Drooping leaves

Crysmatic · Aug 29, 2010

These are dr atomic's northern lights x blueberry from seed, grown outdoors. germinated june 6. they are about 4-5' tall, and 3-4' wide. they're in 5 gal buckets in pro mix bx.
i water about every other day when the buckets feel light. i use tap water (8.0 pH .34 mS) and adjust to 1.0 mS and 6.0 pH. the soil's pH seems to be about 7.0.
i'm using a diy mix of 3-1-4. i usually feed them 4L, which doesn't run off.
days are mid 20s, and night drop to mid teens (celcius). humidity varies from 40-50% on most days.
i'm not a total noob, but i can't manage plants in soilless for more than a couple months. i can't tell whether i'm over or underfeeding. the leaves are drooping, and since they were just watered, i'm assuming overwatering. how do i avoid this if i have to flush the buckets? i also noticed that they don't like large pH swings.

any thoughts how i can make them healthy again?

Seamaiden · Aug 30, 2010

Good question. I have the same sort of thing happening with some, but not all, of my perlite hempy girls, which are also OD. We've had a very strange cool spell the last three days, too. Fed/watered yesterday and two of them are quite drooped.

Droopy leaves may indicate a problem with the roots (that overwater situation), but when I dig down to check mine they look pretty good. The containers they're in are too large for me to pull them out, I'd kill 'em if I tried, but you might be able to tip a bucket over and just gently slide one out to see if the roots look alright.

Nothing I know of likes a large pH swing, at least nothing I've handled that's immersed in it. Big swings can kill in my world, so I avoid them.

Crysmatic · Aug 30, 2010

i guess i'll keep watering with a light feed, and keep pH around 5.8. maybe they don't like the molasses i started giving them? maybe i mixed my nutes incorrectly?

they need water today, and they're drooping really bad. i just want the leaves to point to the sky again.

Seamaiden · Aug 30, 2010

When was the last time they had a really good soaking? You mentioned there has been no run-off. Perhaps they need to get a water or two in where there's a good bit of run-off.

I honestly don't know, though, it's just what I would try.

Tobor the 8th Man · Aug 30, 2010

Look at the main stem and see if there is a pile or lump of saw dust/paper lint looking stuff. Sometimes you get a stem boring worm that is living in the center of the main stem or a big side branch. Where he first bored in the stem the inside chewed up pulp will be pushed out at that spot. It can be quite a ways up and a marble to a golf ball size of pulp dust.

swisscheese · Aug 30, 2010

I have one plant doing the same thing if I can get any good pics I'll post it up. Will be checking for the worms tonight it was my healthiest plant and now it looks a chump.

Crysmatic · Aug 30, 2010

here's a pic from yesterday - it wasn't bone dry, so it's not drooping from underwatering. it obviously needed water this morning.

i gave them a good soaking with 6L pH'd water 3 days ago. that's when they really started drooping. i watered them with 6L fnb today, 1.14 mS, ~5.0 pH, and got run off. the top of the soil ph is around 7, and the run off from today's watering is below 6 (according to my litmus drops). i thought maybe salts were building up, and i was going to hit them with clearex, and let it run off.

i shouldn't have dressed the tops with used coffee grinds (free at starbucks). it's adding acidity and a little nitrogen.

i'll look at the stems more closely tobor. it's all four plants, to some degree.

thanks for all the input guys!

Tobor the 8th Man · Aug 30, 2010

Why is the base of the trunk looking like all the bark is scraped off? It isn't ringed all the way around like that is it?

SmokeyPipes · Aug 30, 2010

You could have some dry zones in your root ball from not being watered evenly,especially with those white buckets,the outside walls are probably drying out to quick,maybe you might want to transplant to a bigger pot.you defenetly still have time and she will only benefit from it

Element4NorCal · Aug 30, 2010

White or semi-transparent buckets let light leak through and damage roots. Your plant may also need to be transplanted.
You never want to use coffee grounds in your plants as that can cause acidity to rise each time moisture is introduced. Plus there is no point in feeding them ph balanced water if the coffee grounds are just going to lower ph as the ph balanced water runs through the grounds.

First scrape off the top layer of soil that has coffee grounds in it. Then go to your local hydro shop and get a half gallon bag of Vermicrop Organics Solution $10 and feed your plants with it mixed according to directions on bag and also mix up a foliar spray with the Vermicrop as well. this is great stuff and will help your plants pop back to vigorous growth.

you can also get some coco cat and add a couple of drops per gallon to reduce stress.

Jay frost

Seamaiden · Aug 31, 2010

Tobor the 8th Man said:
Why is the base of the trunk looking like all the bark is scraped off? It isn't ringed all the way around like that is it?

Yeah... that looks like something chewed through the xylem. If that's the case... oh man. Or is it a trick of the light? I can't tell.

