i use the hydroton but if you want to use new media each time you might try rockwool in large bags ,just a thought ,i like the hydroton ,but cleaning it sucks

Cleaning hydroton sucks ass, but if you grow trees, with less plants there is less hydroton to clean. Just something to think about.

Hydroton works great in the ebb and flow bucket systems. Poor, rotting roots may mean your coir was staying to moist or you were flooding to often.

With hydroton we flood about once every 3 hours for 15-30 minutes depending on the number of buckets. If there are many buckets, it will take 30 mins for them to fill up.

I've ran that same system for years and ended up buying a couple medical equipment air pumps and ran the air to the end of the hydroponic lines, so that air blows through the buckets back towards the control bucket. The air blows for 5 minutes every 3 hours and is offset to avoid blowing when the buckets are in flood. This remedy helped a bunch and now the roots are pure white like snow.

Plus, it helps aerate that water that remains in the buckets after the flood. It also stirs up any fert sediment in the bottoms of the buckets.

Hoped that helped.

using Sunleaves "rocks that dont roll" in 2 E&G setups now. easier then hydroton and cheaper. hydroton works great but i'm sticking with the rocks from now on.

You can use pea gravel or red volcano rock even in a pinch, but I like hydroton because the big round hydroton rocks keep much air space between them which is great for the roots.

I've noticed there are different diameters of hydroton, go for the largest if you have a choice.

Big chunks of perlite just float and would clog your pumps.

yes perlite is no good for flood and drain or ebb and flow,as curb feeler said it floats, hydroton is the baby i drilled loads of holes in a plastic trash bin and wash them in that, still get an inch of mud from dust at the bottom of my bath when cleaning them!!

Yes hydroton is the answer. I think I will use the air hoses to help inside the buckets. That sounds like a very efficient way to help them dry out and stay oxygenated.
Curb Feeler, do you have any pics of how you have your air hoses ran through your flood lines?

whats up hp850, my buckets have a slightly smaller in-sert to hold the hydroton, with aN INCH GAP at the bottom were the feed water floods in ive put an air stone in there with the air line coming up through the hydroton out the top works pukka,alternatively my pal has an air cage at the bottom in amomgst the hydroton works well to:pimp:

check out the Sentinel drip bucket system. not sure if it's out yet but it drains from the bottom and it gives you the option of doing drip to waste or ebb and flow.

http://www.horticulturesource.com/s...8800/?osCsid=f68d32c5f08ffd56ce08c15397a6c263

I do not have any pictures of my system currently, but it's pretty simple. I run two rows of 6 buckets at the end of the row away from the res and control bucket, I insert a "T" and connect the two rows, then run that "T" with the regular hydro hose back to a raised (to prevent water from entering the air pump) medical grade air pump. Then have a digital timer that can be programmed down to one minute intervals up to 8 times per day. I set mine at 5 minutes as a test, which equals the pump being on for 40 minutes daily.

I did however find that my pump is strong enough to bubble all 12 buckets during flood, so I no longer worry about offsetting their flood times.

The great thing about the Green Trees (www.hydroponics.net) is that you could easily modify it into a top-feed hydro ystem if you prefer. The "fill" line could be ran to the top of the pot, either a dripper or a simple hole drilled to water each pot. It's an easy and very versatile system. When adding the air-injection, I came up with the top-dripping option, but have yet to try it personally, but don't see why it wouldn't work.

I was very lucky to find a pair of great air pumps that make the ebb and flow buckets system even better.

Hey horsepower this is also my first time with the E&G system im using one bucket the plant is in 2x2 inch rockwool and then the pot fill with hydroton I like it so far but just a heads up the hydroton if u dont wash it first it is really dirty and will make ur res. super dirty.
The reason I chose rockwool and hydroton was because..
Rockwool retains water so if power outta or pump problems u have more time before plant dries out It holds 18% air. practically impossible to over water.
I chose hydroton because it works in replacement of gravel. the pellets dont hold ANY water each pellet has air pockets like lava rocks:)

Curb Feeler said:

Cleaning hydroton sucks ass, but if you grow trees, with less plants there is less hydroton to clean. Just something to think about.

