on the other hand, follow a straight line over a limited tuning range, and the resulting f lux also has limitations due to the averaging effect of cool white and
warm white needed to strike the right CCT, which has to be compensated with adding more LEDs in the tuning mix.

Both options are currently considered suitable for creating tunable-white LED light
engines or modules. However, it is generally accepted that a high-quality white should have no more than a two standard deviation color matching (SDCM) variation along the tuning path. A two-color solution cannot meet this expectation over the entire range of 2700K–6500K CCTs. It is also recognized that true white may lie above, on, or below the BBL, depending on the observer. This f lexibility of a tuning curve that is offset above or below the BBL by design is not possible with a two-color solution. Based on research and customer feedback, LED Engin has established a path for its own tunable-white LuxiTune products, which is within 2 SDCM below the BBL over the 2100K–4300K range and gradually transitions toward the daylight locus from 4300K–6500K.

Fig. 2 illustrates this tuning range. Flexibility in creating ambience By adjusting in-source color mixing to follow a curve such as that shown in Fig. 2, it is possible to deliver tunable-white light sources that permit smooth adjustment between the limits of extremely cool (high CCT) to extremely warm (low CCT). Some sources also allow the intensity to be dimmed from 100% to as low as 0.5%, at each CCT over the tuning range. This is known as CCT tuning with deep dimming. Moreover, natural human responses to phenomena such as sunrise and sunset have conditioned people to expect tones to be cooler when lighting is brightest and to become warmer as lighting is dimmed. Accordingly, retailers or owners of venues such as bars or restaurants often seek to attract customers by presenting a cool and invigorating environment during daytime hours, while using lighting to create a warm glow moving into the evening. This is another version of tunable white known as warm dimming.

Moving forward from the CCT tuning and dimming options that are possible today, one potential next step for tunable-white lighting is to introduce control over color saturation. This is known as Du ́v ́ tuning as represented in Fig. 3. Du ́v ́ tuning requires three control handles for CCT, intensity, and saturation. LED Engin has demonstrated Du ́v ́ tuning within the 7-MacAdam-ellipse rectangles of the ANSI white space along iso-CCT lines, using a DMX controller.

Control requirements and wireless options The prospect of tunable-white lighting raises questions as to how users can apply settings or adjust the lighting to achieve the effects they desire. In fact, the adoption of tunable-white lighting is tightly linked to ease of use which is in turn determined by how intuitive the controls are. A color-aware user interface is required that allows the user to
set f lux levels and CCT directly without having to interpret what settings on the control- ler correspond to actual f lux and CCT output.

A suitable control strategy needs to have two handles, capable of controlling CCT and intensity, independently and simultaneously. The basic LuxiTune light engine uses two 0–10V controls; 0–10V has been around in the lighting industry for a while. Although LED Engin has used DMX (both 512A and RDM) successfully for tunable white, DMX is not widely used outside professional or stage lighting markets. DALI (digital addressable lighting interface) is another alternative that
is more popular in commercial markets, particularly in Europe. Currently, DALI protocols are available for managing one variable (Device Type 6, or DT6), or two (Device Type 8, or DT8), but DT8 devices cannot yet be certified by DALI.

The options for controlling tunable-white lighting continue to evolve and now include some important developments such as wireless connectivity. One opportunity may be to leverage the rapid pace of progress in the smart-building space. The ZigBee protocol has made some inroads in lighting. LED Engine has tested the tunable-white market with a ZigBee Home Automation (ZHA) enabled tunable-white solution. However, few if any ZHA controllers in the market today are suited for tunable-white applications as they lack the two separate handles for independently controlling intensity and CCT. Bluetooth Low Energy
(BLE) mesh network-ing promises advantages for tunable-white lighting including an end-to-end solution. Not only is it possible to have two independent control handles for CCT and intensity, the BLE control interface is user friendly, and lights can be controlled by an app on a smart device with touchscreen operation. Secure networks with four levels of access can be set up to control multiple light nodes that extend over large distances without requiring hubs or gateways, and can be controlled from a single terminal with minimal restriction on communication range.
Because all devices on a BLE network can advertise their presence and status, the
controlling app can be allowed to access all lighting fixtures and groups of fixtures.

