Foxtailing help in Current Culture DWC, LEDs

Tiffanylos92 · Sep 25, 2021

Hi fellow growers,

I'm relatively new at growing, this will be 6th harvest. My business partner got me all set up with a great grow who has had much experience growing. But most of my strains foxtail (see pictures)... I grow in Current culture recirculating system DWC, follow current culture nutrient feeding schedule, grow under 8 645/720W LED lights, and run CO2 burners . My business partner said the only reason he ever had foxtails was from a light leak. But I've sat in this room for 30 minutes in dark, and it is light proof. What I was thinking is that it has to be the temperature (which I keep between 76-72 during flower with my AC unit) or being too close to the lights that keeps causing this to happen. I only have 1 strain, the triangle mints that never foxtails on me. Any guidance would be great! Thanks so much.

j1sonbrother · Sep 25, 2021

76 Fahrenheit，that is not too much man.
I think it’s light intensity, and btw if it’s u know if it’s just the tops that are getting the fox tails those are the ones that are closest to the light.
Some plants are very resistant to foxtailing while others will do it very easily .

FOE20 · Sep 25, 2021

To much N that deep into flower...Your "growing" Calyx's at this point, not swelling them...Thats also why you have withered pistils and fresh pistils, fresh = new growth...When the plant should of dialed down N earlier or your PK is to Balanced and should be Higher as well to work with the reserved N...
Also why your Lower buds look finished and your Top buds look Active...
Most will say temps or its genetic....Its actually a response to the amount of N left at that stage for that variety IMO....
It may of helped to defoliate quite a bit to help remove the reserve N its feeding on...
And if you flush now....It only will open up that N reserve more so....cause you will be removing the PK which should of been the dom part of the formula thru back end of bloom anyway..
Cannabis is a Top down Plant..meaning what you feed or is in the root zone goes up to the Top growth first...Then the nutes work their way Down from the Top...The lower buds eat Last.....But your Plant was already done (as far as it was concerned), and now its starting to Re-Flower...starting from the Top...you want to prevent this...
Ask your partner how that analysis sits with him....power to it

ps: my solution to quickly Dial down that plant and force a fast finish may not be what you want to try on your plants as well...
But I can recommend a finishing solution for you if it comes to it...curious on your partners input...and I know DWC well.....gl
FOE20

j1sonbrother · Sep 25, 2021

If the strains doesn't usually look the way you might consider backing off light or dimming them back a bit

DrStadanko · Sep 26, 2021

Tiffanylos92 said:
Hi fellow growers,

I'm relatively new at growing, this will be 6th harvest. My business partner got me all set up with a great grow who has had much experience growing. But most of my strains foxtail (see pictures)... I grow in Current culture recirculating system DWC, follow current culture nutrient feeding schedule, grow under 8 645/720W LED lights, and run CO2 burners . My business partner said the only reason he ever had foxtails was from a light leak. But I've sat in this room for 30 minutes in dark, and it is light proof. What I was thinking is that it has to be the temperature (which I keep between 76-72 during flower with my AC unit) or being too close to the lights that keeps causing this to happen. I only have 1 strain, the triangle mints that never foxtails on me. Any guidance would be great! Thanks so much. View attachment 1172564

Good morning, I see your plants have light poisoning ..............to much light, like the contributor below many strains fox tail, next
grow turn the lights down slightly it wont affect your grams per ounce. you will be glad you did, keep N low during flower
good luck
DrStadanko

Tiffanylos92 · Sep 27, 2021

DrStadanko said:
Good morning, I see your plants have light poisoning ..............to much light, like the contributor below many strains fox tail, next
grow turn the lights down slightly it wont affect your grams per ounce. you will be glad you did, keep N low during flower
good luck
DrStadanko

DrStadanko said:

Good morning, I see your plants have light poisoning ..............to much light, like the contributor below many strains fox tail, next
grow turn the lights down slightly it wont affect your grams per ounce. you will be glad you did, keep N low during flower
good luck
DrStadanko

Click to expand...

