(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

MeJuana · Sep 27, 2010

Thanks PuffnNugg and Crysmatic...

Just if anyone wants a good laugh I mixed up a batch using Calcium Nitrate, not from Cropking, so I added my own salt at 34.5 % purity. That is almost 3 times the levels I was shooting for.. oops

kuz · Sep 27, 2010

I just wonder if there is a general guideline for a mixing potassium nitrate with calcium nitrate, think you might want a little K nitrate early on. Also think you might need to increase sulfur slowly, thats why I had a little potassium nitrate in the base and use some potassium chloride early on. Potassium chloride and potassium sulphate both at peak EC. Sorry I cant post any reference's, I'd like to find some. You would question why potassium nitrate makes any difference, N is N to the plant, right? But it is common to see them both used, so maybe there is a reason.

MeJuana · Sep 27, 2010

Re: Why use Potassium Nitrate and Calcium Nitrate

I thought it was just the ratios you were trying to achieve... Calcium Nitrate is 19% Ca and 15.5% N right? Say I want a different ratio of Nitrogen in comparison to Calcium, now you need another source of Nitrogen so I choose Potassium Nitrate

Green Leaf Aquariums
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
13.7-0-46

So now I am untied from Caclium I can boost N and K at these percentages, if I run out of room on K and I need more Nitrogen, shit now I gotta find another one.. Or rework my chems from the start.

PuFFnNugg · Sep 27, 2010

Some use three or four sources
A lot just use 2

I believe that having several sources is a ratio issue. I would think it more important how much is ammonium nitrate. I have wondered the same thing, but different lines get N from totally different sources and they all work.

Like CNS is Cal Nitrate and Power Plant Ammonium Nit, but they do both have Pot Nitrate, so maybe there is something to it.

Thanks about the Mg Sul, I was being lazy, at least I found that Lenntech site out of it. Wiki worries me sometimes though it wasn't Wiki that through me off, I forget where I read this garbage. Check that sight out if you need Mol Mass or run any chem formula!

Jalisco Kid · Sep 27, 2010

Crysmatic said:
this is my first time running this regimen...so i have no basis for comparison. this is also my first time mixing my own nutes, and first time running soiless outside. my colas are filling in now...i'll let you know how dense they are when they're done.

what is it about KNO3 that makes buds loose? do you use ammonium earlier in flower?

i just ran ripe in hydro buddy with potassium sulphate, and no potassium nitrate. i get 69-151-229-85-35. the only difference is calcium goes up about 13 ppm. there's the same ppm of nitrates...so what's going on here that makes harder buds?

mejuana: purity has to do with whether or not a salt is cut with an adulterant. Pure MKP is 0-52-34. 100g of pure MKP contains 52g P (really P2O5). shooting powder is 0-39-25. 100g of shooting powder has 39g P. 39/52 = 75% pure. does that make sense?

edit: epsom salts is magnesium sulphate heptahydrate. it is 9.86% magnesium. wiki is handy for molar masses.

It was something I noticed when I had to change up a formula due to lack of salts. I then had a patient run overdrive instead of big bud from week 2 on. He ended up with less heady trics. I usually add K nitrate 2 weeks before flush to pump them up,that and K phosphate. I use DAP 3 times as a floral spray for flavor changes after reading some Indian studies using it. They seem to be pushing the envelope more then other countries. JK

Jalisco Kid · Sep 27, 2010

XxShibbyxX said:
Don't know if you've already tried these guys but they have quite alot of products.

These guys are in socal as well...

http://www.amicoscientific.com/products.html

The first link offers everything to make carboload,little expensive but a lot cheaper then AN.
Atlas chemicals in another place in socal that carries all the salts in 12 and 25 kg bags.JK

Seamaiden · Sep 27, 2010

MeJuana said:
Re: Why use Potassium Nitrate and Calcium Nitrate

I thought it was just the ratios you were trying to achieve... Calcium Nitrate is 19% Ca and 15.5% N right? Say I want a different ratio of Nitrogen in comparison to Calcium, now you need another source of Nitrogen so I choose Potassium Nitrate

Green Leaf Aquariums
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
13.7-0-46

So now I am untied from Caclium I can boost N and K at these percentages, if I run out of room on K and I need more Nitrogen, shit now I gotta find another one.. Or rework my chems from the start.

Doing exactly the opposite would be fantastic for coco growers. Coco coir is already high in K and sucks up Ca and Mg like a McFatty suckin' on a McShakey-shake.

MeJuana · Sep 27, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
I use DAP 3 times as a floral spray for flavor changes after reading some Indian studies using it. They seem to be pushing the envelope more then other countries. JK

Yeah I remember reading a study where taste is actually affected by chemical makeup. Are you trying to bring out more natural flavors or adding flavor?

FOR ALL: Neat Excel documents for calculating nutrients
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/download.htm

Crysmatic · Sep 27, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
It was something I noticed when I had to change up a formula due to lack of salts. I then had a patient run overdrive instead of big bud from week 2 on. He ended up with less heady trics. I usually add K nitrate 2 weeks before flush to pump them up,that and K phosphate. I use DAP 3 times as a floral spray for flavor changes after reading some Indian studies using it. They seem to be pushing the envelope more then other countries. JK

very interesting JK! like you've said before, the K is what really pumps up the buds. what was your patient using as base nutes? can you give me an idea of NPK he was running?

i've made (and am using) 4 formulas:
veg/early bloom: 3-1-4
middle bloom: 5-4-10 (connie) and 5.5-6.5-12 (connie + OD)
late bloom: 1-5-4

from your observation, i should drop OD. i wonder whether in late bloom i should continue with 5-4-10, 1-5-4 or maybe 2-4-10? (hammerhead)

when and how much DAP do you spray on your plants? how does DAP affect flavour?