Hydroton works great in the ebb and flow bucket systems. Poor, rotting roots may mean your coir was staying to moist or you were flooding to often.

With hydroton we flood about once every 3 hours for 15-30 minutes depending on the number of buckets. If there are many buckets, it will take 30 mins for them to fill up.

I've ran that same system for years and ended up buying a couple medical equipment air pumps and ran the air to the end of the hydroponic lines, so that air blows through the buckets back towards the control bucket. The air blows for 5 minutes every 3 hours and is offset to avoid blowing when the buckets are in flood. This remedy helped a bunch and now the roots are pure white like snow.

Plus, it helps aerate that water that remains in the buckets after the flood. It also stirs up any fert sediment in the bottoms of the buckets.

Hoped that helped.

Click to expand...

that is why i hated the cap ebb and flow...sounds like you found a good workaround...i use homemade aeroflows now....talk about white roots...big roots=big fruits

Cap has angled buckets now to help with the draining. Im starting a cycle in a couple of days so we will see how it goes with the buckets.

Has anyone seen or purchased the Sentinel system yet? Did it ever even hit the market?

CAP Ebb & grow bucket system suck. Just as much as CAP does as a company. Yes they have "upgraded" those buckets 3 times soo far, but they are too ignorant to figure out what is wrong. I do not know about coco in those buckets. Even with hydroton that system is the nesting ground for Gnats. Root problems are normal with CAP E&G beacouse of poor design coused by ignorant people designing grow. equipment.
Anyway....I would say go with the hydroton, also I'll give you "short" list of the things that you should modify in the order to get that "bucket" system to work.
1.repipe system with 1", or at least 3/4" pipe(hose)
2.change to a bigger pumps.
3.upgrade the buckets to 3 1/2 or 5 gal buckets with covers with 8" mesh baskets.
4.instal large volume air pump and run air stone or a diffuser into every bucket.
5.take 1" pvc pipe and cut it into 1" pieces. Use those as a spacers(put those in between inner and outer buckets) so your roots do not seat in that nasty stagnate stinky watter. I would like to get a chance to feed one of those fat asses from CAP with that nastiness to see how would they like it, becouse my plants didn't.
6.do NOT put any "bennies" in you tank (reservoir), acctualy do not put anything in the powder form in your tank. It will eventually clog the lines.
7.do NOT use anything that will foam up your tank 'couse it will couse overflow sensor to stick, and you'll find yourself picking up your nutes off the floor 2-3 times a week.
8.Do NOT even think about going organic, Ebb& Grow in not even able to finnish a run with salts in it's original configuration.
There is more to it.
Use caution any time you dealing with CAP, seems that they have a lots of quality control problems lately. I went thruu 3 CO2 generators from CAP, got 'em new at the store, none of them worked out of the box. Their controler XCg-1 or whatever its called, stoped working on me after 4 weeks.
No problems after I have changed everything to "Sentinel". They also have a new "bucket" system. It seems that "sentinel" actually have some idea about what is needed in the order for plant to "survive". Haven't seen it but by the spec. it seems that sentinel system is drasticaly improved when compared to CAP.

The only mods I've made to my Ebb and Grow is to mess with the level of the contol bucket in relation to the plant buckets and shim up the side of the plant bucket away from the drain line. My controller is 1.5 inches lower than my plant buckets once I get roots popping out of my net pots. Oh, I tossed their inner buckets and use 8" net pots. The root problem I had was not enough room for roots in the stock bucket full of hydroton. I put a small mag pump in the rez tank to keep it turning over as well.

