Growing Landrace Sativas In Dwc/hydro?

Kaskadian · Oct 5, 2017

Hi all,

I have a few funky strains that I'm going to be running soon. I've run a few long running strains before (13-14 weeks). The strains I'll be running are as follows:

Green Haze (16-20 weeks)
Mangobiche (16-24 weeks)
Purple Haze x Honduras (Unknown flowering time I'm guessing 13-15 weeks?)

I know landraces in general don't respond well to feedings (especially nitrogen), and tend to be finicky in general. I've always ran sativa doms in relatively hot soil and barely fed them @1/4-1/2 strength doses.

I wanted to take cuttings, root them, and run them in a DWC SCROG setup for shits and giggles. Just a fun project, not a serious grow. I imagine PH would have to be dialed in perfectly, and I was planning on running 1/4 strength nutrients.

Anyone with landrace experience in a hydro setup?

Cheers all,

Kas

Irish063 · Oct 6, 2017

Sorry man, no experience but I'm interested to see where this goes. I'm thinking of running a couple landraces next spring.

Kaskadian · Oct 6, 2017

Irish063 said:
Sorry man, no experience but I'm interested to see where this goes. I'm thinking of running a couple landraces next spring.

Landraces are definitely a lot of fun to grow despite the difficulties that come with them. I'm setting up a few tents in a different room to play with them. Might just have to veg them out and wing it.

I hope you'll do a grow log if/when you get started!

Cheers!

Irish063 · Oct 6, 2017

Kaskadian said:
Landraces are definitely a lot of fun to grow despite the difficulties that come with them. I'm setting up a few tents in a different room to play with them. Might just have to veg them out and wing it.

I hope you'll do a grow log if/when you get started!

Cheers!

Good idea to have them in a different room. I was thinking about doing a indoor winter grow. Might have to do the same with one instead of waiting. I'd like to see if the properties might help my wife.
From the little reading I have done I didn't realize they could be so finicky.
For sure. Doing a grow log this year was really helpful. A couple more weeks and they should be ready.

Kaskadian · Oct 7, 2017

Irish063 said:
Good idea to have them in a different room. I was thinking about doing a indoor winter grow. Might have to do the same with one instead of waiting. I'd like to see if the properties might help my wife.
From the little reading I have done I didn't realize they could be so finicky.
For sure. Doing a grow log this year was really helpful. A couple more weeks and they should be ready.

Can't wait to see! I know some landrace growers don't feed certain strains at all for the entire grow... it's crazy stuff. Assuming you have lots of root space and nutrient rich soil they just let the plant grow and use up the nutrients gradually.

I'm cleaning out a room now to run these sativas. I think I'll be started in the next 2 weeks. I'm going to start these sativas in happy frog soil (3 gal pots), and take + root cuttings and play with those cuttings in a DWC hydro setup. I have a feeling hydro is going to be a bitch with as finicky as these strains are. I guess that's 1/2 the fun of growing though. I'm going to feed at 1:4 dose and keep the PPMs low in hydro. I think the key is going to be keeping that PH dialed in, and keep the nutrients steady at a low dose.

I'll post up a grow log for shits and giggles once it gets going. I'll prob end up tossing a few cuttings in soil into the flower room too. I'd like to see a side by side hydro vs soil on these landraces. When looking at 20+ weeks there are a lot of variables to consider in hydro that are lesser issues in soil (PH can be a bit more flexible, feeding, etc).

My main concern indoors with these landraces is really the stretch in hydro. These landraces perform best with limited rootspace indoors because it can somewhat limit the stretch. In a DWC setup they have essentially unlimited rootspace. I wouldn't be surprised to see 12" cuttings hit 5' by the end. I think I'll end up trying to scrog them to control the height.

Cheers!

Irish063 · Oct 7, 2017

Kaskadian said:
Can't wait to see! I know some landrace growers don't feed certain strains at all for the entire grow... it's crazy stuff. Assuming you have lots of root space and nutrient rich soil they just let the plant grow and use up the nutrients gradually.

I'm cleaning out a room now to run these sativas. I think I'll be started in the next 2 weeks. I'm going to start these sativas in happy frog soil (3 gal pots), and take + root cuttings and play with those cuttings in a DWC hydro setup. I have a feeling hydro is going to be a bitch with as finicky as these strains are. I guess that's 1/2 the fun of growing though. I'm going to feed at 1:4 dose and keep the PPMs low in hydro. I think the key is going to be keeping that PH dialed in, and keep the nutrients steady at a low dose.

