Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Moe.Red · Feb 3, 2023

Bluebuddha said:
Not sure if this is the same thing but this is MB15 and it may have some of the same family genetics. It was a bitch to stabilize and grow out of that mottled leaf stage. It still has some but after it grew, it got less severe. I had issues with bacteria and not enough airflow. I hit them with Orca, S AG and TPS billions. I know you keep your space clean so prob not the issue.

This is a real funny place to be in. Foreign territory to me. I’ve gotten advice from several top growers now and the consensus is there is no consensus.

So frustrating to not be able to pinpoint what they need.

I’ve dealt with a ton of struggling plants before but it always seems to come down to environment lighting nutes or roots or genetics. Roots are great and I got control over all the others but genetics.

Is it possible I have found a pair of strains that cannot be grown in hydro? WTF.

This is why I love growing weed tho. It’s the coolest puzzle there is.

Right now the answer is more time at low light and leave them be.

SweetLeafGrow · Feb 3, 2023

You know my experience level so take this with a grain of salt, but....

What if you just set things to your "normal" growth parameters for a clone in this stage of growth and.....walk away from it.

Those roots look awesome and are definitely growing. Maybe she just needs more time to build that foundation before she does her thing up top.

Dirtbag · Feb 3, 2023

1diesel1 said:
Most likely a stupid question at this point but, Definitely no bugs?

Crossed my mind also. Some mites can cause similar damage and are next to impossible to see. But knowing the source of these clones I'd be very surprised if that's the case.

@Moe.Red I have no experience with rdwc and haven't followed along enough to know your feeding specifics and all that so can't really offer any assistance other than to say we've all been there, I hope they turn around for ya.

Im curious to know what your room temp, RH, EC ph and ppfd is? Water source has enough alkalinity? Calcium? Ph is stable without too much adjustment?

smokedareefer · Feb 3, 2023

Moe.Red said:
This is a real funny place to be in. Foreign territory to me. I’ve gotten advice from several top growers now and the consensus is there is no consensus.

So frustrating to not be able to pinpoint what they need.

I’ve dealt with a ton of struggling plants before but it always seems to come down to environment lighting nutes or roots or genetics. Roots are great and I got control over all the others but genetics.

Is it possible I have found a pair of strains that cannot be grown in hydro? WTF.

This is why I love growing weed tho. It’s the coolest puzzle there is.

Right now the answer is more time at low light and leave them be.

Patience is a wonderful thing.

Moe.Red said:
Is it possible I have found a pair of strains that cannot be grown in hydro? WTF.

Impossible

ghost1979 · Feb 3, 2023

Dirtbag said:
Crossed my mind also. Some mites can cause similar damage and are next to impossible to see. But knowing the source of these clones I'd be very surprised if that's the case.

@Moe.Red I have no experience with rdwc and haven't followed along enough to know your feeding specifics and all that so can't really offer any assistance other than to say we've all been there, I hope they turn around for ya.

Im curious to know what your room temp, RH, EC ph and ppfd is? Water source has enough alkalinity? Calcium? Ph is stable without too much adjustment?

Hi I have rdwc sistem I maidet. I use advance nutritions is expensive but bacteria do work . First what sistem you have ? How many litres buckets?

Moe.Red · Feb 3, 2023

SweetLeafGrow said:
You know my experience level so take this with a grain of salt, but....

What if you just set things to your "normal" growth parameters for a clone in this stage of growth and.....walk away from it.

Those roots look awesome and are definitely growing. Maybe she just needs more time to build that foundation before she does her thing up top.

If you were here you’d understand immediately. These girls are not happy. No smell. Leaves just twisting on themselves. Even new growth. They almost feel fake if that makes sense.

The most plausible explanation right now is transport shock. Plus cold. But these clones actually arrived a day early and temps were not bad.

I wonder if I had started from dirt it might have had more time to catch up.

The plant is focusing all new growth on roots. I can’t figure that part out. It’s like the environment is so perfect for root growth that’s what it’s doing. I tried to convince them it was a stupid way to grow but they won’t listen.

Moe.Red · Feb 3, 2023

smokedareefer said:
Patience is a wonderful thing.

Impossible

Best advice so far. Agree 100%

Moe.Red · Feb 3, 2023

Dirtbag said:
Crossed my mind also. Some mites can cause similar damage and are next to impossible to see. But knowing the source of these clones I'd be very surprised if that's the case.

@Moe.Red I have no experience with rdwc and haven't followed along enough to know your feeding specifics and all that so can't really offer any assistance other than to say we've all been there, I hope they turn around for ya.

Im curious to know what your room temp, RH, EC ph and ppfd is? Water source has enough alkalinity? Calcium? Ph is stable without too much adjustment?

Ok I didn’t look everywhere with a scope I should not have said no so quickly to diesel. I’ll check more closely. If I find anything I’ll show you under the scope.

The spike down you see is when I got in the tent for pics.

I can make those numbers whatever I want.

Ppfd is 400 at the top of the plant. Until yesterday it was just under 300 because the bloom enhancer lights were off. Bottom of plant was just over 100. The plant has grown vertically into the light raising ppfd.

Light 40 inches away at minimum. Cobs.

I have attempted lower ppfd and most recently tried shifting spectrum towards red.

GreenGalaxyFarm · Feb 3, 2023

Moe.Red said:
I have attempted lower ppfd and most recently tried shifting spectrum towards red.

interestingly shifting all the way to red/fr mostly will make the plant think shes growing in the shade. and stretch causing you to need to adjust height to accomodate for changes in ppfd more regularly. im just popping into this thread now not gonna be able to contribute tho on this topic(soil nerd) but very interesting thread though, refreshing

Moe.Red · Feb 3, 2023

GreenGalaxyFarm said:
interestingly shifting all the way to red/fr mostly will make the plant think shes growing in the shade. and stretch causing you to need to adjust height to accomodate for changes in ppfd more regularly. im just popping into this thread now not gonna be able to contribute tho on this topic(soil nerd) but very interesting thread though, refreshing

The red thing was a test. I’m out of environmental things to try. Back to veg baseline on lights but at minimum.

Cool_Beans · Feb 3, 2023

You gotta wheel the garbage can into the tent and leave it there where they can see it.

Moshmen · Feb 3, 2023

Moe.Red said:
There comes that special time in every grower's life, where they just have to admit they have no idea what they are doing. I guess that's today for the mouthy stooge.

First up, the real sour. Aptly named, cause it is making me sour.

View attachment 1326762
View attachment 1326763
View attachment 1326764

Root life rockin. Above ground sucking.

View attachment 1326765

Next, Sour Diesel. I need an exhaust pipe to suck on.

View attachment 1326767 View attachment 1326768

View attachment 1326769

View attachment 1326766

These plants are getting worse, not better.

View attachment 1326770

So the changes yesterday were to shut off all air movement and shift towards red photons. Didn't work.

This is starting to get under my skin a bit. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Sorry brother ! Gotta say it - raise the light and add some calmag

Moshmen · Feb 3, 2023

Moe.Red said:
Ok I didn’t look everywhere with a scope I should not have said no so quickly to diesel. I’ll check more closely. If I find anything I’ll show you under the scope.

View attachment 1326846

View attachment 1326847

The spike down you see is when I hit in the tent for pics.

I can make those numbers whatever I want.

Ppfd is 400 at the top of the plant. Until yesterday it was just under 300 because the bloom enhancer lights were off. Bottom of plant was just over 100. The plant has grown vertically into the light raising ppfd.

Light 40 inches away at minimum. Cobs.

I have attempted lower ppfd and most recently tried shifting spectrum towards red.

Dude that’s all spot on - if DB or Aqua ain’t got the answer ? And u don’t ? There’s a def mystery

Wish I was smart enuff to help out , but ur learning me up some more

Moe.Red · Feb 3, 2023

Moshmen said:
Dude that’s all spot on - if DB or Aqua ain’t got the answer ? And u don’t ? There’s a def mystery

Wish I was smart enuff to help out , but ur learning me up some more

Well I’m still kinda following aqua here with the wait and see at low ppfd Hoping they snap out of it.

If they do I’m probably gonna do tissue culture and start over. The morphology is off now even if they recover. Haven’t had the heart to top or lst.

GreenGalaxyFarm · Feb 3, 2023

Moe.Red said:
I definitely need to consider this side of the argument. I should run H2O2 in one of the 4 fog systems as part of the test.

My results that say beneficials improve weed are anecdotal.

I need to define the parameters of success tho. Let say I grow 8 identical clones from Tissue Culture in 4 individual systems in a single grow chamber with proper control and lighting. As close to a lab experiment as we are gonna get.

