Finally going organic, please critique my soil mix

legaleyes13 · Jul 5, 2014

This is gonna be no till.

Base

1/3 compost
1/3 peat
1/3 aeration

I making 9 cubic of base mix, then adding these amendments.

per cubic foot:

1/2 cup kelp
1/2 cup crab meal
1/2 cup neem meal
1/2 cup fish meal
1/2 fish bone meal
1/2 cup gypsum
1 cup biochar
4 cups rock dust mix (glacial, azomite)

I'll add a little alfalfa.

I'm really only worried about the fish meal and the fish bone meal. I don't really know how much of those 2 to add, so I'm hoping a 1/2 cup per cubic foot will be fine.

Thanks in advance for any of your help. I really appreciate it.

ssteely71 · Jul 5, 2014

legaleyes13 said:
This is gonna be no till.

Base

1/3 compost
1/3 peat
1/3 aeration

I making 9 cubic of base mix, then adding these amendments.

per cubic foot:

1/2 cup kelp
1/2 cup crab meal
1/2 cup neem meal
1/2 cup fish meal
1/2 fish bone meal
1/2 cup gypsum
1 cup biochar
4 cups rock dust mix (glacial, azomite)

I'll add a little alfalfa.

I'm really only worried about the fish meal and the fish bone meal. I don't really know how much of those 2 to add, so I'm hoping a 1/2 cup per cubic foot will be fine.

Thanks in advance for any of your help. I really appreciate it.

Is the gypsum for pH control or for Ca?
I would look into adding in some dolomite lime @1/2- 1cup per cubic foot for pH control. There is a thread here on organic soil mixes. I will say that if you are unsure of amounts to add , be careful!, my first batch of soil was too heavy on N and it took a full run to realize it. Best of luck.

legaleyes13 · Jul 5, 2014

ssteely71 said:
Is the gypsum for pH control or for Ca?
I would look into adding in some dolomite lime @1/2- 1cup per cubic foot for pH control. There is a thread here on organic soil mixes. I will say that if you are unsure of amounts to add , be careful!, my first batch of soil was too heavy on N and it took a full run to realize it. Best of luck.

The gypsum is for calcium and ph. No real reason why I went with gypsum over dolo lime, I just kinda did. If I'm low on mag, I'll just add some epsom salt to my tea recipe.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Johnny Fire · Jul 5, 2014

What's the aeration ur using?.. looks good u might half to water in some nitrogen. .looks a little slacking on that side

legaleyes13 · Jul 6, 2014

Johnny Fire said:
What's the aeration ur using?.. looks good u might half to water in some nitrogen. .looks a little slacking on that side

Rice hulls for aeration... and I will water in some High N guano just about every feeding. Hopefully that should do the trick.

CBGB · Jul 6, 2014

That's a solid soil mix. I've used basically the same without the bio char and plants finished great. The addition of bio char as long as its activated, it will finish that mix off perfectly. I would not add high N guano I would top dress worm casting enriched with 1 TBS per gal then top mulch with bio dynamic acclimators(stinging nettle, comfrey) heavy over that. Water with silica and humic acid every watering. Cycle in some SST and ACT and you will be golden.

Where did you get that mix if you don't mind me asking?

legaleyes13 · Jul 6, 2014

CBGB said:
That's a solid soil mix. I've used basically the same without the bio char and plants finished great. The addition of bio char as long as its activated, it will finish that mix off perfectly. I would not add high N guano I would top dress worm casting enriched with 1 TBS per gal then top mulch with bio dynamic acclimators(stinging nettle, comfrey) heavy over that. Water with silica and humic acid every watering. Cycle in some SST and ACT and you will be golden.

Where did you get that mix if you don't mind me asking?

I sourced them from a bunch of different places. Any item in particular you want to know about?

And why no guano?

Seamaiden · Jul 6, 2014

legaleyes13 said:
The gypsum is for calcium and ph. No real reason why I went with gypsum over dolo lime, I just kinda did. If I'm low on mag, I'll just add some epsom salt to my tea recipe.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Gypsum will not adjust or shift pH, it's neutral. Epsom salts will wash out with a quickness so you're going to need to address that further into the season. If your source water is hard, then generally you can safely leave out the DL in my experience, especially since you're using crab meal, its Ca is a good bit of CaCO3 (the shell of said crab). Rock dusts can be a good source of Mg, and one amendment I like is Sul-Po-Mag. Look into fish hydrolysate (fuck... is that right? hydrolized fish, I use the dry granular stuff) and believe it or not one of my favorite most easiest amendments to toss into a mix are alfalfa pellets. Not meal--pellets for animal feed. I try to always get organic, but I'm not always able to. They break up very quickly, and then you've got finely chopped alfalfa ready there for the microbes and plants to use.

Consider soaking the biochar in a mild nutrient solution that would include diluted urine, and perhaps some kelp extract--it will then act as a nutrient reservoir as well as a home for microbes.

Oh, consider including some worm castings in that base mix. I'd like to see it more like 1 part each peat/coir, worm castings, compost, rice hulls. Then add a lot of rock dusts to that base mix, the more the merrier but go easy on the Azomite. Cal-Phos is one of my staple mineral amendments, along with gypsum.

Consider adding Sea-90 to your feeding regimen.

legaleyes13 · Jul 6, 2014

@Seamaiden, I'm definitely gonna feed with fish hydrolysate, and the azomite is only gonna be 1/4 of the rock dust mix (is that good?). I really don't wanna add any dolo lime, but if I did, how much should I add?

The biochar has already been inoculated. I think I'm gonna risk not addressing the Mag issue (I don't even know that there is an issue), but if something pops up, I'll add the SulPoMag or epsom salts... and I'll look into the Sea-90.

Thanks

Seamaiden · Jul 7, 2014

Hm... how much DL would I add...? I'm thinking a half cup/ft cu would be alright without going too far. Remember that your crab meal has carbonates and calcium in it, that's one of the big reasons why I suggested not adding dolomite lime to your mix.

DC105 · Jul 7, 2014

Seamaiden.definitely knows her shit. I recommend asking TSTEW313 or Tnelz. I know they have great results and advice as well! Can't go wrong with any of the 3

CBGB · Jul 7, 2014

legaleyes13 said:
I sourced them from a bunch of different places. Any item in particular you want to know about?

And why no guano?

I was asking where the recipe came from? Not where the actual amendments came from. The reason I ask is that's the rols crews mix with each individual adding diversity from the local environment.

No guano for multiple reasons. One its not needed. And the second is the many many unethical practices the use of bat guano has led to since humans started harvesting it in the 1800s. I will go into it but I fear it would hijack your thread. I can throw down 30 cited reasons to not use bat guano.

For the mineral mix I like using 2-4 parts glacial rock to 1 part gypsum and 1 part oyster shell that will replace lime in the mix. I add 4-6c per cubic foot depending on amendments used. I usually add 4c that mix with a half cup of basal. And I only amend with kelp,crab and neem meal at a half cup per cubic foot. Some will say its a light mix but treated properly it is a well balanced mix that is plenty powerful. Top dressing and mulching is the gravy that brings it all together. Feed the micro web not the plant.
I would also avoid sul/po/mag as well the 0-0-22 ratio is not good for micro life mixed globally especially. Add a tsp or two per gallon of castings you top dress with as well as the tsp-TBS of kelp per gal castings.

Seamaiden · Jul 7, 2014

Even at light rates? I've done well using it as an alternative to the 'quick fix' of MgSO4. I've also seen kelp grossly overused, fortunately I've avoided that problem myself, but have gone to stuff like Sul-Po-Mag because it is bereft of the secondary plant metabolites that come with kelp.

I don't disagree with you about the bat guano. I've been harvesting my own insect frass as I keep a colony of mealworms for my chickens. Love it!

Dunge · Jul 7, 2014

Just yesterday I brought 9 identical plants inside to flower.
I was asking the same questions you are, and had all these clones, so I'm half way through the trial.
The results thus far are surprising in their lack of differentiation.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/six-super-soil-variants-run-side-by-side.63549/
I'm hesitant to start drawing conclusions with nine weeks of flowering to go, but it's hard not to notice that the only common element in all nine formulations is the inoculations in Down To Earth compost and worm castings.
Is growing good pot in dirt really all about the microbes?

legaleyes13 · Jul 7, 2014

CBGB said:
I was asking where the recipe came from? Not where the actual amendments came from. The reason I ask is that's the rols crews mix with each individual adding diversity from the local environment.

No guano for multiple reasons. One its not needed. And the second is the many many unethical practices the use of bat guano has led to since humans started harvesting it in the 1800s. I will go into it but I fear it would hijack your thread. I can throw down 30 cited reasons to not use bat guano.

For the mineral mix I like using 2-4 parts glacial rock to 1 part gypsum and 1 part oyster shell that will replace lime in the mix. I add 4-6c per cubic foot depending on amendments used. I usually add 4c that mix with a half cup of basal. And I only amend with kelp,crab and neem meal at a half cup per cubic foot. Some will say its a light mix but treated properly it is a well balanced mix that is plenty powerful. Top dressing and mulching is the gravy that brings it all together. Feed the micro web not the plant.
I would also avoid sul/po/mag as well the 0-0-22 ratio is not good for micro life mixed globally especially. Add a tsp or two per gallon of castings you top dress with as well as the tsp-TBS of kelp per gal castings.