Crysmatic · Aug 31, 2010

Tobor the 8th Man said:
Why is the base of the trunk looking like all the bark is scraped off? It isn't ringed all the way around like that is it?

what do you mean by 'bark'? i've not scraped anything off. those 'rings' are nodes. i've trimmed the lower 1/3 of the plant per dr atomic to increase bud size.

SmokeyPipes said:
You could have some dry zones in your root ball from not being watered evenly,especially with those white buckets,the outside walls are probably drying out to quick,maybe you might want to transplant to a bigger pot.you defenetly still have time and she will only benefit from it

i'm watering every second or third day. i've said before that the buckets look small. i agree a 10 gal pot will help.

Element4NorCal said:
White or semi-transparent buckets let light leak through and damage roots. Your plant may also need to be transplanted.
You never want to use coffee grounds in your plants as that can cause acidity to rise each time moisture is introduced. Plus there is no point in feeding them ph balanced water if the coffee grounds are just going to lower ph as the ph balanced water runs through the grounds.

First scrape off the top layer of soil that has coffee grounds in it. Then go to your local hydro shop and get a half gallon bag of Vermicrop Organics Solution $10 and feed your plants with it mixed according to directions on bag and also mix up a foliar spray with the Vermicrop as well. this is great stuff and will help your plants pop back to vigorous growth.

you can also get some coco cat and add a couple of drops per gallon to reduce stress.

Jay frost

my fault for adding the coffee. i'm trying to control pH and EC, then i add a variable with the coffee. the other plant in a white bucket is probably my best...a black bucket couldn't hurt.

thanks for the input guys! i think a flush with straight tap water hurt them. i'll keep a closer watch on pH, and let more run off. they're looking much better today. the worst plant has leaves about horizontal, and the best plants have leaves pointing to the sky.

Seamaiden · Aug 31, 2010

Be careful using black bodies like that--they can and will cook roots, especially in soil. I can speak at some length as to what happens using black plastic pots when it gets hot. I would do nothing more with that than perhaps wrap something around it so as to help block light.

Back to what Tobor pointed out...

What is this? It looks like something has taken off the outer skin (aka bark) at the base. Rodents will do this and if that is indeed such damage, that explains what the most likely reason is for the drooping, because the plant cannot adequately transport water and nutrients through the damaged xylem.

I've circled in red what it is Tobor and I are looking at. Is it a trick of the light?

Crysmatic · Aug 31, 2010

i do have chipmunks, but all they do is bury seeds. the sun is on the right side, the leaves shade the trunk, and the shape of the trunk shades itself. the trunk looks fine in person. no holes with sawdust, as tobor suggested.

budboy299 · Aug 31, 2010

alot of times I get salt build up that looks similar to that, right at the base.
always remember that water will evaporate from the soil but salts cannot. The only way excess salt is washed out of soil is though runoff. Salts will keep building until they become toxic. Always feed till runoff and even then its good to have 30 or more percent runoff. Especially if your using diy nutes....its cheap enough to do so.

Crysmatic · Aug 31, 2010

that's just perlite budboy. i'm watering them tomorrow with a connoisseur + big bud type fert. i need to keep pH really low...the pH of the run off from my 5.0 watering was 7.5 :S

what's the next step up from a 20L bucket? the 10gal pot at the store is too short. should i use a 75L garbage pail? next outdoor run, i'll use a 40L rubbermaid.

Seamaiden · Sep 1, 2010

I see that much better now, thank you. I even held a magnifying glass up to the other picture and I just couldn't make it out. Went to a friend's place in Mendo on Saturday and they had all KINDS of girls whose trunk bases had been chewed extensively by rodents, a few looked like our girls have been doing with the droopy leaves.

So, if you're gonna transplant, what if you just opened up the bag of soil and dropped her in that? Save yourself a coupla bucks?

Crysmatic · Sep 2, 2010

i shudder to think about rodent damage :(

thanks for all of your help! they look happy, and I'm sure they'll last through to harvest, in about 4-5 weeks. never forget the basics.

Tobor the 8th Man · Sep 2, 2010

Heck they are the picture of health now.

Urbanfarmer.705 · Sep 27, 2020

Was it rootbound at all when you transplanted?? Seems like up potting fixed things up

Drooping leaves

Drooping leaves

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Tobor the 8th Man

swisscheese

Guest

Crysmatic

Attachments

Tobor the 8th Man

SmokeyPipes

Element4NorCal

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Attachments

Crysmatic

Attachments

budboy299

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Crysmatic

Attachments

Tobor the 8th Man

Urbanfarmer.705

Drooping leaves

Drooping leaves

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Tobor the 8th Man

swisscheese

Guest

Crysmatic

Attachments

Tobor the 8th Man

SmokeyPipes

Element4NorCal

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Attachments

Crysmatic

Attachments

budboy299

Crysmatic

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Crysmatic

Attachments

Tobor the 8th Man

Urbanfarmer.705

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency