Fert Formulas

Jalisco Kid · Jun 7, 2010

I forgot all about this thread. The purpose of the thread was not to have people mixing their own salts. A lot of people say I use brand x, jimmy joebob uses brand y what is better. They ask this without looking at the bottles. This way they first get a clue whats in their nutes,then they get to learn what Ratios they have in their nutes. Next they need to learn what those ratios mean. JK

ill eagle · Jun 7, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
I forgot all about this thread. The purpose of the thread was not to have people mixing their own salts. A lot of people say I use brand x, jimmy joebob uses brand y what is better. They ask this without looking at the bottles. This way they first get a clue whats in their nutes,then they get to learn what Ratios they have in their nutes. Next they need to learn what those ratios mean. JK

Unfortunately, using standard mg/l conversions, I think most folks will be further confused trying to convert the guaranteed analysis numbers that aren't correct in the first place.

Jalisco Kid · Jun 7, 2010

They are correct as the minimal analysis of that formula. By weighting them out and checking the ppm/EC out you get an idea what is in there. More likely to be excess of salts then buffers in most good nute companies. JK

budboy299 · Jun 7, 2010

Here is H&G's Aqua Flakes...

Part "A"
3.1-0-3.4
.3% ammoniacal Nitrogen
2.8% Nitrate Nitrogen
3.4% Soluble Potash

Derived from Calcium Nitrate, Ammonium Nitrate, Nitric Acid and Potassium Hydroxide

Part "B" is:

1.5-3.4-6.5
1.5% Nitrate Nitrogen
3.4% Available Phosphate
6.5% Soluble Potash
.8% Magnesium

Derived from Nitric Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Phosphoric Acid, and Magnesium Sulphate

budboy299 · Jun 7, 2010

This is DNF (dutch nutrient formula) Bloom

Part A 3-0-3

Ammoniacal Nitrogen .22% total Nitrogen 3%Nitrate Nitrogen 2.78%
Soluble Potash 3%
Calcium 3%

Derived from Ammonium Nitrate 33-0-0
Calcium Nitrate 15-0-0
Potassium Nitrate 13-0-44
Nitric Acid

Part B 1-.5-3

Nitrogen 1%
Available Phosphate .5%
Soluble Potash 3%
Molybdenum .0012%

Derived from Potassium Nitrate 13-0-44
Phosphoric Acid 0-52 to 60-0
Sodium Molybdate

budboy299 · Jun 7, 2010

Calmag+

2-0-0

1.94% Nitrate Nitrogen
.06% water soluble nitrogen
3.2% Calcium
1.2% Magnesium
.1% chelated iron

Derived from: Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0
Magnesium Nitrate %15 MgO (%9.5 Mg) and %11 Nitrate Nitrogen, and Iron EDTA

Jalisco Kid · Jun 7, 2010

budboy299 Find the net weight for those bottles then we can run it thru a calculator to get the profiles. JK

ill eagle · Jun 9, 2010

Which calculator are you using JK?

fatman · Jun 10, 2010

Herae are two government sites that test fertilizers to assure they provide what they state om their labels. The problem si that they do not test for organics, amimo acids humic and fuvic acids, enzymes, vitamims and such. You wil alsootiv ce that a lot of the fertilizers sold by AN and GH etc are np ot loisted. IE if the samples provided do m not supplt at least as much as the manfacturer claims the nutrients is not listed and can not be sold in that state. Ther is also the issue that they do not say what chemical salt compounds are used in themis just the totals present. mj specific manafacturers such as AN have over the last five years or so statred fornulating all their "new" mixes produced in the last five years or so in unusual manners not commom to typical fertilizer mixers so as to hide their formulations from easy duplication by spead sheet software programs offered free online. This means paper and calculator use to do the mayor and secondary nutrients, trying various compomds until you get the excat mix, or simply just getting close and saying well enough. If you can get labels with the complete analysis and a lsiting of ingredu inats used then it is simple. It is not all that common for them to give so much info.

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/Product1.aspx?action=ViewTable&ltr=M

budboy299 · Jun 10, 2010

Fatman, have you ever used the formulating software called Nutron 2000+ ?
if you have, I just wondered what you felt about it or other formulating software

fatman · Jun 10, 2010

Yes I have a copy of Nutron 2000 + Edition Three. I have four different commercial software packages, and four written by grad students and doctoral candidates. Luckily being a tenured professors I get lots of free software and books.

For it's retail price range the Nutron software package is a good product covering both hydroponic and soil fertilizer formulation. S Yes it gas a special section that allows you to use a combination of commercial fertilizers and adjust them with additional salts etc. However it takes some tweaking to do some things as it is set up for no nonsense formulating where the primary Hydroponic formulations start out with Calcium nitrate followed by mono potassium phosphate, followed by Magnesium Sulfate. If you vary much from using just those major and secondary nutrients plus trace nutrents it takes learning the software better than the directions they supply allows. IE tweaking. It is usually not much of a problem unless you try to duplicate AN formulations. If you are content with starting out first with just making formulations like AN, GH, Cannna, and Dutch Masters two part formulations until you get use to tweaking the program by using all of its features it will pay itself off quickly. It is only about $150. With it you will be able to make two part formulations like GH for about $5 per gallon for the standard 100X concentrations.

