First Grow Attempt

FullFuzzy · May 21, 2020

Week 4, Day 4:
All the plants are looking healthy I'd say, continued growth at the top, thickening/strengthening stems, and the start of some new growth at existing nodes. Plant #3 still lagging a little behind her sisters but not by much, but I think she'll catch up again soon. Temperatures in the tent are still coming in pretty close to 30C (86F) so I've opened the side windows to hopefully reduce the temperatures a little bit. Currently drawing in cool air from outside & venting inside. Inside temperatures are stable, identical to pre-grow temps, so I think that's still probably the way to go. Running the exhaust fan during light hours, and the tower fan 24/7. Pots were dry, watered with plain tap water, good soaking. Will probably not water tomorrow, or just give a light spray. Drainage is still great, no pooling at the top. All in all, looking good to me

FullFuzzy · Jun 5, 2020

Late Update
Week 6, Day 1
All the plants look plenty healthy. Topped the 2 larger ones, and FIMed the smaller one, as I heard plants recover quicker from FIMing so I thought it might catch up in it's height a little bit. I don't plan on topping or FIMing my plants again before flowering unless people think it's a seriously good idea, but I'm not sure I'd get many extra gains under a modest 400W light with 3 plants.

Some before and after pics here, will get some more recent photos tomorrow

Nottheone · Jun 5, 2020

I think the bigger concern about whether to top or FIM again before flower is timing. You’ll need to spend more time in veg then. If you’re sticking to a particular schedule and have an expected date you want to harvest, I wouldn’t. But if you have the time, conventional wisdom suggests it should increase your yield.

FullFuzzy · Jun 7, 2020

Week 7, Day 1

Topped plants seem to have established their new main stems quite nicely, can also see increased overall growth on most branches other than the main old main stems. The FIMed plant is continuing growth fine although I'm not seeing the same extent of strengthening of what should be it's new nodes as the topped plants, however this plant I think is just growing slower than her sisters, not sure, but I'm unlikely to FIM or Top it again if I decide to do that with the other plants, but I'm planning on just sticking with them through to harvest at this point with maybe some LST or Scroging.

Some of the lower leaves are dying on the plants though, which should indicate malnutrition. I have seen some small flies around my soil, possibly fungas gnats, so I sprayed the soil & some of the lower leaves with a neem oil water mix today to help curb their population, but I'm going to start decreasing the frequency of my waterings further & maybe start giving some veg nutrients every second feed until the population subsides & the plants are looking pristine.

sambapati · Jun 7, 2020

Nothing succeeds like success. Everything looks groovey. I would recommend foliar spray of aloe just b4 bedyime

FullFuzzy · Jun 16, 2020

Week 8
The 2 topped plants have developed what looks like 4 main stems, 2 from where they were topped and 2 from lower branches that have caught up to the same height. The FIMed plant hasn't developed any clear new main stems, although it's lower stems have thickened a bit, it still hasn't really bushed out like it's sisters. One of the topped plants top growth has started to get a little lankier, bigger spacing between nodes & less outward growth.

All the plants seem to be under some stress, lower branches starting to yellow & some leaves falling, but the middle-upper growth is fine. Could be nitrogen depletion in the soil, or the gnats may be causing them issues with nutrient uptake. The fly/gnat population has gotten a little bit larger, with 10+ flies (didn't really count) moving around. I've been watering with neem oil more often (almost every water now) & giving minimum 1 day gaps between watering, once a 2 day gap to try and curb the population, although I know the neem's effects are delayed as it makes the children infertile. Going to add some yellow stickies tonight & maybe catch some daddy long legs to move into the tent.

At this rate of growth, I think I should be ready to flower in about a week, but I'm a little hesitant to if the gnats are still around, since I don't want them to be under stress through flowering, and the water will dry out slower under a shorter light cycle. How large should the gnat population be for me to be really concerned? I've been adding a light amount of nutrients as well with each of my waterings, figure it may help if they're having issues getting nutrients from their attacked roots, or if the soil is depleted, so I thought it couldn't hurt either way. With the gaps between watering I have seen the leaves canoing/cupping more often which makes me feel like I should be watering every day, but I want to keep the fly population under control so I haven't been.

