flip relay DPDT questions.. please read

[grinkeeper]

there is many great tutorial and pics on the topic of FLIP BOXES bUT I have a qiestion that I cant get a clear answer to...

I am actually building flips for 2x 600watt digi ballast.. I have everything set up for the shut down during the flip so its not hard flipped or under load as the ballast will power down using an AUBE 30 amp dpdt timer..but for now forget about how the ballast are timer or anything.. just concentrate on the FLIP FLOP QUESTIONS I will be posing

so I have a bunch of nice stuff to build my flips.. 10x10x4 steel knock enclosers, nice receptical boxes and 240v nema plugs and wire connectors for the knockouts even.. all the goodies...the relays are cuttler hammer 40 amp contactors very tough units, twice the size of the NTE brand. specs are 40 amp , 600v, coil 120v.. ther is L1 L2 T1 T2 plus the 2 coil lines spades

now I have had a few people tell me that its possible to have L1 and L2 accept a ballast each.. so a DPDT can run 2 ballast inputs , so thats L1 would be ballast 1, L2 would be ballast 2..

then T1 would handle ballast 1s bulb "a" and ballast 2 bulb "a"
T2 would handle ballast 1s bulb "B" and ballast 2s BULB "B"

SO a single DPDT would have the capability to 4 bulbs in total and 2 ballast inputs..

HAS anyone done this yet.. or have any electrical experience doing this sort of thing..

for instance if your only gonna build a 1 ballast 2 bulb flip ,I just dont see the reason to use DPDT when the L2 input is left un used.. for a 1 ballast 2 bulb flip a SPDT is all that would be needed right..

so a DPDT should handle 2 ballast and four bulbs right...

My set up is 240 volt.. by the way but that really doesn't change the wiring after the ballast or should I say on the output side of the ballast, basically the bulb wire...hot neutral and ground..

can some one please comment on this before I go out and buy more relays..

 

[gettin it done]

If you are going to wire your ballast 220 then I would suggest using a DPDT relay or you will always have power to the bulb on your would be neutral leg and is unsafe, I do not recommend this. If you wire the ballast 110 then you can get away with a SPDT relay as there will only be power to one leg. I assume that you would be planning on using a blade or pin relay if you are thinking you only need SPDT relay (these are not 600 volt rated) and can and do burn up with certain brands of digital ballasts. If you are using a 30 amp 600v rated relay you will only find then in a DPDT style.

Might I suggest that your contactor to shut down before the flip, run threw a heat cool stat after your clock to protect your room from over heating wiring it to the heating side and setting it do your desired temp to shut down the contactor ensuring the safety of your loved ones :-)

to wire that into both rooms you will need to send power to both stats through a relay wiring the coil of the relay to your flip clock. to do this use a DPDT relay wiring power in com1 and say rm A to the NC1 and room B to the NO1. Then the return from the line voltage t-stat in rm A gets wired to the NC2 and rm B NO2 then from the com2 to the contactor. that will release when the room gets to hot breaking the power to your ballast and turning back on when the room cools.
GL

 

[convex]

240v DPDT 2 lamp system

 

[Olyver]

If you are going to wire your ballast 220 then I would suggest using a DPDT relay or you will always have power to the bulb on your would be neutral leg and is unsafe, I do not recommend this.

Might I suggest that your contactor to shut down before the flip, run threw a heat cool stat after your clock to protect your room from over heating wiring it to the heating side and setting it do your desired temp to shut down the contactor ensuring the safety of your loved ones :-)

to wire that into both rooms you will need to send power to both stats through a relay wiring the coil of the relay to your flip clock. to do this use a DPDT relay wiring power in com1 and say rm A to the NC1 and room B to the NO1. Then the return from the line voltage t-stat in rm A gets wired to the NC2 and rm B NO2 then from the com2 to the contactor. that will release when the room gets to hot breaking the power to your ballast and turning back on when the room cools.
GL

Exactly like GID says. Use one dpdt relay for 1 ballast and 2 lights if your ballasts are powered for 220V/240V. Some manufacturers like Horticontrol use 1 relay for 2 ballasts and 4 lights, and since 120V is being fed to the neutral line to the ballast,and the other 120V line is going to the 240V tap on the ballast, it's a potential shock hazard. Shutting off some digital ballasts is recommended and it does save on wear and tear (arcing) of the flip relay contact points.

The thermal shutoff is a good idea, just wire it like it says.

Here's a pic of an 8 ballast flip with a PLC link to switch 1 light at a time and has the option of 18/6 veg cycles in both rooms. It also has two 120V receptacles to switch/flip any 120V devices in both rooms.

 

[grinkeeper]

SO I have been given some great info here .. THANK YOU ... to GETTER DONE, CONVEX AND THE MASTER HIME SELF... WIRE " OLYVER" NUTZ //// I just love your master work and would never buy HORTI" OUT OF "CONTROL ....... and the the fights between both of you has done nothing but put a black eye on some great canadian work....

I really appreciate everyone help....

I have a built a few things differently after reading olyvers many great technical posts here and other places...

Im still wondering about a few details... on wiring the relays..

by the way I have bought different relays as the EASTON contactos WERE not DPDT.. they were dpst..... that was what confiusded the hell out of me at first....

but now Im straightened out on the in and out of the relays....


I still wonder about common mistakes with flips wiring... I have the correct relays and the 40 amp/ 600v DPDT , MAGNECRAFT brand I beleive.....

questions...
1.... with the coil wiring.. I will have a simple hardware store digital timer to trigger the coils... SO wiring it correctly is pretty straight forward I am thinking... as its 120v coil.. . so I am gonna have a 3 prong male plug going from the flip box to the timer....I will ground plug in the box, simple, then the question part....
The hot and the neutral, is there a spesific config to these 2 wire on the coil terminals????

2. COIL positions... is there a prefered position to have the coil position in? it can only be in 1 of 2 positions obviously.. as I see it the coil will be powered up with 120v or it will have no voltage and be in it natural positions... So is there really any preference for position....?????? I cant seem to think there is much to this but I HAVE heard there is a right and wrong way to do the coil wiring and of course I want to do it right the first time... SO any help with coil positions would be great....

3. this inst a questions.. just a detail I wanted to make clear...I have gotten my load center set up by an electrician.. its 240volts... and I even got the 240 recepticals and plugs....... the AUBE timer I have will be used to shut the ballast down for 5 mins and be syncronized with the flip box timers.. So yeas I will have the flip box do there switching will the BALLAST ARE POWERED DOWN/ OFF.... SAVING wear and tear on relays and other components... thanks for the advise....


So please post any links to correct methods for the flip wirings... and once again.. thank you all for your great help...

here is some pics of whats I have built so far... actually these are a little old as there has been more work done since these pics.. but gives you a bit of an idea of what Im dealing with... new pics will be posted soon...


but I do need help with pit falls of the wiring of coil , and positions and all that... but as far as the wirings of the lamp cords to the bulbs and on the other side to the ballast is , so it seems straight forwards as reading many other threads including this one....

thanks again and hope to hear your comments and advise..

 

[hiboy]

Most coils can be operated with the neutral and hot reversed. it wont matter. it never hurts to read the directions or the schematic on the timer if it has one
h

 

[convex]

I myself, have yet to see an A.C. powered coil that is pole specific, but as hiboy pointed out, it is always best to read the specs! ;)


Cheers