Genetic mutation or something else?

[Berniemac]

I have these beans from a trusted friend that I popped and since they sprouted I’ve been getting really weird vibes from them. At first I thought nutrient imbalance, pests, watering, but nah phuck that. I’m an experienced grower ish, and I’ve dotted my i’s and crossed my t’s. This is the second time I grow this strain with these interesting leaf colorations. I know for sure it’s not calcium , potassium or magnesium deficiency, it’s not ph problems, or watering or humidity, or lights, the only thing that I can’t test for is fungal infection, but the bud smoked super dank last time I grew it.
I guess my real question, has anyone seen anything like this. I think the pictures don’t do it enough justice… looks like wickedly cool yellowing webbing across the leaves.

 

[FishGuru]

That’s not genetic, those look to be starving of N at the least.

 

[Berniemac]

That’s not genetic, those look to be starving of N at the least.

Brother I have boosted nitrogen, and nothing….

 

[Captspaulding]

That is some raging, magnesium deficiency
And you may be over dosing n depending on how much you’re giving them can you please give me some information on your settings for your rig? What are your temperatures and humidity at? What type of light are you using wattage what height is it above the canopy output Kinda need to know these things but I can tell you without a doubt that your lights are way too close or turned up way too much, and those things are on overdrive, pulling every last bit of magnesium out of the medium

 

[Captspaulding]

The shining sign of your leaves that shouldn’t really be happening. That’s showing me that you are giving just a bit too much nitrogen.
What are you feeding them in terms of nutrition at what percentage and how often? And the fact that your leaf tips are turning upwards are showing me that your lights output is too close and or too hot or both at the same time and veg less is more and if you have things set like this at 30 inches above canopy at least at this point because those plants need to be able to relax a little bit And no more than 40% output on your light at all. You shouldn’t even touch that until you decide to switch into flower, I have never maxed out over 40% in a veg run ever now I run my lights really high too. If you have things dialed in correctly in terms of output relative to proximity to your canopy, you won’t end up with a bunch of crazy stretched out plants.

Pics 1/2 veg room
3/4 flower room

Peep the distance

Just know that any of the damage that has been done and is showing now will not be reversed. You have to monitor new growth to know whether or not you’ve done the right things in order to correct the issue.

 

[Berniemac]

The shining sign of your leaves that shouldn’t really be happening. That’s showing me that you are giving just a bit too much nitrogen.
What are you feeding them in terms of nutrition at what percentage and how often? And the fact that your leaf tips are turning upwards are showing me that your lights output is too close and or too hot or both at the same time and veg less is more and if you have things set like this at 30 inches above canopy at least at this point because those plants need to be able to relax a little bit And no more than 40% output on your light at all. You shouldn’t even touch that until you decide to switch into flower, I have never maxed out over 40% in a veg run ever now I run my lights really high too. If you have things dialed in correctly in terms of output relative to proximity to your canopy, you won’t end up with a bunch of crazy stretched out plants.

Pics 1/2 veg room
3/4 flower room

Peep the distance

Just know that any of the damage that has been done and is showing now will not be reversed. You have to monitor new growth to know whether or not you’ve done the right things in order to correct the issue.

Love your setup, very organized in its own chaotic way! I see you plan out your work and work your plan, very nice , I try to be very efficient myself. I typically use a fox farm trio nutrients once a week sometimes twice a week depending on the week and heat levels. I use to make my own natural fertilizer with eggshells, bananas, and aloe Vera but noticed more consistent results with the fox farm. Humidity is between 55-65 % temperature from 71-86 ish at peak. Water every 3-4 days. About 25-40% I’ve added call mag to these plants specifically . I will say as far as light being to close or hot yes I have neglected raising frequently. Good catch, I have since then raised and the new growth seems to be similar light green at first then changes quickly

 

[Captspaulding]

With the ff trio,
I sure hope you are using 1/2 strength.
And appyi g it every feed.
Ff is a notoriously hot mix and can scorch shit when used at full strength. Causes issues like yours here. Coupled with light config, it gets nutty. Do not flush.
The half dose mixture will eventually balance things out over a few feeds.
I have used every major nutrient under the sun so it comes from experience.
As far as the banana tea,
You shouldnt be into any type of potassium or phosphates yet. That is for flower.
You should only be using grow big atm.
Cal mag is fine. Just know your plants demand for magnesium will go away in flower too,
Keep giving that until a week after you flip.
Bc the severity of the situation here.