Is my watering schedule I good idea or should I be going more regularly? Not sure if the gnats of dehydration would be a bigger worry for the plants (maybe it'd be alright if I'm using neem every 2nd water?). Any advice would be much appreciated.

EDIT: On GrowDiaries a comment mentioned that the gnats/flies I'm seeing may be springtails & may be beneficial, how would I be able to know the difference? Thanks all

FullFuzzy · Jun 16, 2020

Don't meant to bump, but I am getting some sticky traps tonight, so I will take a picture of anything they catch tomorrow to help with identifying whatever critter it is that's inside my tent

sambapati · Jun 16, 2020

FullFuzzy said:
Week 8
The 2 topped plants have developed what looks like 4 main stems, 2 from where they were topped and 2 from lower branches that have caught up to the same height. The FIMed plant hasn't developed any clear new main stems, although it's lower stems have thickened a bit, it still hasn't really bushed out like it's sisters. One of the topped plants top growth has started to get a little lankier, bigger spacing between nodes & less outward growth.

All the plants seem to be under some stress, lower branches starting to yellow & some leaves falling, but the middle-upper growth is fine. Could be nitrogen depletion in the soil, or the gnats may be causing them issues with nutrient uptake. The fly/gnat population has gotten a little bit larger, with 10+ flies (didn't really count) moving around. I've been watering with neem oil more often (almost every water now) & giving minimum 1 day gaps between watering, once a 2 day gap to try and curb the population, although I know the neem's effects are delayed as it makes the children infertile. Going to add some yellow stickies tonight & maybe catch some daddy long legs to move into the tent.

At this rate of growth, I think I should be ready to flower in about a week, but I'm a little hesitant to if the gnats are still around, since I don't want them to be under stress through flowering, and the water will dry out slower under a shorter light cycle. How large should the gnat population be for me to be really concerned? I've been adding a light amount of nutrients as well with each of my waterings, figure it may help if they're having issues getting nutrients from their attacked roots, or if the soil is depleted, so I thought it couldn't hurt either way. With the gaps between watering I have seen the leaves canoing/cupping more often which makes me feel like I should be watering every day, but I want to keep the fly population under control so I haven't been.

Is my watering schedule I good idea or should I be going more regularly? Not sure if the gnats of dehydration would be a bigger worry for the plants (maybe it'd be alright if I'm using neem every 2nd water?). Any advice would be much appreciated.

EDIT: On GrowDiaries a comment mentioned that the gnats/flies I'm seeing may be springtails & may be beneficial, how would I be able to know the difference? Thanks all

When you say using Neem you are talking foliar spray, right? Putting some lemon or lime zest/cinnamon also deters bugs. The sticky pads may help tell the tale.

Sxnlee · Jun 16, 2020

Hey there, I actually made an account here just to say that unless they are a huge problem I wouldn't worry about the gnats or springtails, I usually have a few kicking around in my tents but it doesn't seem to be detrimental to my plants. Honestly I'd only neem spray if you really need to, and just spray it on top of the soil. But otherwise healthy plants should be resilient enough! Just don't overwater too much. Best of luck! And don't stress about the bugs, they can be part of a healthy ecosystem.