This feature would help in commissioning and managing a network of tunable light fixtures in a commercial environment spread across several f loors. Moreover, autonomous coordination between nodes and the ability to incorporate input from sensors, would provide the opportunity to implement advanced features such as activating lights in sequence as a person walks along a corridor. LuxiTune with the BLE mesh option can incorporate all these advantages for luminaire developers.

The market for tunable-white lighting may yet be too young for manufacturers to back one wireless option over another. One effective way to give luminaire prod-
uct developers the f lexibility to have multiple connectivity choices is a modular design. You can realize a f lexible scenario by having a basic 0–10V driver that works with different modular control boards such as in the tunable-white light engine shown in Fig. 4. This allows a tunable-white solution to be assembled and commissioned with minimal effort by plugging the chosen control module into headers on the basic driver board.

Future of dynamic lighting Lighting designers, luminaire manufacturers, and end users have become familiar with the effects that can be achieved by dynamic white lighting. The market is now ready to accept tunable-white lighting products capable of supporting even more varied effects. Some products have already been
successfully realized. Other aspects need to come fully into place, such as the realization that dynamic lighting offers quantifiable benefits for applications in retail, healthcare, hospitality, commercial, and education. Control options for tunable white can be simplified with improvements such as BLE mesh, and intuitive controls are the key to enabling this exciting technology to deliver its full potential.

The above article explains the spectrum if you combine the spectrum's of 5000k and 3000k you complete the spectrum for plant growth.

5000K 80cri


3000K 80cri


The two spectrum compliment each other

I am asked regularly about mixed spectrum. I would like to offer the following. Plesae note the last sentence.

In more practical terms, these wavelengths encourage vegetative growth and are essential in lighting for seedlings and young plants during the vegetative stage of their growth cycle, especially when “stretching” must be reduced or eliminated. It also stimulates the production of secondary pigments which can enhance colors and is known to also stimulate Terpene (i.e. fragrance) production.

sixstring said:

vegas i like your approach and your open sourcing,co op stuff.but we gotta talk about that spectrum lol. i know 5000k is good to drive numbers up and decent for veg but with these diodes the spectrum is so full and balanced i feel its a step in the wrong direction mixing 5000k and 3000k.now if you mixed 2700k and 3500k or maybe even 4000k you would have my complete support. but even with vero cobs im finding 3000k 80 cri veg pot plants better than 6500k t5 lamps. my plants are just as tightly spaced node wise and grow faster under 3000k vero at 100w then they ever did under 6500k t5 at 320w in the same space.
but i have another question.is there a way to mix these colors without needing seperate channels? kinda like photon phantom does with the wavey boards just put 2 or 3 colors on the thing all run off one driver.i just dont think too many peope are going to want to have or need seperate control over colors on a board like this.most growers just want full power for 12 hours with some of us wanting dimming at sunrise and sunset.i have many other questions but ill wait till we get past these. be nice if you could space out the diodes and get away from heatsinking like photon does with his boards also. i know this is more like chilled boards and less like photon or hlg,but chilled and these boards being so packed together sure seems silly to have all that power on such a skinny board instead of spreading them out .

Click to expand...

The reason I went with separate channels is to maximize current usage. Each channel runs at 1 amp max. If I used all 384 diodes on one channel the total current draw would have to be twice as high 2-4 amps max current draw. I like lower current draws for efficiencies.

Another person had an entire board made with just 3000k. Everything is possible. I have had at least three people do their own runs with my design and are quite happy with the outcome. All my manufacturer does is call me for permission to use my design which I give willingly. They say I am a great trade partner. I am not in it to sell boards, just this is how I DIY. I have helped others to develop and discus their designs, as well.

I chose to mix the spectrum for a few reasons. First, 460nm, Royal Blue sends the signal to increase energy usage internally to the plant. Second, Royal Blue helps to increase branching and reduce elongation during flower phase. Finally, the 5000k gives a boost to the total spectrum increasing overall production and growth of the plants.

The 650nm Deep Red is well known for it's properties, photosynthesis, antioxidants, and improved flavors.

Having the mixed spectrum is an inexpensive manner to add 460nm spectrum. ChilLed tech boards are not cheap and WAVY boards are available. I am not trying to do them I am doing me.

I am looking into a companion board that delivers just Royal Blue and Deep Red color spestrum, to pair with a board with all 2700k on both channels, since I would have the Reds and Blues covered with a secondary spectrum board of two channels Royal Blue and Deep Red.

The board can be wired with both channels in series using a single 185H-C1050B driver, which is what I normally do allowing easy control for dimming. I also can use two 120H-C1050B drivers for separate channel controls to get the same.

I have found the dimensions of 4" x 16" covers a 2x2 area easily. I use one board in a 2x2 and two boards in a 2x4 area with great results. I have one board that covers two SIPs containers, Earth Boxes quite easily, and another that covers 18" x48" quite well also. very flexible

I also use additional spectrum such as 700nm Far Red for circadian cycles.

I use a GrowGreen Controller for sunrise/sunset effects similar to other boards, that also dims and schedules times for veg and flower. Of course any controller that can provide 0-10v and 5v pwm dimming can do the same thing. I just like to DIY everything I use.

thanks for dropping by. I have been busy and do not check in too often.
I hope this answers some of your questions.

AvidLerner said:

For those folks not wanting to diy build a 200w light I am willing to put it together for you non-dimmable (50% - 100%) internal just add your own plug.
namaste

Click to expand...

I'd be up for it. I really just want to buy two of these

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60679...w.html?spm=a2706.7835515.1998800312.28.3IkDJh

How many watts are these lights?

Would all I need to do is buy two, plug in and hang??

CBDfutute4 said:

I'd be up for it. I really just want to buy two of these

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60679...w.html?spm=a2706.7835515.1998800312.28.3IkDJh

How many watts are these lights?

Would all I need to do is buy two, plug in and hang??

Click to expand...

These are Vero29's from Jerry at Kingbright. nice guy. They wattage varies by type or model. I am not a Vero expert, but I am sure sixstrings can help you out with that. I used cxb cobs for two years and moved on to Samsung LM561c diodes now.

I chose a pcb format to get a good amount of diodes in an area I wanted without having to place them all myself.

I had heat issues with cob's which is why I moved on. Now I use the same ventilations equipmewnt and I have air to spare, less heat, less stress. lesson learned.

good luck I think there4 is a thread here on Vero's you can ask.

AvidLerner said:

These are Vero29's from Jerry at Kingbright. nice guy. They wattage varies by type or model. I am not a Vero expert, but I am sure sixstrings can help you out with that. I used cxb cobs for two years and moved on to Samsung LM561c diodes now.

I chose a pcb format to get a good amount of diodes in an area I wanted without having to place them all myself.

I had heat issues with cob's which is why I moved on. Now I use the same ventilations equipmewnt and I have air to spare, less heat, less stress. lesson learned.

good luck I think there4 is a thread here on Vero's you can ask.

Click to expand...

Do u think those are decent stand alone lights ??

I don't know much aside timber has a two vero setups id love but the cheaper one is 330 plus shipping.

These would be less than half which makes them appealing.

CBDfutute4 said:

Do u think those are decent stand alone lights ??

I don't know much aside timber has a two vero setups id love but the cheaper one is 330 plus shipping.

These would be less than half which makes them appealing.

Click to expand...

you would have to ask Vero folks. I am biased towards cob's now. I retired cob's as old technology, too hot, not worth the time and money, as the electric bill is too high, room too hot, too many fans, etc.

I would leave cob's alone and move on to more efficient leds, as cob's use more amps, increased amps means higher kwh and bill, hot means more fans and exhaust and more electricity usage, gets too hot need ac. Not much different than the old HPS lights I used to use with heat issues. COB's run over 35w make a lot of heat, 50w more heats, 75w even more heat, 100w more heat. Higher wattage more heat from radiant light and heat loss due to operation.

Sorry I can not help you with your cob choice.

AvidLerner said:

you would have to ask Vero folks. I am biased towards cob's now. I retired cob's as old technology, too hot, not worth the time and money, as the electric bill is too high, room too hot, too many fans, etc.

I would leave cob's alone and move on to more efficient leds, as cob's use more amps, increased amps means higher kwh and bill, hot means more fans and exhaust and more electricity usage, gets too hot need ac. Not much different than the old HPS lights I used to use with heat issues. COB's run over 35w make a lot of heat, 50w more heats, 75w even more heat, 100w more heat. Higher wattage more heat from radiant light and heat loss due to operation.