I'll post up a grow log for shits and giggles once it gets going. I'll prob end up tossing a few cuttings in soil into the flower room too. I'd like to see a side by side hydro vs soil on these landraces. When looking at 20+ weeks there are a lot of variables to consider in hydro that are lesser issues in soil (PH can be a bit more flexible, feeding, etc).

My main concern indoors with these landraces is really the stretch in hydro. These landraces perform best with limited rootspace indoors because it can somewhat limit the stretch. In a DWC setup they have essentially unlimited rootspace. I wouldn't be surprised to see 12" cuttings hit 5' by the end. I think I'll end up trying to scrog them to control the height.

Cheers!

That will be really cool to see the side by side of hydro vs soil.
Yeah, I bet controlling the pH will be the most important. You just don't have that buffering capacity like you do with soil. I'm sure even a tiny fluctuation would stress them.

Is there any buffering solution you could add to the resivoir so it would be a little easier to keep it easier for you?

I hadn't thought about the basically endless capacity for the roots to grow in hydro. I bet they will easily be 5 feet by the time they are done. Scrogging will be a must, it sounds like, and even then I'm sure you'll end up with some crazy growth to deal with.
20+ weeks just blows my mind for flowering time. Can't imagine. I wonder how I could manage that outdoors. We are already getting freezing temps here. Everything switched over about the beginning of august.

Best of luck man. I'll be watching the action.

Cheers

Kaskadian · Oct 8, 2017

Irish063 said:
That will be really cool to see the side by side of hydro vs soil.
Yeah, I bet controlling the pH will be the most important. You just don't have that buffering capacity like you do with soil. I'm sure even a tiny fluctuation would stress them.

Is there any buffering solution you could add to the resivoir so it would be a little easier to keep it easier for you?

I hadn't thought about the basically endless capacity for the roots to grow in hydro. I bet they will easily be 5 feet by the time they are done. Scrogging will be a must, it sounds like, and even then I'm sure you'll end up with some crazy growth to deal with.
20+ weeks just blows my mind for flowering time. Can't imagine. I wonder how I could manage that outdoors. We are already getting freezing temps here. Everything switched over about the beginning of august.

Best of luck man. I'll be watching the action.

Cheers

I'm not aware of any kind of reliable PH buffer that would work effectively. I'm thinking I'll have to be in there checking the PH a couple times a day. I'm thinking about setting up a second reservoir so I can just transfer over the top of the DWC into PH checked water that I've already dialed in.

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill brother but you can't grow these strains outdoors unless you live very far south or somewhere near the equator. They'll never finish. Natural lighting cycles will never be quite right to allow these strains to finish. I suppose you could do some kind of light dep setup, but you'd be covering monster plants, and temps would be a huge issue come winter. I'm in the same boat, I live in the PNW and have to run these strains indoors to get them to finish.

I'm thinking there are only two real options for me to run these in my space. The first being throwing rooted clones under flower (11/13 or 10/14) immediately and try to LST them to control the stretch. The second option which I'll most likely go with is SCROG. I might end up setting up two screens at different heights and try to control these monsters. Max height in my setup in 6.5' and I still have to get my lights in there, and all that other good stuff. My actual growing height is closer to 5' when you factor in containers, lighting, fans, etc.

Cleaning up the grow room now, I'll most likely start a thread once I pop these beans. It'll be a long work in progress since I'll be vegging these out prior to starting flower. I'd start them in he DWC if I was confident enough that they wouldn't freak out and die. Having plants to take cuttings from at least leaves me with room to recover if that happens.

Cheers!

Irish063 · Oct 8, 2017

Kaskadian said:
I'm not aware of any kind of reliable PH buffer that would work effectively. I'm thinking I'll have to be in there checking the PH a couple times a day. I'm thinking about setting up a second reservoir so I can just transfer over the top of the DWC into PH checked water that I've already dialed in.

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill brother but you can't grow these strains outdoors unless you live very far south or somewhere near the equator. They'll never finish. Natural lighting cycles will never be quite right to allow these strains to finish. I suppose you could do some kind of light dep setup, but you'd be covering monster plants, and temps would be a huge issue come winter. I'm in the same boat, I live in the PNW and have to run these strains indoors to get them to finish.

I'm thinking there are only two real options for me to run these in my space. The first being throwing rooted clones under flower (11/13 or 10/14) immediately and try to LST them to control the stretch. The second option which I'll most likely go with is SCROG. I might end up setting up two screens at different heights and try to control these monsters. Max height in my setup in 6.5' and I still have to get my lights in there, and all that other good stuff. My actual growing height is closer to 5' when you factor in containers, lighting, fans, etc.