FullFuzzy · Jun 17, 2020

Pretty sure they're gnats now, but the yellow sticky has been quite effective, definitely a large drop in population from yesterday. As long as I keep the soil a little drier than I have been, and maybe occasionally using neem oil & prevent them from getting out of control again, I don't think they'll be much of a problem anymore. I also think some of the signs of stress I was seeing was because the light was probably a bit closer than it should have been, so I've raised it. I've also added a small mint plant that I'll keep in the shade near the fan, hopefully it can act as a little preventative for pests returning, and maybe attract some beneficial creatures. Worst case, have some more mint to use

PlumberSoCal2 · Jun 17, 2020

FullFuzzy said:
The plant that had brown spots & started curling curled more today, and started yellowing the bottom leaves (doesn't show that too well with my camera) so I made sure to move them today. Plants are in their larger pots with the soil mix I made now, roots had started to reach through the bottom of the starter pots so it seemed like good timing, although they hadn't started to wrap around the pots yet. The soil balls did crumble a bit while transplanting, but nothing too bad. Also added some planting gel for the 2 plants that don't seem stressed (forgot I had it before I moved the stressed one). Applied some water with kelp extract to help with the rooting & transplant stress.

Forgot to mention with the manure added to the soil mix, it was packaged manure & the texture was like soil with no strong odour, so I believe it was pre-composted. The cow manure had been sitting in my yard for a couple months, so even if it wasn't precomposted before I bought it, I believe it has been now. The sheep manure was the same. Didn't add a huge amount of it to the mix, so I don't think the soil will be too hot for the plants but I will keep an eye out for signs for it anyway. Saw some little critters in the soil which I understand isn't neccessarily a bad thing, they didn't look like aphids or gnats, but I will likely apply a little neem oil tomorrow just in case.

Took more photos of my general tent setup as well. Since I don't know which plants are which strain at the moment, I will likely number them as well tomorrow. After they're a little more established in their new pots, I'm thinking I might top the plants fairly soon (in maybe a week or so?). Not sure if I'm being too hasty with that

Manure, even well composted can be a little too hot for seedlings. Otherwise doin' ok. Be careful not to over water or over fertilize. Enjoy the grow.

PlumberSoCal2 · Jun 17, 2020

FullFuzzy said:
Pretty sure they're gnats now, but the yellow sticky has been quite effective, definitely a large drop in population from yesterday. As long as I keep the soil a little drier than I have been, and maybe occasionally using neem oil & prevent them from getting out of control again, I don't think they'll be much of a problem anymore. I also think some of the signs of stress I was seeing was because the light was probably a bit closer than it should have been, so I've raised it. I've also added a small mint plant that I'll keep in the shade near the fan, hopefully it can act as a little preventative for pests returning, and maybe attract some beneficial creatures. Worst case, have some more mint to use

Neem will leave it's flavor. Your sticky pads are working well, replace as needed.

Don't ever use neem near or during flowering. Personally I wouldn't recommend it for weed. I've been lightly puffing sulfur and DE from a bellows applicator. Happy with the results but my main enemies are aphids and moth larva.

sambapati · Jun 17, 2020

PlumberSoCal2 said:
Neem will leave it's flavor. Your sticky pads are working well, replace as needed.

Don't ever use neem near or during flowering. Personally I wouldn't recommend it for weed. I've been lightly puffing sulfur and DE from a bellows applicator. Happy with the results but my main enemies are aphids and moth larva.

This is ggood info

Aqua Man · Jun 17, 2020

@Burned Haze swears by nematodes and some beetle I forget the name.

Another buddy swears by BTI mosquito bites and yellow stickies. But have to use both

I have no experience with bugs... Knock on wood.

Burned Haze · Jun 18, 2020

used to use btI and endorse it heavily ( feel dumb that I did cause no matter how much I apply and even made my pots dry = FG , soil or coco )

so when I talked to evergreen they told me BTI is a joknematodes and to try even once the nematode method and for predator for the adults You need rove beetles and if this works to Guess what? first cycle when I was infected? they wiped me out within days , than this round when I have yellow cards and I applied it even at week 3-5 in veg. Not a single FG the whole season!

price vs BTI and loss of yields for FG. 100% worth it for me and then some. Fuck FG and this is the best solution towards fg . Shipping is the most expensive part so I always oversized my “rooms suggestion” might as well win the battle ( if you look at the small bag vs the tray it’s not a bad deal

even when I was looking at azaguard (bioworks) they said go nematodes really better for FG per buck , even says that in their manual , it’s the king . I know why now and I wish I wasn’t spending years fighting them. my only tip is keep your pots not too wet and you really don’t need to buy 2 cycles worth like evergreen told me to cause all I did was apply it at week 3/4 and I’m bug free . I will test it a few more times and if that works out it will be my IPM cement on fg

Rove beetles ( adult FG eater + other pest)

Rove beetle (Dalotia coriaria) or Atheta coriaria

Rove beetles (Dalotia coriaria), formerly known as Atheta coriaria, are used primarily to assist in the control of shore flies and fungus gnats and other small arthropods in the soil or planting media. They also help control soil stages of thrips and feed on most other small soil organisms such...

www.evergreengrowers.com

Nemasys (nematode that eats FG and thrips)

Steinernema feltiae Beneficial Nematodes

Target Pests: Larval stages of fungus gnats (Bradysia spp.), adult and pupal stages of western flower thrips (Frankliniella occidentalis) Description: Beneficial nematodes are microscopic worms that attack and kill targeted insects, without affecting any other organisms. Within the infected...

www.evergreengrowers.com

FullFuzzy · Jul 6, 2020

Week 3 of Flowering
Switched to my 400W HPS bulb, added the activated carbon filter, changed the exhaust & tower fan to be 24/7, and changed the schedule to be 12/12 at the beginning of flowering 2 weeks prior (making this the start of the third week). Things seem to be going fine first week, gnat population decreased significantly, but then the plants seemed to be under nutritional stress & dehydrated, lower leaves started defoliating themselves in particular, leaves cupped a little bit & started dropping a bit, general yellowing seems present even on some higher leaves although it's harder for me to tell under the HPS. Not much stretch occurred on them except for a bit on the tallest one, the other two are not much taller than they were before. I realised that I was well under the recommended doses for nutrients on the label, so I started giving a little more which seems to help, which makes them look healthier, but brings back much of the gnat population causing stress again since in order to keep my soil from being completely dry I have water once a day. They're all under 90cm tall including the pots (included a shot compared to my tower fan which is 90cm tall), and I don't think I will get the most out of them if they continue flowering at this time, so I've changed the light cycle to a 19/5 one, whilst otherwise leaving their other environmental situation the same in order to return them to veg & let them recover before trying to flower again. Is this an overreaction? Are they just taking some time to respond to the new schedule? Also haven't been spraying anything anymore since I thought it may have been causing light burn, but the issues I thought it may have caused like spots on some leaves is continuing, so I doubt it was a cause. Maybe considering topping the tallest plant again to create a more uniform canopy as well with the other plants

tl;dr
3rd week of Flower, plants haven't stretched much & are losing leaves, should I reveg or persevere?

Aqua Man · Jul 6, 2020

FullFuzzy said:
Week 3 of Flowering
Switched to my 400W HPS bulb, added the activated carbon filter, changed the exhaust & tower fan to be 24/7, and changed the schedule to be 12/12 at the beginning of flowering 2 weeks prior (making this the start of the third week). Things seem to be going fine first week, gnat population decreased significantly, but then the plants seemed to be under nutritional stress & dehydrated, lower leaves started defoliating themselves in particular, leaves cupped a little bit & started dropping a bit, general yellowing seems present even on some higher leaves although it's harder for me to tell under the HPS. Not much stretch occurred on them except for a bit on the tallest one, the other two are not much taller than they were before. I realised that I was well under the recommended doses for nutrients on the label, so I started giving a little more which seems to help, which makes them look healthier, but brings back much of the gnat population causing stress again since in order to keep my soil from being completely dry I have water once a day. They're all under 90cm tall including the pots (included a shot compared to my tower fan which is 90cm tall), and I don't think I will get the most out of them if they continue flowering at this time, so I've changed the light cycle to a 19/5 one, whilst otherwise leaving their other environmental situation the same in order to return them to veg & let them recover before trying to flower again. Is this an overreaction? Are they just taking some time to respond to the new schedule? Also haven't been spraying anything anymore since I thought it may have been causing light burn, but the issues I thought it may have caused like spots on some leaves is continuing, so I doubt it was a cause. Maybe considering topping the tallest plant again to create a more uniform canopy as well with the other plants

tl;dr
3rd week of Flower, plants haven't stretched much & are losing leaves, should I reveg or persevere?