 

[Captspaulding]

Love your setup, very organized in its own chaotic way! I see you plan out your work and work your plan, very nice , I try to be very efficient myself. I typically use a fox farm trio nutrients once a week sometimes twice a week depending on the week and heat levels. I use to make my own natural fertilizer with eggshells, bananas, and aloe Vera but noticed more consistent results with the fox farm. Humidity is between 55-65 % temperature from 71-86 ish at peak. Water every 3-4 days. About 25-40% I’ve added call mag to these plants specifically . I will say as far as light being to close or hot yes I have neglected raising frequently. Good catch, I have since then raised and the new growth seems to be similar light green at first then changes quickly

Def 30 inches above then.
I always say, set everything high with lights
And always sytart half dose in nutes
Almost with all of them
Its always easier to give a hungry plant more food and light, way harder to cure a tox and light damage while trying to dial evrything in
Set light high, bc not all plants react the same to the light even if from the sam seed stock, so boosting any plant that wants more light is better than dropping a light on top of every plant even the ones that dont want it .
Make sense?

 

[Berniemac]

With the ff trio,
I sure hope you are using 1/2 strength.
And appyi g it every feed.
Ff is a notoriously hot mix and can scorch shit when used at full strength. Causes issues like yours here. Coupled with light config, it gets nutty. Do not flush.
The half dose mixture will eventually balance things out over a few feeds.
I have used every major nutrient under the sun so it comes from experience.
As far as the banana tea,
You shouldnt be into any type of potassium or phosphates yet. That is for flower.
You should only be using grow big atm.
Cal mag is fine. Just know your plants demand for magnesium will go away in flower too,
Keep giving that until a week after you flip.
Bc the severity of the situation here.

Yes the ff tri I definitely don’t use as strong I’ve noticed the same thing from previous usage and recipe development! As far as my tea I didn’t give good context but i make various types depending on what stage it’s in and what the plant is asking for. But during veg it’s typically a green compost tea with some egg shells every other time and some ash once a month, it works well, for cannabis and other garden delights. But I appreciate the input and the feedback! I see what you mean by putting the light up high but I always noting a thicker denser fuller veg when I have them about 12-18 inches above, right now my led’s are 300 W and I have them at 50 percent, I think this is good but I have raised them a bit to about 24 now . I always thought when the leaves were all downward it meant light too close and when the leaves all face up, lights too far, but idk maybe I’m trippin lol

 

[Captspaulding]

Well when it comes to light and heat stress there are some key markers for both. Some times the leaves will curldownward to hide, or the will pray almost vertical to try to limit the amount of leaf surface for a light to damagaenit anymore. This can fool people from time to time, depending on the amount of water content your plant has inside of it at the time of the light stress happening.
Rh plays a role too. Soil saturattion as well.
Heat stress will generally cause the leaves to do a downwards wilt light stress will generally cause your leaf tips in the very edges of your leaves to start browning eventually start curling upwards towards the light. There’s a bunch of different indicators that can actually fool you in the thinking that it’s something else entirely, nute burn ect. It’s always better to start with your light output settings down as low as you can soon as they hit veg, start around 15% don’t go higher than 40% in veg. If you can help it, I would set your lights always at 30 inches to start. You can always boost to a light with a plant that wants it as opposed to having to close down low stressing other plants possibly. boosting is best imo. That way you arent fiddling with light height. causing a stress and then having to dial it in from there while trying to nurse it along at the same time It’s kind of like I’m stepping on your own foot and way less is more while you incrementally creeping towards the light output percentage that your plant wants as well as the nutrient frequency that you feed it

 

[Berniemac]

Well when it comes to light and heat stress there are some key markers for both. Some times the leaves will curldownward to hide, or the will pray almost vertical to try to limit the amount of leaf surface for a light to damagaenit anymore. This can fool people from time to time, depending on the amount of water content your plant has inside of it at the time of the light stress happening.
Rh plays a role too. Soil saturattion as well.
Heat stress will generally cause the leaves to do a downwards wilt light stress will generally cause your leaf tips in the very edges of your leaves to start browning eventually start curling upwards towards the light. There’s a bunch of different indicators that can actually fool you in the thinking that it’s something else entirely, nute burn ect. It’s always better to start with your light output settings down as low as you can soon as they hit veg, start around 15% don’t go higher than 40% in veg. If you can help it, I would set your lights always at 30 inches to start. You can always boost to a light with a plant that wants it as opposed to having to close down low stressing other plants possibly. boosting is best imo. That way you arent fiddling with light height. causing a stress and then having to dial it in from there while trying to nurse it along at the same time It’s kind of like I’m stepping on your own foot and way less is more while you incrementally creeping towards the light output percentage that your plant wants as well as the nutrient frequency that you feed it

That makes total sense, I like your thought process! Totally gonna try that from now on, I can see how different stresses can show different signs! That’s one thing I’m noticing more and more as hardy as the plant is, for maximum efficiency, performance, and yield, ideally the best water/nutrient/light ratio is important at different stages, what a time to be alive in the great age of information! Dont have to wait around years of R&D and iterations. Luckily people like yourself spread great knowledge, keep it up Cap!