To buy a better software package your talking a $1200 package that contains many features only used by large commercial growers. There is actually a free software package that is down loadable that is better than the Nutron. I will see if I still have the link.

Try this link:

It is actually in many ways more versatile then the Nutron program but it does not come with a 30 page set of directions like the Nutron program.

BOSSMAN88188 · Jun 10, 2010

Excellent read.
I will run my nutes through and post results.
Thanks JK

nog · Jul 12, 2010

i still use GH lucas ratio, not necessarilly 5-10 or 8-16, i start at less than 5-10, and gradually increase concentration until i get an ec of about 1.6 at week 4 of flowering.
i also use formulex for a change every 4th or 5th grow, and to be honest the results are not that different, there are lots of other variables involved. One thing to be carefull with is that Calcium nitrate, can react with the other ingredients and fuck up your formula if you are not an expert.

mahavatar · Jul 12, 2010

Just use your own home made fertilizer, its free, easy, and loved by the plants, as well as 100% organic and natural. I posted an recipe on how to make your own fertilizer in my other thread about super-boosting your plants here:

Xceptional · Jul 20, 2010

nog said:
i still use GH lucas ratio, not necessarilly 5-10 or 8-16, i start at less than 5-10, and gradually increase concentration until i get an ec of about 1.6 at week 4 of flowering.
i also use formulex for a change every 4th or 5th grow, and to be honest the results are not that different, there are lots of other variables involved. One thing to be carefull with is that Calcium nitrate, can react with the other ingredients and fuck up your formula if you are not an expert.

sound like my first grow and every grow my buddy has done. we follow the ratios but but the ml/gal as neither of us wanted to run it full strength the first time due to tap and the second time just to be safe. buddy has 2 liter sized colas right now in a ebb and grow using lucas no additives, no salt buildup, ro water and ppm around 1000 at max.

i switched to H&G bought the full line, dropped a ton of money and had a shitty grow! he's laughing in my face daily now becasue my greedy ass changed up from Lucas thinking i'd get more out of H&G full line and did much worse with more issues! switching back to Lucas this rip and from now on no doubt about it.

i'm going to grab the CNS17 numbers to run them through here. i'm interested in them more so becasue of who designed the line, Dr. Lynette Morgan you can see her pic and bio it's the first pic in the contributors section of every Maximum yield magazine. if you click her name that is a link to a google search on her she has tons of credentials and she is held in very high regard by the smartest guy i know personally as he knows her.

Xceptional · Jul 21, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
8ml GH Micro 16 ml GH Bloom, is my guru pH's baseline bloom formula (pH is a person) derived from the Mel Frank targets, which suggest a 100-100-200-60 goal for NPKMG values in bloom Both GH Flora series nutes and the Flora Nova series, achieve Mel Franks targets without additives. Here is a link to Mel's specs
pH's "Lucas Formula" values for 8ml micro, 16ml bloom
n 130
p 106
k 183
Mg 73

JK can you provide more insight on any modifications to this formula? as i mentioned ive used it and had success and going back to it and usually follow the ratio of 1:2 but not 5/10 & 8/16 i just slowly raise ppm and then slowly drop back down near end of harvest. any other recommendations of any kind from Mel Frank?

Jalisco Kid · Jul 21, 2010

That P is a little bit to high for me. I never go over 60ppm more then 10 days and then up to 90 ppm.

kuz · Jul 21, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
That P is a little bit to high for me. I never go over 60ppm more then 10 days and then up to 90 ppm.

Do you ever give a crazy boost to p and k? Anytime I start doing math it might be way off but from what I can tell some of the bloom boosters push p and k up to 10 times N?

1/2 strength base, 1 t moab and 1/2 t hammerhead per gallon is what I was planning weeks 4 and 5 on an 8 week strain. Something like 80 ppm N, 800 ppm P, 750 K? I never ran that, just asking.

Edit; I put moab and hammerhead in the nute calculator and got something more reasonable. 1/2 base, t moab, 1/2 t hammerhead.
N, 75 - P,365 - K,573 - Mg,20 - Ca,42

kuz · Jul 21, 2010

the base. floranova grow, floranova bloom and Pure Blend Pro bloom

Used the calculator from cannastats web site for these numbers.
1.5 ml grow. 4 ml bloom and 10 ml pbp.
N 123 - P 78 - K 204 - MG 40 - CA 85

Never used it, just found it on the internet. With all the options available, I just picked one.

saltr · Jul 21, 2010

When comparing the nutrient profile analysis to EC meter results, the meter obviously reads higher values due to buffers, dyes, fillers, preservatives, etc. Yet, which values should be given more stock? While it's my feeling that the non-nutritive ingredients don't matter too much, i also don't want to burn my plants by disregarding the meter-read EC and just sticking to the target profile levels. Would someone please advise?

Fert Formulas

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