Yeah, this is a ROLS recipe. I MIGHT have a difficult time sourcing fresh worm castings (good chance I won't, but who knows). And when you say a tsp per gallon, you mean a tsp per gallon of soil?

Myco · Jul 7, 2014

My ROLS mix is nearly identical minus fish meal, plus fishbone meal, oyster shell, and about 20-30% EWC... And I would stay away from lime per @Seamaiden's advice.

Have had excellent results! Good vibes to you and your soil ;)

legaleyes13 · Jul 7, 2014

Myco said:
My ROLS mix is nearly identical minus fish meal, plus fishbone meal, oyster shell, and about 20-30% EWC... And I would stay away from lime per @Seamaiden's advice.

Have had excellent results! Good vibes to you and your soil ;)

Thanks man, no dolo it is. Oyster shell instead...

If you don't mind me asking, do you have your own worm farm? I don't and don't wanna deal with the extra hassle of maintaining and harvesting fresh castings... So I'll either find a worm farmer or use store bought... I really don't wanna use store bought.

CBGB · Jul 7, 2014

legaleyes13 said:
Yeah, this is a ROLS recipe. I MIGHT have a difficult time sourcing fresh worm castings (good chance I won't, but who knows). And when you say a tsp per gallon, you mean a tsp per gallon of soil?

Good worm castings/compost is key. I usually have good luck on craigs list if I have to out source. Its easy to make very productive worm farms and the best part is you know exactly what's in them. Most castings I've bought from stores is lacking in minerals and micro life.

I just read through my post my fault. I mix up to 1tbs of kelp and at max 2tsp sul-po-mag per gallon of compost I'm using for the top dressing. Once mixed I top dress with a 2" layer over the pot. For best results cover the compost top dressing with green leaves especially cannabis leaves for the plant specific micro life growing on them and biodynamic acclimators such as comfrey and stinging nettle leaves. Though covering it with anything is better than nothing. It might seem somewhat overwhelming the options but your mix is solid and will only get better and better the more time you run it. No til is great because you don't disturb the soil food network by recycling. Microlife wants to be undisturbed. After a while your soil will literally be moving with life.

You might have mentioned this already. What size pot are you using?

Seamaiden said:
Even at light rates? I've done well using it as an alternative to the 'quick fix' of MgSO4. I've also seen kelp grossly overused, fortunately I've avoided that problem myself, but have gone to stuff like Sul-Po-Mag because it is bereft of the secondary plant metabolites that come with kelp.

I don't disagree with you about the bat guano. I've been harvesting my own insect frass as I keep a colony of mealworms for my chickens. Love it!

At low amounts I think most things are ok but in his mix I really think its unnecessary. I'm just a soil freak and avoid as many X factors as I can. If it looks like I'm running short on anything I bubble 1/4 kelp meal with a TBS of molasses for a few days and all issues should be taken care of.

Well at least we agree on something lol. Insects are great their so underappreciated. I bet you have some happy chickens. Really if we cared more for our planet we would cut out 90% of beef and replace it with insect protein. But I don't know very many who would be cool with that.

CBGB · Jul 7, 2014

Dunge said:
Just yesterday I brought 9 identical plants inside to flower.
I was asking the same questions you are, and had all these clones, so I'm half way through the trial.
The results thus far are surprising in their lack of differentiation.
View attachment 420872
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/six-super-soil-variants-run-side-by-side.63549/
I'm hesitant to start drawing conclusions with nine weeks of flowering to go, but it's hard not to notice that the only common element in all nine formulations is the inoculations in Down To Earth compost and worm castings.
Is growing good pot in dirt really all about the microbes?

Yes the force is strong in microbes. A well balanced mix teeming with microbes will grow most plants to finish healthy and nutrient rich.

johnnyrotten · Jul 7, 2014

real similar to mine except I use lava rock for aeration and use dolomite instead of gypsum...I use a little alfalfa in my mix as well...been thinking of using rabbit poop for my outdoor garden mix, I've been told its a perfect compost and fertilizer that can be used fresh...

Finally going organic, please critique my soil mix

Finally going organic, please critique my soil mix

legaleyes13

ssteely71

legaleyes13

Johnny Fire

legaleyes13

CBGB

legaleyes13

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

legaleyes13

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

DC105

CBGB

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Dunge

legaleyes13

Myco

legaleyes13

CBGB

CBGB

johnnyrotten

Finally going organic, please critique my soil mix

Finally going organic, please critique my soil mix

legaleyes13

ssteely71

legaleyes13

Johnny Fire

legaleyes13

CBGB

legaleyes13

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

legaleyes13

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

DC105

CBGB

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

Dunge

legaleyes13

Myco

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CBGB

CBGB

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