 

[dotexe]

The shining sign of your leaves that shouldn’t really be happening. That’s showing me that you are giving just a bit too much nitrogen.
What are you feeding them in terms of nutrition at what percentage and how often? And the fact that your leaf tips are turning upwards are showing me that your lights output is too close and or too hot or both at the same time and veg less is more and if you have things set like this at 30 inches above canopy at least at this point because those plants need to be able to relax a little bit And no more than 40% output on your light at all. You shouldn’t even touch that until you decide to switch into flower, I have never maxed out over 40% in a veg run ever now I run my lights really high too. If you have things dialed in correctly in terms of output relative to proximity to your canopy, you won’t end up with a bunch of crazy stretched out plants.

Pics 1/2 veg room
3/4 flower room

Peep the distance

Just know that any of the damage that has been done and is showing now will not be reversed. You have to monitor new growth to know whether or not you’ve done the right things in order to correct the issue.

Not to derail this thread, but just wanted to let you know you have a gnarly setup! Badass.

 

[Captspaulding]

That makes total sense, I like your thought process! Totally gonna try that from now on, I can see how different stresses can show different signs! That’s one thing I’m noticing more and more as hardy as the plant is, for maximum efficiency, performance, and yield, ideally the best water/nutrient/light ratio is important at different stages, what a time to be alive in the great age of information! Dont have to wait around years of R&D and iterations. Luckily people like yourself spread great knowledge, keep it up Cap!

I abide’ thx!
if you keep running in issues or are you just like another step in the process to try and you know get these things back on track feel more than welcome man.
I love to help.
24 inches is good though, but I really think you should set it up to 30 and the only reason I’m saying that is is that the plants are really really stressed right now and plants have a tendency to bounce back quicker when there’s less of whatever it was that damaged them in the first place for at least 10 to 14 days from my experience in order to maintain and ensure a healthy plant when you switch to flower, which is another very stressful point in the plants life, you don’t want to compound these issues and possibly cause the plant to go into self preservation mode and start to show hermaphroditic tendencies
With where your plants are right now it’s not gonna make them stretch crazy high and mess up your plans for your leaf set spacing as long as you just keep an eye on things and it starts to do that. OK just boost one of the plants closer to the light and it will slow that I’m a bleeding heart for plants that are stressing so you don’t have to take my word for it. I’m not trying to tell you what to do. I’m just saying that they bounce back quicker with less of what kicked them in tits for a deceny amount of time, this can translate to a longer veg. But there’s no rule in the book that says you have to flip it day 30 me and some of the other staff members here will veg for hell 4 to 6 months sometimes depending on how many plants were running, etc.
And the 10 to 14 day period of time for healing and reinvigoration is something that I kind of got to over many years of redundant anecdotal data harvesting that I’ve done and from that that I was able to take away that that seems to be the best amount of time to allow for a proper heel before you think about flipping to flower to ensure no sexual anomalies in your plant

 

[Captspaulding]

Not to derail this thread, but just wanted to let you know you have a gnarly setup! Badass.

Thanks man!
I change it all the time. I never really run the same way twice just to break up the monotony. I’ll eventually get back around to the same exact style, but I do all types of crazy shit man. Mainly run sog but i really try to ise every inch of space.
Solo cup runs,
1 g runs
Reuse soil (while not reusing if a virus pops up, hlvd, tmv ect)
And wacky over under shelving setups
Basically more with less and have as mych fun as possible.

 

[Berniemac]

I abide’ thx!
if you keep running in issues or are you just like another step in the process to try and you know get these things back on track feel more than welcome man.
I love to help.
24 inches is good though, but I really think you should set it up to 30 and the only reason I’m saying that is is that the plants are really really stressed right now and plants have a tendency to bounce back quicker when there’s less of whatever it was that damaged them in the first place for at least 10 to 14 days from my experience in order to maintain and ensure a healthy plant when you switch to flower, which is another very stressful point in the plants life, you don’t want to compound these issues and possibly cause the plant to go into self preservation mode and start to show hermaphroditic tendencies
With where your plants are right now it’s not gonna make them stretch crazy high and mess up your plans for your leaf set spacing as long as you just keep an eye on things and it starts to do that. OK just boost one of the plants closer to the light and it will slow that I’m a bleeding heart for plants that are stressing so you don’t have to take my word for it. I’m not trying to tell you what to do. I’m just saying that they bounce back quicker with less of what kicked them in tits for a deceny amount of time, this can translate to a longer veg. But there’s no rule in the book that says you have to flip it day 30 me and some of the other staff members here will veg for hell 4 to 6 months sometimes depending on how many plants were running, etc.
And the 10 to 14 day period of time for healing and reinvigoration is something that I kind of got to over many years of redundant anecdotal data harvesting that I’ve done and from that that I was able to take away that that seems to be the best amount of time to allow for a proper heel before you think about flipping to flower to ensure no sexual anomalies in your plant