Maybe 1 = H2O2
2 = Orca
3 = Nothing
4 = Res water from the RDWC system

How do you declare a winning method? Lab testing a given. Accurate harvest, all that. I'll document it all.

That question is for everyone.

since fungi indirectly affect the root architecture, growth and nutrient uptake, capability of the plant should improve. finding out if they are beneficial for nutrient uptake might prove hard but growth not so much. unless im understanding the scenario wrong

Dirtbag · Feb 4, 2023

Moe.Red said:
Ok I didn’t look everywhere with a scope I should not have said no so quickly to diesel. I’ll check more closely. If I find anything I’ll show you under the scope.

View attachment 1326846

View attachment 1326847

The spike down you see is when I hit in the tent for pics.

I can make those numbers whatever I want.

Ppfd is 400 at the top of the plant. Until yesterday it was just under 300 because the bloom enhancer lights were off. Bottom of plant was just over 100. The plant has grown vertically into the light raising ppfd.

Light 40 inches away at minimum. Cobs.

I have attempted lower ppfd and most recently tried shifting spectrum towards red.

I'd bump that feed up to 1Ec or 500 ppm, get the temp up to 75-78f and ph to 5.5.

tobh · Feb 4, 2023

i'll rejoin the party, and reiterate what Dirtbag said. the presentation (a handful of issues all looking related to lockout) looks like some infestation. possibly something nefarious. i know original sour and chem lines can be finicky (fuckin original OG traits) but them lookin worse than my own fucked up genetic line.

i know you have a microscope, harvest some samples from the roots and put em on slides. iirc russet mites are notoriously tiny (invisible to the naked eye) and those fuckers will make a grower chase tail.

another option is to confirm you don't have any unwanted fungi growing. grey algae has destroyed many a rdwc grower, causing them to throw out entire systems. again, i know you have the equipment, so take a swap of the res and run some agar plates to confirm only what you want is in there.

probably preaching to the choir, so disregard all the above if it came across condescending. i trust you'll find the root cause, no pun intended.

Moe.Red · Feb 4, 2023

Thanks @Dirtbag @tobh im gonna let them wake up, I’ll report in with latest, and then show some microscopy. I’ll make the adjustments DB mentioned.

I’m really leaning towards a bug of some sort as most plausible at this point. I can say without a doubt this system was not the source. It was fully sterilized just prior to clones going in.

Currently these are the only 2 things growing in my basement. No mushrooms no micro greens. RH very low and it is cold in the lungroom. Not hospitable for bugs of any kind.

I can flip this to a sterile res in a heartbeat if we think something below is the issue but I’m struggling to believe this is in the roots. They look perfect and are growing what I would consider to be normally for this system.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions from everyone. This is a truly great community.

Goodshit97 · Feb 4, 2023

Moe.Red said:
There comes that special time in every grower's life, where they just have to admit they have no idea what they are doing. I guess that's today for the mouthy stooge.

First up, the real sour. Aptly named, cause it is making me sour.

View attachment 1326762
View attachment 1326763
View attachment 1326764

Root life rockin. Above ground sucking.

View attachment 1326765

Next, Sour Diesel. I need an exhaust pipe to suck on.

View attachment 1326767 View attachment 1326768

View attachment 1326769

View attachment 1326766

These plants are getting worse, not better.

View attachment 1326770

So the changes yesterday were to shut off all air movement and shift towards red photons. Didn't work.

This is starting to get under my skin a bit. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Wow man, these things are really giving you the run around, when i saw you were picking up clones, i didnt expect you to have any issues, especially after your last run in that system. I really hope you get these things dialed in.

Moe.Red · Feb 4, 2023

Goodshit97 said:
Wow man, these things are really giving you the run around, when i saw you were picking up clones, i didnt expect you to have any issues, especially after your last run in that system. I really hope you get these things dialed in.

Thanks bro. I’m not even mad. It is humbling tho.

Just when you think you got a handle on things…

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Moe.Red

SweetLeafGrow

Dirtbag

smokedareefer

ghost1979

Moe.Red

Moe.Red

Moe.Red

GreenGalaxyFarm

Moe.Red

Cool_Beans

Moshmen

Moshmen

Moe.Red

GreenGalaxyFarm

Dirtbag

tobh

Moe.Red

Goodshit97

Moe.Red

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