Cleaning up the grow room now, I'll most likely start a thread once I pop these beans. It'll be a long work in progress since I'll be vegging these out prior to starting flower. I'd start them in he DWC if I was confident enough that they wouldn't freak out and die. Having plants to take cuttings from at least leaves me with room to recover if that happens.

Cheers!

Bummer. It'd be great if there was something to help you keep the pH stable. Great idea though about having the second res. That will probably make it much more manageable.

Not all man. I'm glad you had mentioned the flowering times. I hadn't really thought about the logistics of it. We definitely only have 3 months of summer here. Not like when I was in Dallas and you only had two seasons- Summer and Fall-ish winter. Yeah I don't see myself being able to work the light dep house style. I barely get enough time to open the greenhouse in the morning to let fresh air in let alone tackling a shade. I had thought about starting them inside, switching to flowering quickly, and then finishing them outside. However, we don't hit a 12/12 light cycle until late September here and then trying to harden them off just wouldn't be feasible with something I'm sure would be 3-4 feet tall.

Having the mothers in a soil setup is a great idea. Like you said, at least that way if something happens and you can't recover them you will have something to work with.

Sounds like a tent setup will be my route as well.

Sweet I look forward to watching the grow diary. Tag me in it if you would so I don't forget to look for it. Thanks man. Best of luck.

Cheers

StandingRock · Oct 20, 2017

I'm following this! I've always wanted to try this. How's the smoke on those landraces anyway?

jumpincactus · Oct 21, 2017

Kaskadian said:
Hi all,

I have a few funky strains that I'm going to be running soon. I've run a few long running strains before (13-14 weeks). The strains I'll be running are as follows:

Green Haze (16-20 weeks)
Mangobiche (16-24 weeks)
Purple Haze x Honduras (Unknown flowering time I'm guessing 13-15 weeks?)

I know landraces in general don't respond well to feedings (especially nitrogen), and tend to be finicky in general. I've always ran sativa doms in relatively hot soil and barely fed them @1/4-1/2 strength doses.

I wanted to take cuttings, root them, and run them in a DWC SCROG setup for shits and giggles. Just a fun project, not a serious grow. I imagine PH would have to be dialed in perfectly, and I was planning on running 1/4 strength nutrients.

Anyone with landrace experience in a hydro setup?

Cheers all,

Kas

How much space do you have? Not head space but floor footage? Reason I ask for floor footages and not head space is because I am going to suggest that you go with a scrog. Landrace sativas of the haze varieties will quickly outgrow limited headroom. They are a tough go even with a scrog as a long flowering haze will quickly fill a scrog screen. Would suggest you only veg for 4-5 nodes and them flip them. Just 1 haze plant can fill a 5 x 5 scrog with the quickness. Keep tucking even after flower as with a 4 month flower period you will find shit out of control. You can tuck well into flower as long as you dont stress the plant too much. Be sure your screen has 3x3 or 4x4" openings to allow for bending colas and fitting them thru the openings. Or you can use pipe cleaners to tie them down to keep the growth horizontal. The hardest part is determine when to let the grow tips go vertical due to calculating if you will run out of headroom. If headroom isnt an issue you should be all set.

Landrace sativas are an exercise in patience and scrogging them is a lot of work. But if you have the time and inclination you will be rewarded with some nice smoke ..........

You made a good point on the nute thing as sativas especially dont like a lot of ferts. Go easy as too much will cause it to hermie on you.( in addition be extra vigilant with that green haze, the thai background is prone to be hermaphroditic by nature) I would suggest starting at only a 1/4 of what your labels say for a few weeks. This is also due to the dwc method is very efficient and supplies a lot of DO so a ton of nutes isnt necessary. You can always up the mix should they start to show deficiencies.

Be sure as the flower period drags on to keep your area under the scrog net cleared of lower growth and keep a fan or 2 blowing air thru the underside for maximum circulation. Good to see someone else that has the patience to grow a long flowering strain. I will be close by eating canna butter pop corn filling the chillum and getting older watching your run. :D We can become Rip van wrinkles waiting for harvest on this run. LOL

Good luck and grow karma on your run. If you get stuck or need any help pm me and I'll be glad to lend a hand. Peace out

Kaskadian · Oct 21, 2017

StandingRock said:
I'm following this! I've always wanted to try this. How's the smoke on those landraces anyway?

I've got babies ripping through the soil now! I'll make a thread soon.

The landrace sativas that I've played with/smoked in the past were always energetic/racey, very clear (no mental fog), and more than a few were creepers when smoked. I've never experienced anything even remotely close to couchlock/body high, or mental fog when smoking these old world beasts.

