Ethics In Breeding

Dunge · Jan 28, 2018

motz said:
Interested in hearing more about your akfire @Dunge

Gladly-
got a Neville's Haze male in preflower
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/got-a-nevilles-haze-male-in-preflower.57127/
The title is a bit misleading, but this was start of my AKMango project started in 2013.

The idea was to mate the most sativa plant I could grow to the most indica plant.
It has worked out nicely.
As of late I have been using AKMango pollen to hit some keepers.
AKFire being the result of one of these crosses.
This very conversation makes me hesitant to divulge the providence of the "Fire" part of this name.
I was a keeper, grown from a very expensive pack of seed.
I will be growing these out periodically to see what traits and stability I can see.
Small garden, so progress is slow.

motz · Jan 29, 2018

So your Ak must be special, aye?
I see you've used it in a couple crosses.

Dunge · Jan 29, 2018

motz said:
So your Ak must be special, aye?
I see you've used it in a couple crosses.

I got lucky with this cross, and am trying to exploit it where possible.
The easiest is f1 crosses with keepers. So this is where I'm presently engaged.
Exploring f3 plants is lots more work, many more plants, and organizationally complicated, when grown in a basement production garden.
I have been pleased by how easily controlled the pollen has proven to be.
Have yet to find a seed beyond my selected buds.
I'm currently a few months into a pollen preservation trial.
Just leaving it out in the garage in the wide open. I'm hoping pollen can't get too dry.
Plan to keep using it each cycle to produce one bud's worth of the same f1 seeds each cycle until is fails.
I'm getting about 50 seeds off a top bud pollinated at 4 weeks.
Note: mark seed buds well because after harvest, markers can get lost in the process.
And forgetting how many seeded buds to find requires review of notes.
All done while enjoying the challenges of Mary's distractions.
I believe smoking on the job results in many of the confusions resulting from seed purchases.

incogneato · Jan 29, 2018

Dunge said:
I got lucky with this cross, and am trying to exploit it where possible.
The easiest is f1 crosses with keepers. So this is where I'm presently engaged.
Exploring f3 plants is lots more work, many more plants, and organizationally complicated, when grown in a basement production garden.
I have been pleased by how easily controlled the pollen has proven to be.
Have yet to find a seed beyond my selected buds.
I'm currently a few months into a pollen preservation trial.
Just leaving it out in the garage in the wide open. I'm hoping pollen can't get too dry.
Plan to keep using it each cycle to produce one bud's worth of the same f1 seeds each cycle until is fails.
I'm getting about 50 seeds off a top bud pollinated at 4 weeks.
Note: mark seed buds well because after harvest, markers can get lost in the process.
And forgetting how many seeded buds to find requires review of notes.
All done while enjoying the challenges of Mary's distractions.
I believe smoking on the job results in many of the confusions resulting from seed purchases.

I want to get into some small hobby breeding projects and im also in a smaller basement production setup. You have a log where i could check out the pollen iso setup?

DoseThemAll · Jul 4, 2018

I think every breeder knows that there will always be people making crosses from their work. I think on a hobbyist level this is acceptable, even if one were to collect compensation for those seeds. Where I draw the line is when one choses to build a company or reputation with a simple cross. I believe for one to build an ethical company they should breed for a male and make crosses with intention. The sad thing is most people just smoke cannabis, were as we live it. So there will always be a market for the hype, take two recently popular stains and give it a tasty name and you'll have a line out the door @10 a bean. I see it as a breeder's "shrinkage", just my 2¢

MrPanda · Oct 23, 2018

It’s pretty sad that some “breeders” act like they haven’t “taken” generations of work. Such a blind-sided mentality. I give 100% of my crosses away. If you have ever charged or made a dime, you are a hypocrite on this thread. Stop being ignorant asses and let younger people make some money, or if not, learn a damn new trade. I am a 6- figure dude regardless of the plant. If you take people for what nature provided, and talk shit about others doing the same, you are a hypocrite

MrPanda · Oct 23, 2018

If you are dependent on a plant to make your life’s income, and hate others for spreading pollen to figuratively do the same as “your life’s work”, than your an idiot and should chose another trade. If you are accepting of the fact this is “going to happen”, stop hitching and do something better, than you would shut up. But, if you are incapable and riding on the “stealing of genetics” which brought you where you are, then face your demons