I ended up moving them up to roughly 30 inches! I can see you definitely have more experience than me, and I am very open to trying out smart peoples experience! Especially when someone like yourself takes the time to chop it up with me and you are clear and consice with reasoning and logic! I appreciate it 100%!! And sameeee man! I’ve never been one to follow a strict schedule of when to flip, I’ve topped in the past and I know it slows growth a bit so sometimes I’ll wait till they get the perfect height for my setup. This iteration right now I’m actually trying an experiment to see roughly what’s the best option in terms of growth to seed ratio.
I’m flipping some in 2 weeks, I’m flipping a bed a month after that, and one more a month after that to see if a plant can still produce a fairly decent amount of seeds with successful pollination of course in a small amount of time, or this will be a good way to see some different things for my own understanding. I will also say I implemented an irrigation system in the grow room a few weeks ago, and TBFH I don’t like it lololololol. Not consistent enough for me, or maybe I’m just not doing it right . But nothing like personally getting every plant, especially cause I can tweak the feeding more precise depending on what the plants need. But after yesterday. No more irrigation for now, I know I can get them back to beautiful veg and lush leaves in a week or two! Thanks for the help Capt.

 

[Captspaulding]

I ended up moving them up to roughly 30 inches! I can see you definitely have more experience than me, and I am very open to trying out smart peoples experience! Especially when someone like yourself takes the time to chop it up with me and you are clear and consice with reasoning and logic! I appreciate it 100%!! And sameeee man! I’ve never been one to follow a strict schedule of when to flip, I’ve topped in the past and I know it slows growth a bit so sometimes I’ll wait till they get the perfect height for my setup. This iteration right now I’m actually trying an experiment to see roughly what’s the best option in terms of growth to seed ratio.
I’m flipping some in 2 weeks, I’m flipping a bed a month after that, and one more a month after that to see if a plant can still produce a fairly decent amount of seeds with successful pollination of course in a small amount of time, or this will be a good way to see some different things for my own understanding. I will also say I implemented an irrigation system in the grow room a few weeks ago, and TBFH I don’t like it lololololol. Not consistent enough for me, or maybe I’m just not doing it right . But nothing like personally getting every plant, especially cause I can tweak the feeding more precise depending on what the plants need. But after yesterday. No more irrigation for now, I know I can get them back to beautiful veg and lush leaves in a week or two! Thanks for the help Capt.

Yeah Tans use any type of a drip system or anything like that or a self feeder unless I have to go out of town or something and I know for a fact that it’s dialed in for the size of pot I’m using but generally man they’re not the worst it’s just that myself. I prefer to have a decent wet dry cycle here it doesn’t matter whether or not it’s a 3,5 or 7 gallon. It’s four days with all of those no matter what so it gets to be pretty nice to just feed every four days and walk away feed every four days and walk away The way I have things set up in my area pretty much just rolls right on through with decent airflow, temperatures, and humidity when I have it set up exactly that way I’m constantly switching shit up though to keep things interesting from time to time, buddy. I don’t mind helping at all when I’m here for you can hit me up Anytime Breeding is a lot of fun as long as you can keep it clean and not cross contaminate anything that you’re not trying to make or spawn hermaphrodites when you don’t know, they’re around type of deals you know can be tricky from time to time, but they can’t all bezingers

 

[Captspaulding]

I like to go ahead and try to pollinate my female plant as soon as possible. I mean at the moment the pistols show up I’ll just go ahead and start dusting the shit out of them and you know as they grow more pistols they’ll definitely be some pollen left over on the pistols that you got at early so it’ll self pollinating that way With stuff that’s been left over on it and as long as you allow for a solid five weeks for your seeds to grow they should be mature with nice hard shells and a decent size

 

[Berniemac]

I like to go ahead and try to pollinate my female plant as soon as possible. I mean at the moment the pistols show up I’ll just go ahead and start dusting the shit out of them and you know as they grow more pistols they’ll definitely be some pollen left over on the pistols that you got at early so it’ll self pollinating that way With stuff that’s been left over on it and as long as you allow for a solid five weeks for your seeds to grow they should be mature with nice hard shells and a decent size

Ahh there goes that good experience again, makes perfect sense, I usually wait 3-4 weeks after flipping to let them build up decent pistils for larger spread and potentially more successful pollination. But I like this idea as well, I do notice pollen tends to stay a lot longer indoors in a controlled environment, when I do pollinate I turn off the fans for a week and let the pollen settle in. But I definitely like what you mean, by pollinating quicker, you have quicker seed maturity, MAKES SENSE! Haha preciate it brother