Green Haze has been described by fellow landrace growers as "smokeable caffeine". A beautiful description came from another landrace grower on another forum. I'll quote that post here (THIS IS NOT MY POST -- Respect to the original poster)

This was originally posted by a friend (Terpene) on another forum regarding the landrace strain Zamaldelica (bred by Ace Seeds).

"First two hours were INTENSE, scary to the point anyone who wasn't a seasoned smoker would not want to be high anymore. I was definitely at the point of "terror-iffic." If I let anyone else try this, there would definitely be a disclaimer moment before allowing them to proceed. Your head buzzes, but with extreme clarity. Your body feels like its nerves are electric and your skin is somehow an insulator with bones as a wire frame.

The "energy" comes in waves of terrifying, I felt like I was surfing inside of a large tube wave - "shooting the curl" or something. It's really up and positive though, so you think you can try and maintain conversation. As my friends and I were talking, I was at least a sentence behind the conversation while I imagined the words visually - almost hallucinatory?

After the scary ended about 2-3 hours after smoking, it settled into a super talky, up, clear and stupid thai high which lasted in a petering off fashion till I went to sleep."

Landrace strains are the only strains that have ever thrown me into a full blown panic attack. Sometimes the creeper aspect makes it so I end up smoking way more than I should have. Very unique strains, and I think they're a hell of a lot of fun to play with.

Cheers guys,

Kas

Kaskadian · Oct 21, 2017

jumpincactus said:
How much space do you have? Not head space but floor footage? Reason I ask for floor footages and not head space is because I am going to suggest that you go with a scrog. Landrace sativas of the haze varieties will quickly outgrow limited headroom. They are a tough go even with a scrog as a long flowering haze will quickly fill a scrog screen. Would suggest you only veg for 4-5 nodes and them flip them. Just 1 haze plant can fill a 5 x 5 scrog with the quickness. Keep tucking even after flower as with a 4 month flower period you will find shit out of control. You can tuck well into flower as long as you dont stress the plant too much. Be sure your screen has 3x3 or 4x4" openings to allow for bending colas and fitting them thru the openings. Or you can use pipe cleaners to tie them down to keep the growth horizontal. The hardest part is determine when to let the grow tips go vertical due to calculating if you will run out of headroom. If headroom isnt an issue you should be all set.

Landrace sativas are an exercise in patience and scrogging them is a lot of work. But if you have the time and inclination you will be rewarded with some nice smoke ..........

You made a good point on the nute thing as sativas especially dont like a lot of ferts. Go easy as too much will cause it to hermie on you.( in addition be extra vigilant with that green haze, the thai background is prone to be hermaphroditic by nature) I would suggest starting at only a 1/4 of what your labels say for a few weeks. This is also due to the dwc method is very efficient and supplies a lot of DO so a ton of nutes isnt necessary. You can always up the mix should they start to show deficiencies.

Be sure as the flower period drags on to keep your area under the scrog net cleared of lower growth and keep a fan or 2 blowing air thru the underside for maximum circulation. Good to see someone else that has the patience to grow a long flowering strain. I will be close by eating canna butter pop corn filling the chillum and getting older watching your run. :D We can become Rip van wrinkles waiting for harvest on this run. LOL

Good luck and grow karma on your run. If you get stuck or need any help pm me and I'll be glad to lend a hand. Peace out

Thank you so much for all the fantastic feedback!

To answer your questions, since this is just a "for fun" grow, I'm using (2) 4'x4' grow tents. If needed I can move the vegging plants back into my main rooms, and use these two tents for SCROG/SOG. In terms of headspace, I have about 6' of height to play with at an absolute maximum. I wouldn't want to flip these girls if they were larger than 10-12", landraces get SCARY stretchy after flip. I'm planning on vegging everything out and rooting cuts and playing with those.

Nutrients are going to be the hardest aspect to deal with, especially if I'm running a few in a hydro setup. This is why I'm opting to use cuttings so if I accidentally kill some cuts in DWC I can restart without wasting seeds.

I sure hope you stick by and watch and offer advice as this progresses! The more the merrier brother! I should have a new thread up today.

Cheers all,

Kas

Kaskadian · Oct 21, 2017

Thread is up fellas!

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/kaskadians-landrace-adventure.92351/

jumpincactus · Oct 22, 2017

Kaskadian said:
Thread is up fellas!

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/kaskadians-landrace-adventure.92351/

On my way.... subbed for sure

Growing Landrace Sativas In Dwc/hydro?

Growing Landrace Sativas In Dwc/hydro?

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Irish063

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Growing Landrace Sativas In Dwc/hydro?

Growing Landrace Sativas In Dwc/hydro?

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Irish063

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