DGP said:

If the best HID LAMPS are 50% efficient then how efficient do your leds need to be to make twice as much light? I used to be an led engineer and I am just saying nobody in the industry is capable of that, nobody. 100% efficiency?

No disrespect intended but there just aren't any Leds out there that can achieve 500w of equivalent light for 250 out of the wall.

This is why standards in the led market are needed. The specs don't even pass the giggle test.

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Basically there are set standards in LED industry, just not in Chinese marketing hahaha

We got the efficacy which is wit he LEDs at about 60% if the job is dome right and we got the efficiency which is with LEDs at about 200lm/w. HPS has about 30% efficacy when new and degrading with every hour and about 130lm/w efficiency. Now I know comparing one to another like this is not really comparable but those numbers are a base.

See the pictures,... results ... I'm new to LEDs but research first then buy... I'm over 30 yrs growing...NM, CO, DC... research first, do diligence, don't waste time... hehe...
cw

My understanding is the LEDs that are at 200 lm/watt are the best available currently but not "typical" (say 120-150 lm/watt is more reasonable) but I am pretty sure that fixture that was advertised at 500w equivalent light from 250w out of the wall is likely marketing hype. Last I heard Phillps had the lead with the 200 lm/watt specification. I would just say show the specifications and which LED manufacturer and type they used. It wouldn't hurt to see independent test data as well. A manufacturer who is confident in their performance data usually publishes the details.

Grow results are great but are dependent on so many things like strain characteristics, all the enviromental conditions and grower skill.

So, I went to the Super Grow website to really dig in and I clicked on the "download the specs" button and it just goes to another marketing "wordy" type page that says nothing about the exact LEDs they are using or the specs from the vendor of those LEDs. Then I click on another FAQ link that leads to yet another marketing type page and in the end guess what? No real specs just marketing words. All it ever says is 6th gen Epistar and Bridgelux LEDs and mentions the package type (whatever that is worth). They say "proprietary" LED design which means it's a mystery to the consumer and the bragging can go on endlessly cause nobody knows what it really is or isn't.

It would really help to see the real data on the LEDs used. One thing that stands out to me is they are using TIR (total internal reflection, which is a term used for light pipes and clear glass light guides not reflectors) reflectors to gain a "90 degree" angle of radiation. A small light with all the LEDs crammed together in a 22" long space wont spread the light enough and it will concentrate the light in a very small footprint (not 4X4) but the PAR readings may very well be impressive inside of maybe 4 sq feet (not 16 sq feet). Just do a little trig and calculate the angle at 90 degrees and 12" or worse yet 7" (light spread in the 7" direction would be about 21" wide, Light spread in the 22" direction would be about 46" (close to their claim). LEDs radiate in a Lambertian pattern which is actually an advantage (without reflectors!) but the spacing of the LEDs have to be optimized for the footprint desired. That is what I like about the SpyderX, Quantum board and COBs (you can achieve a reasonable light spread by just designing the spacing properly. This little fixture is 22" x 14 x 7. How are you going to get any spread (even) of light in the 22" direction let alone the 7" direction.

I could be wrong here but typical commercial LEDs are about 30-35% more efficient than HID but in searching for current data it is difficult to quantify. I kind of use that as a rule of thumb when someone says how many watts their various brands of fixtures draw but it is a guestimate. So a 250 watt fixture to me (without specific part numbers for the leds so the specs can be seen) is going to give about 355 watts of "equivalent" light.

Dee

lol 860 dollars for that thing? what a rip off.
chiled's starting 200w qb box is only 600. and i bet you its brighter by 150 percent.

chillywilly said:

See the pictures,... results ... I'm new to LEDs but research first then buy... I'm over 30 yrs growing...NM, CO, DC... research first, do diligence, don't waste time... hehe...
cw

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I had a good laugh at the website. From looking at your pics, I will pass. Would need four of them to cover a 4x4 area.

True dat... experiment...

cw

It's not a bulb is Led... results...less $ electric@DGP...yeah...but the quality and nutes...not a lot but enough for me...not commercial grower but commercial equipment...who is selling what here?
cw

It seems like folks got issues, if u ain't got try ...if not ... talk is cheap... results....I worked for the US Air Force optical devision, weapons labs Albuquerque NM...talk...
cw

chillywilly said:

It seems like folks got issues, if u ain't got try ...if not ... talk is cheap... results....I worked for the US Air Force optical devision, weapons labs Albuquerque NM...talk...
cw

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Your light is 250W right?