Rcubed · Oct 23, 2018

MrPanda said:
If you are dependent on a plant to make your life’s income, and hate others for spreading pollen to figuratively do the same as “your life’s work”, than your an idiot and should chose another trade. If you are accepting of the fact this is “going to happen”, stop hitching and do something better, than you would shut up. But, if you are incapable and riding on the “stealing of genetics” which brought you where you are, then face your demons

Yep, If you sold seeds or clones nobody stole your genetics. You sold your genetics.

cemchris · Oct 23, 2018

I don't know how long all of you have been around but on Overgrow JLP comes to mind. He got some heat from breeders but would make F2's of rare seed packs ect and give them away for free randomly to people to keep the genetics alive and pay if forward. Still to this day that dude is a true G. Still have some Wille Neslon F2's from him :)

cemchris · Oct 23, 2018

DoseThemAll said:
I think every breeder knows that there will always be people making crosses from their work. I think on a hobbyist level this is acceptable, even if one were to collect compensation for those seeds. Where I draw the line is when one choses to build a company or reputation with a simple cross. I believe for one to build an ethical company they should breed for a male and make crosses with intention. The sad thing is most people just smoke cannabis, were as we live it. So there will always be a market for the hype, take two recently popular stains and give it a tasty name and you'll have a line out the door @10 a bean. I see it as a breeder's "shrinkage", just my 2¢

Yeah the big problem isn't the breeders doing this its the market for those seeds or they wouldn't do it as you said. I mean if you want honesty in breeding then its on the seed buyers imo. Let the talking be your wallet. The sad fact is back in the day you really had to put in time and garnish relationships with people to be previewed to good genetics. Now you just buy seeds of some clone you have no clue on how to get and expect it to be the same thing. You couldnt be some socially awkward person or a total ass hat. Now with clone stores and 90% of the breeders selling non tested work or f1 gens for everything this is where we are at. Market gets what it wants and weirdos get to keep being weirdos.

sixstring · Oct 23, 2018

It's no different than some jackwagon making a copy of hlg quantum boards and selling it on Alibaba for half price.lots of people do that and lots of people buy them.why is it different when you install the word plant into this equation ?
It's not Imo, no different than the corn,soybean,and potato guys

chillywilly · Oct 23, 2018

He he he...I'm back folks! Well we'll well, got some breeds I'm going to do some breeding, but no space or place or funds.... This IS my do up................
1.Flying Dutch - Twister,... DJ Short Blue Heaven,...DJ Short Blue Velvet ,...Federation seed Mauna Kea,...Mikado,...Nirvana White Lady,...Tom Hill Salmon creek Big Bud,...Lucky 13 pineapple pound cake,...Classics Hawaiian indica
To breed with he he.... sorry , no kushes but the pineapple pound cake....only, the kushes don't make it for me, too commercial, nice though.... Got a lot of work to do, may need help, ....real med patient and grower....
Peace
cw

Rootbound · Oct 24, 2018

chillywilly said:
He he he...I'm back folks! Well we'll well, got some breeds I'm going to do some breeding, but no space or place or funds.... This IS my do up................
1.Flying Dutch - Twister,... DJ Short Blue Heaven,...DJ Short Blue Velvet ,...Federation seed Mauna Kea,...Mikado,...Nirvana White Lady,...Tom Hill Salmon creek Big Bud,...Lucky 13 pineapple pound cake,...Classics Hawaiian indica
To breed with he he.... sorry , no kushes but the pineapple pound cake....only, the kushes don't make it for me, too commercial, nice though.... Got a lot of work to do, may need help, ....real med patient and grower....
Peace
cw

Whats this have to do with ethics in breeding?

VTHempFrmr · Oct 24, 2018

motz said:
Alright what's everybody think of this then.
What happens say a myth is stumbled upon and the person that found that myth got expressed written consent to breed and make f2's and sell.
What's your stand on this?

Actually went to a lawyer and got document filed.

I'd make sure you have a rock solid Materials Transfer Agreement. I make all my larger buyers sign one for my work.

chillywilly · Oct 24, 2018

HERBAL JUJU said:
I used to converse with a gentleman from Washington state who ran classic seeds I believe it was. I really wish I hadn't lost contact with him, cause he truly was the mentor I was striving to find, kind, patient, and willing to help a young sponge grasshopper learn proper methods, he had a g13 hp I believe that truly was a gorgeous specimen.