Hey thanks for the reply and advice! The one thing is I did keep the lights at no more than 60% the entire time... maybe I need to alternate the lights, so only half are on each day to take down the amount of light some more? My 645 and 720 W Led dim down to 40%

Tiffanylos92 · Sep 27, 2021

FOE20 said:
To much N that deep into flower...Your "growing" Calyx's at this point, not swelling them...Thats also why you have withered pistils and fresh pistils, fresh = new growth...When the plant should of dialed down N earlier or your PK is to Balanced and should be Higher as well to work with the reserved N...
Also why your Lower buds look finished and your Top buds look Active...
Most will say temps or its genetic....Its actually a response to the amount of N left at that stage for that variety IMO....
It may of helped to defoliate quite a bit to help remove the reserve N its feeding on...
And if you flush now....It only will open up that N reserve more so....cause you will be removing the PK which should of been the dom part of the formula thru back end of bloom anyway..
Cannabis is a Top down Plant..meaning what you feed or is in the root zone goes up to the Top growth first...Then the nutes work their way Down from the Top...The lower buds eat Last.....But your Plant was already done (as far as it was concerned), and now its starting to Re-Flower...starting from the Top...you want to prevent this...
Ask your partner how that analysis sits with him....power to it

ps: my solution to quickly Dial down that plant and force a fast finish may not be what you want to try on your plants as well...
But I can recommend a finishing solution for you if it comes to it...curious on your partners input...and I know DWC well.....gl
FOE20

Wow... this is great input thanks so much.... definitely going to dial back my N deep in flower now

Tiffanylos92 · Sep 28, 2021

FOE20 said:
To much N that deep into flower...Your "growing" Calyx's at this point, not swelling them...Thats also why you have withered pistils and fresh pistils, fresh = new growth...When the plant should of dialed down N earlier or your PK is to Balanced and should be Higher as well to work with the reserved N...
Also why your Lower buds look finished and your Top buds look Active...
Most will say temps or its genetic....Its actually a response to the amount of N left at that stage for that variety IMO....
It may of helped to defoliate quite a bit to help remove the reserve N its feeding on...
And if you flush now....It only will open up that N reserve more so....cause you will be removing the PK which should of been the dom part of the formula thru back end of bloom anyway..
Cannabis is a Top down Plant..meaning what you feed or is in the root zone goes up to the Top growth first...Then the nutes work their way Down from the Top...The lower buds eat Last.....But your Plant was already done (as far as it was concerned), and now its starting to Re-Flower...starting from the Top...you want to prevent this...
Ask your partner how that analysis sits with him....power to it

ps: my solution to quickly Dial down that plant and force a fast finish may not be what you want to try on your plants as well...
But I can recommend a finishing solution for you if it comes to it...curious on your partners input...and I know DWC well.....gl
FOE20

Tiffanylos92 said:
Wow... this is great input. Thanks so much.... definitely going to dial back my N so much more now

Tiffanylos92 · Oct 5, 2021

FOE20 said:
To much N that deep into flower...Your "growing" Calyx's at this point, not swelling them...Thats also why you have withered pistils and fresh pistils, fresh = new growth...When the plant should of dialed down N earlier or your PK is to Balanced and should be Higher as well to work with the reserved N...
Also why your Lower buds look finished and your Top buds look Active...
Most will say temps or its genetic....Its actually a response to the amount of N left at that stage for that variety IMO....
It may of helped to defoliate quite a bit to help remove the reserve N its feeding on...
And if you flush now....It only will open up that N reserve more so....cause you will be removing the PK which should of been the dom part of the formula thru back end of bloom anyway..
Cannabis is a Top down Plant..meaning what you feed or is in the root zone goes up to the Top growth first...Then the nutes work their way Down from the Top...The lower buds eat Last.....But your Plant was already done (as far as it was concerned), and now its starting to Re-Flower...starting from the Top...you want to prevent this...
Ask your partner how that analysis sits with him....power to it

ps: my solution to quickly Dial down that plant and force a fast finish may not be what you want to try on your plants as well...
But I can recommend a finishing solution for you if it comes to it...curious on your partners input...and I know DWC well.....gl
FOE20

Current culture tells me not adjust feed schedule to reduce N late in flower... I definitely am still going to for this strain though

BurnzYzBudZz · Oct 5, 2021

Plants are locked out from stress. I’ve never burned co2 but it is my understanding that when supplementing co2, people usually run their rooms hotter. Especially in LED rooms. 72-76 is a bit cold. This ones looking good and almost in the bag. You’ll still harvest a nice one. Good luck and happy grows.
burnz

Aqua Man · Oct 5, 2021

I agree to much N and showing a slight K deficiency prob as a result of ratios.