Tough call, personal decision. Personally I would have said don't flip until healthy but that's not gonna help ya now. If you reveg it's gonna take a fair bit of time for normal growth.

sambapati · Jul 6, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Tough call, personal decision. Personally I would have said don't flip until healthy but that's not gonna help ya now. If you reveg it's gonna take a fair bit of time for normal growth.

I would encourage you to stay the course and realize that you are having a learning experience. You have the strips going for you and you might also burn dried sage leaves because the bugs hate that. You might also get a lemongrass aroma theropy and leaving some lime or lemon peels on the pot surface.

FullFuzzy · Jul 23, 2020

Been just over 3 weeks since I last posted, I switched to a 19/5 schedule on the day that I posted & have been feeding them more nutrients with minimum day gaps to keep the soil dry. Gnats still present to some extent, but usually reduced. Plants haven't reverted to vegetative growth yet, just ran out of veg nutrients so I will likely have to order more. Plants haven't grown much, although they developed some basic flowers almost immediately after I changed the schedule back to veg. Should I cut the flowers to revert to veg? Should I return to flower and finish? I'm okay with waiting a little longer, getting some extra nutrients and getting them to a healthier stage before continuing flowering to get a better yield & healthier plant, but I'd also like to not kill my plants so if going back to flower, and using my flower nutrients that are already here is the way to go here would be good to know.

I also think that some stress on the plants may have been due to cold nights, had the intake & tower fan on 24/7, but the weather has been incredibly cold lately so I've put the tower fan on the same schedule as the lights. This may also be why the stems are quite dark/not green in earlier photos, so hopefully that makes some difference. (I can put the exhaust on the same schedule as well if need be, but I don't think it's that cold)

Took photos just after lights off with phone light, as the HPS light makes it difficult to judge leaf color accurately I think

sambapati · Jul 23, 2020

FullFuzzy said:
Been just over 3 weeks since I last posted, I switched to a 19/5 schedule on the day that I posted & have been feeding them more nutrients with minimum day gaps to keep the soil dry. Gnats still present to some extent, but usually reduced. Plants haven't reverted to vegetative growth yet, just ran out of veg nutrients so I will likely have to order more. Plants haven't grown much, although they developed some basic flowers almost immediately after I changed the schedule back to veg. Should I cut the flowers to revert to veg? Should I return to flower and finish? I'm okay with waiting a little longer, getting some extra nutrients and getting them to a healthier stage before continuing flowering to get a better yield & healthier plant, but I'd also like to not kill my plants so if going back to flower, and using my flower nutrients that are already here is the way to go here would be good to know.

I also think that some stress on the plants may have been due to cold nights, had the intake & tower fan on 24/7, but the weather has been incredibly cold lately so I've put the tower fan on the same schedule as the lights. This may also be why the stems are quite dark/not green in earlier photos, so hopefully that makes some difference. (I can put the exhaust on the same schedule as well if need be, but I don't think it's that cold)

Took photos just after lights off with phone light, as the HPS light makes it difficult to judge leaf color accurately I think

The plants are looking better....

First Grow Attempt

First Grow Attempt

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Rove beetle (Dalotia coriaria) or Atheta coriaria

Steinernema feltiae Beneficial Nematodes

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Rove beetle (Dalotia coriaria) or Atheta coriaria

Steinernema feltiae Beneficial Nematodes

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