I still have some Hawaiian indica from classic seeds nearly twenty years ago, bought from Marc Emery...truly a nice specimen, will maintain this strain as I will the Mauna Kea...A lot of breeds have lost but if can keep these original without hybridization...have also some original Columbian I would like to maintain...
cw

chillywilly · Oct 24, 2018

Rootbound said:
Whats this have to do with ethics in breeding?

Maintain your stock, too many want 'Kushes' or hemp in their lineup... I'm a med patient needing an uplifting...these ' CBD' strains are wack...yeah it alleviate pain but dull the brain ... cannabis is supposed to lift you up not put you down... cannabis does not take the place of proper supplementation or nutrients the body needs for health...not a panacea...but a part of the wholistic herbal program...as a vegetarian/herbalist thought on healing people of many varying disorders and dis-ease... cannabis contains a psychoactive property...if you grow for $$$ you missed the point of what we are doing...help... Those who need it, one way or another...I got a wicked wholistic- program as I have done over 30 yrs of my own personal research...from 1981 I was exposed to DDT, PCB, and Radioactive waste with the Coast Guard in the Arctic(Greenland) working with scientist...Ethics...I live in DC...the disposal are waiting k with bogus strains of supposed CBD that Govt. will allow...trash, crap, garbage, and I've smoked a lot...the trend is not the truth...Why are grapes seedless and tasteless? What happened to the 'old' breeds? money is the main purpose, not quality...I just chimed on breeds I would like to see and stabilized for future generations of horticulturist, the planet is slipping fast into Oblivion with non principled or dedicated people to keep true and other hybrid breeds in further process...
Peace
cw

Simplicio · Oct 24, 2018

I believe it's a good thing to have millions of seed chuckers out there.
It increases the chances that one of them will discover the next killer strain.
And like with TV, if you don't like the program, don't watch it.

ForbesNext · Oct 24, 2018

CageyBee said:
Been seeing more and more "breeders" popping up using other established true breeders work. My question is......when did buying a couple packs of beans then smashing a male and a female together and making a cross warrant a seedco? In my day you had to do some work and make your own male before making crosses you could call your own. The chuckers of this day and age are making a mockery of true cannabis breeding. Poly hybrids that all look the same is whats coming from it this chucking generation. Blessings or not its not god practice and honestly its pure hack breeding.

Whats everyone else's take?

Do you breed yourself?

sixstring · Oct 24, 2018

ForbesNext said:
Do you breed yourself?

You quoted a post from 4 years ago,it might be a minute before you get an answer :cool:

oldskol4evr · Oct 25, 2018

CageyBee said:
Been seeing more and more "breeders" popping up using other established true breeders work. My question is......when did buying a couple packs of beans then smashing a male and a female together and making a cross warrant a seedco? In my day you had to do some work and make your own male before making crosses you could call your own. The chuckers of this day and age are making a mockery of true cannabis breeding. Poly hybrids that all look the same is whats coming from it this chucking generation. Blessings or not its not god practice and honestly its pure hack breeding.

Whats everyone else's take?

chunkers as you call it evolved when the price of seed went up ,100 bucks for 5 seeds,fuck that and it all bullshit,with legalization of some states you would figure the price would go down,nope even higher,i was checking seeds out other day,cant remember which site it was,25 bucks for 1 seed,looked at charlotes web and 1 seed was 50 bucks,hah now ask about chunkers,crazy shit,i breed all my own and wanted to try something new,after looking at all the crap going around i stick to my creations,not everyone can buy 100 dollar seeds and then pay 1k for a new fangdangled light,crazy im saying,reguardless of what im called,breeder,chunker or just shit head,im getting medicated on my own creations of my own hand,this is just a few reasons,but to make equilty there are folk doing just as you mention,dont really care of results and start selling the seeds and havent even grown it to set a pattern,look at gg4,that was a herm and everyone goes nut for the shit and now there is a seed of it,still a hermie in my eyes,i grow 2 full grows with my stuff before i even mention what i named um,simply because if i give you a seed i can tell you structure, growth,ease of growth and then smoke report,i been growing since 76 and im here to say this shit has gone way out of control,outlaw for life hahahah

Ethics In Breeding

Ethics In Breeding

Dunge

motz

Dunge

incogneato

DoseThemAll

MrPanda

MrPanda

Rcubed

cemchris

cemchris

sixstring

chillywilly

Rootbound

VTHempFrmr

chillywilly

chillywilly

Simplicio

ForbesNext

sixstring

oldskol4evr

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