Temps in late flower seem about right.

Humidity maybe a tad low but i didn't read to see what it is.

Possibly wind a touch high but again can be something else.

About the only thing I think they could be right about is light being a touch high which is one of the other things it could be beside wind.

At this point not alot can be done and nothing can reverse it.

@FOE20 had a really smart suggestion on removing fans so it can't draw on the N stored in them.

MedicalOnly · Oct 17, 2021

I read that foxtailing buds wont devolop a white ash and will burn harsh. Is this true?

delps8 · Nov 12, 2021

Get a PAR meter. Do not stop. Do not pass go. Get a PAR meter.

You've got a least $5k tied up in lights and multiples of $5k tied up in "plant" (in the accounting sense) so it's pennywise and pound foolish to not have a device that tells you how much light your plants are receiving. Dollars to doughnuts, you're leaving money on the table if you're not using a LI-COR or an Apogee.

I went with the Apogee MQ-200 and, even though I'm using only a 2' x 4' tent (it's a personal grow and that's all the room I've got), the Apogee tells me how much PAR light is hitting the plants. There are smart phone apps that are very inexpensive and provide you with similar information but, even for a personal grow, for me time is money (I'm a programmer and I bill by the hour) so the $600± that I spent to kit out the Apogee is money well spent.

One way that I'm using the Apogee. The attachment is from an Excel spreadsheet that I use to determine light level. Based on the PPFD readings, I can see that my canopy is very even with the exception of Jeff in the front row. Given that the light reading for Jeff at the front of the plant is high, I will get more even canopy if I super crop or LST the plant or if I raise the right front corner of the light. Given that this is an Autoflower grow, I can adjust the light schedule at will so I can dial in the exact DLI that I want.

I tested Photone earlier this year, before it was renamed from "Korona", and I traded emails with the programmer. As a programmer, I have a good understanding of the approach that they're taking with Photone and you get far more than you pay. But (there's always a "but") they're using good software engineering to compensate for weaknesses in a sensor that's designed for a very different purpose. The sensor in an iPhone or Android phone is designed to be cheap and to capture images across the visible spectrum. I'm not knocking the iPhone - I've had one since Day 1 and was a software engineer for Apple for three years but, given the resources that you've invested (time, manpower, materiel, and money) there's no way that I would not use a product like an Apogee to determine light levels.

Photone is good software but the underlying hardware is design for a different purpose. For only $600 you get hardware designed to capture PAR as well software designed to make those readings spot on.

smokedareefer · Nov 12, 2021

MedicalOnly said:
I read that foxtailing buds wont devolop a white ash and will burn harsh. Is this true?

No

Cashmeh · Nov 14, 2021

I have noticed foxtailing under specific conditions. My thoughts to the causes of it in my specific grow would be two things. First there are spots where my scrog holds it down and stops the top buds from stretching up a fast. I feel the buds wouldnt have fox tailed had I not scrogged them, they would have been able to grow up easier and more evenly. Yet once they sit in the same spot for a while its like the crystals start becoming so hard that new growth can get through them, yet new growth will still form in the areas with the easiest path to the light. my second reason was a calmag deficiency or toxicity. I noticed on one plant that had some calmag leaf damage, yet didnt have scrogging issues, well it also had some slight foxtailing. All my other plants seem perfect. I could only imagine it happening because something stopped a part of its stretch.

Not very scientifical, but im sure someone can explain it better.

Foxtailing help in Current Culture DWC, LEDs

Foxtailing help in Current Culture DWC, LEDs

Tiffanylos92

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j1sonbrother

FOE20

Maestro Loco

j1sonbrother

DrStadanko

Tiffanylos92

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BurnzYzBudZz

HOWCan.i.helPYOU?

Aqua Man

MedicalOnly

delps8

smokedareefer

Cashmeh

Foxtailing help in Current Culture DWC, LEDs

Foxtailing help in Current Culture DWC, LEDs

Tiffanylos92

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j1sonbrother

FOE20

Maestro Loco

j1sonbrother

DrStadanko

Tiffanylos92

Tiffanylos92

Tiffanylos92

Tiffanylos92

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BurnzYzBudZz

HOWCan.i.helPYOU?

Aqua Man

MedicalOnly

delps8

smokedareefer

Cashmeh

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