Mine is 315W

CMH right,...I started early 90's MH only 3200k, still would deal with MH than HPS, quality is up...on resins/oils...
cw

Many have seen me here, I'm about...top end ...many have different opinions on strains and growing...this is one....
cw

And 268 watts from the wall for $ 236 US

Koool man...
cw

chillywilly said:

It seems like folks got issues, if u ain't got try ...if not ... talk is cheap... results....I worked for the US Air Force optical devision, weapons labs Albuquerque NM...talk...
cw

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Not criticizing you or your skills. Just looking at specs and comparing lighting performance. Your light works for you and that is great. I just like to figure what the real deal is on lighting specs. My pet peeve with all the cannabis markets like lighting, nutrients, hydro systems etc. is all the marketing hype. More than any other consumer market has the most BS associated with the products. It creates a lot of confusion for us gardeners and especially F's over the beginner who ends up spending his or her hard earned money on crap.

I was and am a professional in the industry but not selling anything to anyone. However, not interested in a dick wagging contest about my credentials and the discussion I offer up isn't meant to offend. Been asked to build lights for several people that dont like DIY projects but have never done so. The products I like the most for canna culture are companies I have no financial or other interests in.

For example if you were in optics you can do the trigonometry and easily figure out the light spread of your light. Half of 90 degrees is 45 degrees, the tangent of 45 is 1. That means at their 12" off the canopy height (they use 12" for their spec) then the spread off the axis is exactly 12". 12" + 7" +12" =31". Therefore, the light spread across the width of the lamp is about 31" not 48. It might grow plants in a 4x4 but the coverage is less than 31" cause the optics they are using are less bright along the edges based on the lambertIan radiation pattern of LEDS and the laws of Etendue that govern the effectiveness of reflectors not to mention the TIR losses if they really are using TIR.

Sorry if I offended in any way,

Dee

MidwestToker said:

And 268 watts from the wall for $ 236 USView attachment 794394 View attachment 794395

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@MidwestToker,

What are your build details (I assume this was a DIY build)? Just curious what you used. In looking at all the ways to build a nice light whether quantum, COB's or strip LEDs I see the typical build cost coming down. Seems like $1 per watt is about where we are at right now and you hit that number almost exactly. Nice looking light!

Dee

Respect sir...we all want the best right? These peeps did as u did and put their spin as it were...and made it happen...results...pics ... experiment... experience... truth...
Kirtland AFB...USCG...
Peace
cw

DGP said:

@MidwestToker,

What are your build details (I assume this was a DIY build)? Just curious what you used. In looking at all the ways to build a nice light whether quantum, COB's or strip LEDs I see the typical build cost coming down. Seems like $1 per watt is about where we are at right now and you hit that number almost exactly. Nice looking light!

Dee

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That was the cheapo build all 1/16 " aluminum U channel and angle. 1/8" pop riveted together. I had all the wiring already. Just to see how cheap it could be done.
8-Samsung F-series 3,000k strips $120.00
HLG-240H-24B $ 70.00
U-channel and angle $ 30.00
Dimmer Pot $ 6.00
Power Cord $ 7.00
Misc. $ 3.00

The better builds are costing me about $275-280 with heatsinks and wiring complete.

MidwestToker said:

That was the cheapo build all 1/16 " aluminum U channel and angle. 1/8" pop riveted together. I had all the wiring already. Just to see how cheap it could be done.
8-Samsung F-series 3,000k strips $120.00
HLG-240H-24B $ 70.00
U-channel and angle $ 30.00
Dimmer Pot $ 6.00
Power Cord $ 7.00
Misc. $ 3.00

The better builds are costing me about $275-280 with heatsinks and wiring complete.View attachment 794413 View attachment 794414

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So, this is about a 240w fixture according to the specs from digikey but your getting a little bit more out of them. What bloom footprint do you think this configuration is good for?

Thanks,

Dee

DGP said:

So, this is about a 240w fixture according to the specs from digikey but your getting a little bit more out of them. What bloom footprint do you think this configuration is good for?

Thanks,

Dee

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From the looks of it in the 4x4 I'd say it would do a 3x3. I'm using that light to veg those plants for a side by side right now. Six are going in another 4x4 box I have with a 600 HPS and six will go under my current build of 17 strips with 2-240H drivers. I'm just waiting on a few more part to finish it.

chillywilly said:

CMH right,...I started early 90's MH only 3200k, still would deal with MH than HPS, quality is up...on resins/oils...
cw

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Wrong. That's my diy cob fixture.