Fried MLC 8, input fellow Coloradans.

Dopegeist · Apr 11, 2013

Used when I got it, MLC 8.
Top relay not powering hoods, bottom still powers hoods.
I had recently added 240 (x2 ballast) a few days ago.

Order of events:
Bulb burst, Plantmax, (little disc at base of element was fried with a hole right through it). Replaced bulb. Both relays powering ballasts. Bulb that burst is on working (bottom) relay. Replaced bulb.
Then next time I checked is when side (top) went down.

Next day, still four down (top relay).
Decided to open it up and much was pretty fried. In disgust, knowing what fun rewiring is going to be, I didn't linger long to check everything, power was on and I'll get that during the autopsy anyway.

Do you think?
1) perhaps I started pulling too much juice for the service (old box, no main breaker, still trying to figure out what my amperage available is) and that caused the heating of the internal wires of the lighting controller? (I would think if I were pulling too much juice it would overheat at the mains)
2) MLC is shitty controller and bound to overheat at some time, rewire and cross fingers?
3) Bulb bursting caused short and overheated the wires? Just took time to effect relay?
4) Because of way breakers are set up in this old box, I overloaded a side of the electrical box, and that caused overheating? Reason why one relay isn't fried?
5) Other?

Either way, that call to the electrician is coming sooner than later I guess. Any input appreciated.
If you think this should get moved Mods feel free, I just thought I CO is a good place to start.

Dopegeist · Apr 12, 2013

Thanks for looking.
After consulting some people, I think I figured out that controller isn't supposed to run more than 3 per relay. Shitty design seems to be the culprit.

Texas Kid · Apr 12, 2013

I used to run into all kinds of shit with my mlc8's, I finally tossed the and stepped up to the MLC 24's

Dopegeist · Apr 12, 2013

Yeah, I think a rewire and just running 6 on it should get me where I need to be...Then it's in the parts pile for a controller that isn't a fire hazard and has it's own breakers.
Was it just your wires that fried on the MLC 8, or did you get relays welding shut, or other?

Dopegeist · Apr 14, 2013

Well turns out the 10 AWG , 60 c wire that comes wired to the box was fried right before the first relay, both hots. And the 10 awg, 105 c between the relays was fried too. One almost completely fried it's terminal tab off.
The wiring to the box seems bigger than the ones between the relays, but that's what the sheathing says.
So looking at the breaker box, (old, real old), turns out that my 20 amp 240 circuit is only pulling off of one side of the service. Perhaps that had something to do with the overheating, as I just put 2 ballasts on that a few days prior to the problem, or just the choice of wire sizing is suspect?
Either way, electrical upgrades in the making and that extra circuit will no longer be operating at the same time, plus a couple 120 circuits off that same side :( Dang old boxes.

Shits going on a water timer, hooked to a 100 amp load center, with 6 awg from a 50A breaker (thru timer to load center), going to break that down on 3x 20A breakers. (all DP)
It's going to be like a ghetto mini-mlc 24.
It pays to keep broken shit around for parts.

If anyone sees any glaring safety concerns, please let me know. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Thanks for listening :)

Green Mopho · Apr 16, 2013

Go to Grainger and buy a 65 amp contactor and a junction box. Wire up your own "MLC" and stop putting your trust in tiny little Chinese hands!

Dopegeist · Apr 16, 2013

Haven't checked grainger for contactors yet.
I am kinda liking having my lights broken down to 20a circuits from the loadcenter. Makes me feel a little safer to know that I am relying on a 20a, not 50a, breaker to save my ass should something go wrong.

Got hooked up and working. 6 awg running from 50a breaker to Intermatic WH40, then 6 awg running from timer to 100A loadcenter, broken down into x3 20a circuits pulling x3 lights, x3 lights, x2 lights (8 total).

So far so good. Yeah, after building by first one, I think I build my own light controllers from now on. Those Chinese may be closer to the circuit board to see what they're doing, but bigger Americans get better torque on their wrenches :)

Green Mopho · Apr 18, 2013

Are you using a relay/trigger with those intermatic timers or are they also carrying the load? I got away from using the Intermatic time clocks because I fried myself really bad many years ago. Felt 240V go in one arm and come out the other, leaving me with permanent nerve damage. Nowadays I prefer 4 lights per 30amp breaker using a 50A contactor, nice not having the full load on the timer itself, whether its 20A, 30A, or 50A. Shit 1A is enough to kill burley lumberjack!

Dopegeist · Apr 18, 2013

It carries the load. Was your box grounded right? Were you touching the leads, box, wire sheathings? I got it, setting the dial...Yeah I'm already turning the breaker off to adjust time, metal disc looks like death trap should ground come undone and hot flow through the body.
Things are a bit ghetto at the moment, but I should have it all code soon enough.
Be using contactors/relays soon enough.
You don't find the worms till you open the can.
Now that I've opened the can, I'm regretting that decision.
Ignorance is bliss.

So you pulling 20a or 40a per contactor? Only problem with the 50a contactor is is may be more expensive (what I've seen so far, have to dig deeper) than a couple 30a contactors. I still am drawing up the designs for the new juice distro.

Green Mopho · Apr 18, 2013

4 lights per 30A breaker @ 240V through a 30+ Amp Contactor. Always good to give yourself some headroom.

new2theworld · Feb 16, 2014

hey what's up Green Mopho got a question for you. The 4 lights you talk about in your last post. How did you do the break down of the wiring?

Natural · Feb 16, 2014

Green Mopho said:
4 lights per 30A breaker @ 240V through a 30+ Amp Contactor. Always good to give yourself some headroom.

new2theworld said:
hey what's up Green Mopho got a question for you. The 4 lights you talk about in your last post. How did you do the break down of the wiring?

Hey new2theworld..it helps to hit the reply button at the bottom of posts..that way he'll get a notification..especially for old threads like this one..just a heads up.
Check this out..it might help you. http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp

Dopegeist · Feb 17, 2014

How much wiring experience do you have? Gone through a 'Home Depot' or 'Black and Decker' wiring book? Could get dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
I'm guessing he wired 30A wire into the 'input' terminals and ran 2x 15a lines off the load terminals.

Search 'Growroom Design' here at the farm.
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Mr.Sputnik · Feb 17, 2014

see it just LOOKS dangerous..

Fried MLC 8, input fellow Coloradans.

Fried MLC 8, input fellow Coloradans.

Dopegeist

Dopegeist

Texas Kid

Some guy with a light

Dopegeist

Dopegeist

Green Mopho

Dopegeist

Green Mopho

Dopegeist

Green Mopho

new2theworld

Natural

Dopegeist

Mr.Sputnik

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