Sorry I can not help you with your cob choice.

Click to expand...

What have you moved on to? I want to keep up with technology

Just what you see here on this thread. Samsung LM561C diodes. I use them on my two channel 200w 192diodes per channel for 384 diodes on the board. This is the present now. COB's are the old technology. Samsung LM561C has high output medium power requirements, amps to highest is 88mA average draw amps is 150-175mA for 170lm/w to 190lm/w pretty impressive numbers against COB's and much less heat. At 100w I can run passive cooling with a 5.886"X18" heat sink. At b200w I have to use active cooling.

Much less heat to remove and much less electricity to get the lm/w output well above COB's.

Check ouyt the thread and let me know what you think.

I have a web site also. I can share the link with you, but you will have to DM me for it. I get in trouble posting links about my activities here or other web sites.
peace

I have been working again. I have designed and developed two new boards. Both ofhte4se boards are based on the Lumileds Luxeon SunPlus 20 series.

The first board is a two channel 75w Deep Red:Royal Blue 2:1 ratio two channel ech channel can be driven by a MW lpc-60-1050 non-dimmable driver for great red and blue channel for any setup using white light, be it cob's or qb's.

The scond board is a Far Red and UVA board another 65w board. The Far Red channels can bew driven by a lpc-60-1050 non-dimmable driver and the uva channel can be connected in series with the blue channel for three total channels available One Red, One Blue/UVA and one Far red;circadian channel.

These boards are 1" x 12" in size and use a 2.42" X 12" heat sink with a c/w of 5.9 minimum each board.

These will be available within the next thirty days on my website only.

namaste

I have been asked about how I design my strip lights so, I did a blog on designing and building flexible led strip lights here -> https://growgreenled.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/diy-flexible-strip-light-project/

AvidLerner said:

you would have to ask Vero folks. I am biased towards cob's now. I retired cob's as old technology, too hot, not worth the time and money, as the electric bill is too high, room too hot, too many fans, etc.

I would leave cob's alone and move on to more efficient leds, as cob's use more amps, increased amps means higher kwh and bill, hot means more fans and exhaust and more electricity usage, gets too hot need ac. Not much different than the old HPS lights I used to use with heat issues. COB's run over 35w make a lot of heat, 50w more heats, 75w even more heat, 100w more heat. Higher wattage more heat from radiant light and heat loss due to operation.

Sorry I can not help you with your cob choice.

Click to expand...

Very surprised you had heat issues with cobs cxb's. Mine cobs (3590)run very cool, and too cool in the winter. Hardly any radiant heat and these a run a 70 watts each. Not knocking What you are trying out now as I am trying out a QB board in veg and like it so far. They are the newest led tech but we have yet to see the lifespan of the new samsung strip lighting.

Rootbound said:

Very surprised you had heat issues with cobs cxb's. Mine cobs (3590)run very cool, and too cool in the winter. Hardly any radiant heat and these a run a 70 watts each. Not knocking What you are trying out now as I am trying out a QB board in veg and like it so far. They are the newest led tech but we have yet to see the lifespan of the new samsung strip lighting.

Click to expand...

Tech changes and strip lights are an easy diy vs pcb designs. Same diode LM561C s6 bin 2.8 to 2.9 vf 200lm/w @88ma. Whether it is a strip or pcb still same potential. Plenty of folks having great success with hard strips.
I am having some custom hard strips made with Lumileds luxeon SunPlus 20 series.

Rootbound said:

Very surprised you had heat issues with cobs cxb's. Mine cobs (3590)run very cool, and too cool in the winter. Hardly any radiant heat and these a run a 70 watts each. Not knocking What you are trying out now as I am trying out a QB board in veg and like it so far. They are the newest led tech but we have yet to see the lifespan of the new samsung strip lighting.

Click to expand...

The key to efficiencies includes what size driver how many amps killowatts cost monthly. Nowadays power company provides daily weekly monthly usage and trends. Operating cost is as important as build cost.
Pcb creates less heat fewer air changes needed to maintain temps fewer devices lowers operating costs as well.
With a GrowGreen board I only use passive cooling to maintain temps for 200w in a 2x2 tent could not do that with my cxb's 4 at 200w.