Jalisco Kid · Sep 28, 2010

Crysmatic said:
very interesting JK! like you've said before, the K is what really pumps up the buds. what was your patient using as base nutes? can you give me an idea of NPK he was running?

i've made (and am using) 4 formulas:
veg/early bloom: 3-1-4
middle bloom: 5-4-10 (connie) and 5.5-6.5-12 (connie + OD)
late bloom: 1-5-4

from your observation, i should drop OD. i wonder whether in late bloom i should continue with 5-4-10, 1-5-4 or maybe 2-4-10? (hammerhead)

when and how much DAP do you spray on your plants? how does DAP affect flavour?

I used 120 ppm during week 3,5 and 7. It changed my BP from a coffee/chocolate to a chem/fuel smell. I know will try it on other strains to try it on. I saw no leaf or other signs of ammonium from doing this. Overdrive is ok the last 18 days of feeding.
He was using H&G aqua or Grow More's 3 part.

Crysmatic · Sep 28, 2010

0.57g DAP per L will give 120 ppm ammonium, and 133 ppm P. do you believe ammonium in general adds more/better flavour than nitrate? could it be the high P that changes the flavour?

DNF trace mix has the totally wrong profile. i use 1.35g/L to get my Mo, reduce my Fe by 10%, and add the remaining micros per the recipe (that's how little it contains!). i tried doubling the rate to save myself from adding the other micros...probably not a good idea.

mejuana:
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/201...purity-and-its-importance-in-hydroponics.html

Daniel F probably doesn't read this thread, but i, and several others, have posted questions on his site. if you ask him something, be respectful. use a real first name (not necessarily yours). no overt pot references. he's kind enough to answer questions; don't put him in a difficult postition, or infer that his calculator helps grow ops.

MeJuana · Sep 28, 2010

Crsmatic I just thought it was a little weird, that explains if someone sent an email in my behalf or it was just chance who knows. I wish I was that important!! not

I do not email Daniel my questions typically I will cross my eyes trying to answer it myself, then I post on a thread like this I am having trouble understanding.. Then yeah if I email him it is without any reference to MariJuana. Certainly a scientist will not help with MJ because he would have no respect from his peers, sad but true. Your are right for sure.

There is a donate button on his site now, if you enjoy his contributions that is a great way to show the love!! :D

Seamaiden · Sep 28, 2010

I just found this comparison of DAP and MAP, thought some who are playing around with this might find it interesting, useful.

Some might find this useful as well (apologies if it's been posted):

MeJuana · Sep 28, 2010

How is DAP beneficial in Hydroponics it has a higher Phosphorus level for soil crops where the Phosphurus washes away right? It is an outdoors fertilizer by my understanding is that you only use high phosphurus because it washes away from soil crops quickly but in hydroponics it doesn't wash away. Not that you couln't use Dap to adjust the ratios but it doesn't seem ideal for anything that we are doing.

Edit: Ok I see you guys are after the NH4..

Jalisco Kid · Sep 28, 2010

Seamaiden said:
I just found this comparison of DAP and MAP, thought some who are playing around with this might find it interesting, useful.

Some might find this useful as well (apologies if it's been posted):

I use map like a lot of people use H&G RE.

Seamaiden · Sep 28, 2010

Read the paper. There are comparisons not just between functionality/usefulness as a fertilizer, but there are other also other comparisons that take into consideration issues such as manufacturing, raw material sourcing and quality of end product. One's liquid, one's granular (I have MAP, it's kinda sticky, but dissolves easily).

XxShibbyxX · Sep 28, 2010

That was an interesting comparison report.

Even opened perfectly on my phone I'm stuck with lol

Crysmatic · Sep 28, 2010

Seamaiden said:
I just found this comparison of DAP and MAP, thought some who are playing around with this might find it interesting, useful.

Some might find this useful as well (apologies if it's been posted):

so if we were growing wheat, we'd want to use MAP? if we can tease out any useful info, MAP is 1-4.7-0, DAP is 1-2.5-0. Ripe is 1-5-4, pbp soil bloom is 1-4-5, Aqua flakes + shooting powder is 1-4.1-4.2, maplereef bloom is 1-6.5-3.

i was running numbers on Sweet, and i realised that it raises Mg by 67-90 ppm (125 ppm peak), and sulphur by 90-120 ppm. i've been aiming for 105 ppm sulphur, while botanicare aims up to 112-155 ppm?! (using ripe as the base). Mg ppm exceeds Ca ppm by a lot...

squarepusher · Sep 28, 2010

MeJuana said:
Is this still true that you find differences by hand calculations with Hydrobuddy? How did you learn how to calculate it all out using molar masses and etc. That is so damn confusing.

Edit: squarepusher do a search for a program called Chembuddy, it has all the molar masses and some technical info with a 30 day free trial, fun to play with.

no, i think its accurate, it was an issue of either using different "brands" calcium nitrate (as his default brand is one that is hardly available, and the standard one is near the bottom of the list), and I don't think i was normalizing the potash/potassium. I'd say his calculator is good

MeJuana · Sep 29, 2010

squarepusher said:
I'd say his calculator is good

Thanks my friend

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