With a bit of brain work and elbow grease you can make the system kick out some fine plants,

I like the Greentrees 2 gal blue buckets.......You don't need the 5 galloners that some systems have....I like to use 3" styrofoam pieces that I get from the sound proofing department at home depot to put underneath the buckets.....It's like $5 for 15 buckets worth... I just break them into 1' by 1' squares......Raising the buckets higher than the controller, allows for a lot less water sitting in the 2nd bucket between waterings...thus healthier roots..... and styrofoam slides easily on the floor, allowing for easy movement of the plants....they are also mold proof.....I prefer the buckets to trays cuz there is no height issue and they are easier to clean between runs......H&G's full line, AN supplements, and the blue buckets have never let me down....a good combo..........Peace

what seems like forever ago i purchased this system liking the concept and flexibility of how you can arrange your footprint. i grew 3 harvests out of 48 buckets and was not once satisfied with root quality(heavy root rot due to one inch of stagnate water in the top and bottom bucket), yield or overall quality of hardware included with the CAP system (breaking t's, crappy 1/2 inch tubing and NOTHING that fully drains from the controller box to the buckets themselves) and would only recommend using it if its all you have added to the gamble. a few things that might help you if you absolutely have to use it is buy some 2 gallon smart pots they fit perfectly into the CAP systems buckets and will air prune your roots so they dont rest in the stagnant water and develop stinky root rot and clog your undersized irrigation system, also add a air diffuser and pump to your reservoir on a set timer 15 minutes before each feeding to keep nutrients and powder solutions from settling at the bottom of your rez, keep feedings as minimal as possible. i also checked out the sentinel system and think that they might have perfected the craft of that system but am too caught up in my under current to ever look back, but if your budget is low and you want a high effiency system i would honestly say go with a top feed table system due to the system only uses whats needed and saturates every inch of your root media. Hope that helped a little good luck bro

HookedonPonics said:

what seems like forever ago i purchased this system liking the concept and flexibility of how you can arrange your footprint. i grew 3 harvests out of 48 buckets and was not once satisfied with root quality(heavy root rot due to one inch of stagnate water in the top and bottom bucket), yield or overall quality of hardware included with the CAP system (breaking t's, crappy 1/2 inch tubing and NOTHING that fully o

Click to expand...

I don't like the idea of 5 gal buckets that CAP has....Greentrees 2 gallons are plenty.......If you use SM90 or Root Excel, raise the buckets, and your root mass has filled the bottom bucket.... You shouldn't have a rot problem...Were you using coco? Cause I could see a rot problem there...You gotta use rock so you can water at least 3 times a day....water won't get stagnate that way....I think it takes a while to get the hang of the bucket system....It's kinda fickle and different environments require different adjustments......Once you get the hang of it............ tis a great system............. Peace

Curb Feeler said:

Cleaning hydroton sucks ass, but if you grow trees, with less plants there is less hydroton to clean. Just something to think about.

Hydroton works great in the ebb and flow bucket systems. Poor, rotting roots may mean your coir was staying to moist or you were flooding to often.

With hydroton we flood about once every 3 hours for 15-30 minutes depending on the number of buckets. If there are many buckets, it will take 30 mins for them to fill up.

I've ran that same system for years and ended up buying a couple medical equipment air pumps and ran the air to the end of the hydroponic lines, so that air blows through the buckets back towards the control bucket. The air blows for 5 minutes every 3 hours and is offset to avoid blowing when the buckets are in flood. This remedy helped a bunch and now the roots are pure white like snow.

Plus, it helps aerate that water that remains in the buckets after the flood. It also stirs up any fert sediment in the bottoms of the buckets.

Hoped that helped.

Click to expand...

Even though this is a old thread I would just like to add that- the target flood time should be under 15 minutes no matter how large the system. You achieve it by larger water pumps/controller bucket, a large diameter main water run (say 3” pvc)that tees off to secondary waterline runs (say 1” or 2”pvc) that connects to your 3/4” tubing to the bucket sites...that is just a rough idea of how to efficiently flood your large ebb and flow bucket system..it’s all about the volume of water needed to the sites with under a 15 minute target...it’s simple math and is easier and cheaper then you think...The whole point in using flood and drain is the quick floods to maximize the oxygen to the root zone..30 minute floods is well below ideal...