Hello, quest to grow with no inputs

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Glomus

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YesterdaysHero73 said:
Thank you for the information
It's just this is exactly what I do not want to do. Soil test won't be done until I can afford some micro eyes! Which I'm very excited for.


So just to be clear 100% closed loop natural. :)

I'm looking for advice in this department. Tanks!
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What does your compost consist of? like what kind of plant material and type of plant mass in particular? Also do you have any live stock or manure you are planning to use? Are you planing on using your own human manure since your going native lol?
 
Bobcat.Branch

Bobcat.Branch

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YesterdaysHero73 said:
You didn't have to come by to be mean man, just move on to the next thing if this ain't your thing
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Screenshot 20250425 061529 Gallery


The tone was set in the very beginning...

Im on my second season (starting april), I want to grow all natural with only inputs bright water. I'm not dumb so please, I do not need any bragarts hating.
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Some just go looking for it, I guess. 🤔
 
Newty

Newty

15% Off Fast Buds Orders, Code: NEWTY42
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Idk if I understand "no input" growing.

What I'm thinking is you want to grow with all organic material, no synthetic or salt based nutrients?
You want to be able to plant your crop and not have to worry about adding anything throughout the grow but water?

If that's the case then you want to add products that are OMRI, NOP, or ROC certified.
These are certifications given to organic medium and other ammendment.
 
YesterdaysHero73

YesterdaysHero73

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Newty said:
Idk if I understand "no input" growing.

What I'm thinking is you want to grow with all organic material, no synthetic or salt based nutrients?
You want to be able to plant your crop and not have to worry about adding anything throughout the grow but water?

If that's the case then you want to add products that are OMRI, NOP, or ROC certified.
These are certifications given to organic medium and other ammendment.
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Appreciate your "input" lol

Yes I'm growing in natural soil, 2" of my own closed loop copost mixed in. That's it. No inputs other then creek water:)
 
ATLien415

ATLien415

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You still have inputs, there is no such thing as 'no input' farming. Inputs always drive a system, Archimedean principle and what not. Like the creek water is a source of a plethora of inputs. Your compost as well. Potentially even your seedstock, might have endophytes present and be another input.

I see what you're going for though and the terminology would be 'closed-loop- or regenerative'. Would recommend to throw some alphalpha in as a companion crop for triacontanol . Long-term living soil is a different beast all together. When your scope is keeping a bed on point for 5, 10, 15 years means hitting up soil analysis bros. The timelines for companion crops to break down to pieces that matter is multiple cycles. You'd have to ask a soil pro but I imagine you're planning 5+ cycles away when you plant a companion crop today. Often, keeping beds for that amount of time requires synthetic amendments at times (at least according to the KiS guys and his PHD/academic network of scientists who specialize in soil).

Also, ferments are the cutting edge in regenerative cannabis cultivation. Save every molecule of plant matter and ferment it. Basically the humic/fulvic principles taken to the next level. Sounds like you are already doing this in the form of your closed loop mulch/fertilizer input.
 
YesterdaysHero73

YesterdaysHero73

37
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ATLien415 said:
You still have inputs, there is no such thing as 'no input' farming. Inputs always drive a system, Archimedean principle and what not. Like the creek water is a source of a plethora of inputs. Your compost as well. Potentially even your seedstock, might have endophytes present and be another input.

I see what you're going for though and the terminology would be 'closed-loop- or regenerative'. Would recommend to throw some alphalpha in as a companion crop for triacontanol . Long-term living soil is a different beast all together. When your scope is keeping a bed on point for 5, 10, 15 years means hitting up soil analysis bros. The timelines for companion crops to break down to pieces that matter is multiple cycles. You'd have to ask a soil pro but I imagine you're planning 5+ cycles away when you plant a companion crop today. Often, keeping beds for that amount of time requires synthetic amendments at times (at least according to the KiS guys and his PHD/academic network of scientists who specialize in soil).

Also, ferments are the cutting edge in regenerative cannabis cultivation. Save every molecule of plant matter and ferment it. Basically the humic/fulvic principles taken to the next level. Sounds like you are already doing this in the form of your closed loop mulch/fertilizer input.
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I appreciate your advice!

I do have something to offer you for that tho. What if there were no humans? Would plants grow? In my opinion yes!

So cycles, yes companions do not create compostable material for at least 1 season--- except roots, roots will begin as soon as the plant is terminated however, brassica, legume, and most prairie grass covers will fix nitrogen. A diverse, as possible, mix of covers will expand the nutes beyond N. I have looked into the Koreans method of fermenting, it does not interest me.

!st time with a divers companion mix, and I sowed green so I'm very excited!

thanks again for your advice :)
 
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ATLien415

ATLien415

48
18
YesterdaysHero73 said:
I appreciate your advice!

I do have something to offer you for that tho. What if there were no humans? Would plants grow? In my opinion yes!

So cycles, yes companions do not create compostable material for at least 1 season--- except roots, roots will begin as soon as the plant is terminated however, brassica, legume, and most prairie grass covers will fix nitrogen. A diverse, as possible, mix of covers will expand the nutes beyond N. I have looked into the Koreans method of fermenting, it does not interest me.

!st time with a divers companion mix, and I sowed green so I'm very excited!

thanks again for your advice :)
Click to expand...
Astute point, I agree. The plants would certainly grow if we vanished. They would flourish. The only thing is that they would grow and flourish in a much different way than we use the plant. You would see re-naturalizing occur, the vast majority of cultivars go extinct, the prioritization of lanky growth and low-moisture pollen and intersex sites and more. It would basically be everything we love about the plant but in reverse. The plant as we know it is by definition intertwined with it's stewardship and alterations by humans.

My point is that doing a living soil web can be really tricky at scale. Organic apple farms have largely succumbed to using non-organic foliar sprays (practically required to be profitable in the industry). Depending on your crop, running a 1200 or 280000 acre site might mean that you're regularly applying rock for phosphorous - that is a slow process. Unless you started before we started farming, you're likely going to need a one or two time synthetic application. Water sources may entirely preclude certain micros based on water metrics, requiring intervention with presumed synthetics or remediating the water source. Potassium is another that is driven hard in some crops and can be tricky to give back at scale. The entire point of going closed-loop is to be able to scale, right? If it isn't scalable then it is pointless for the end goal of being better stewards for our planet.

I make the argument that the majority of micros (unless you're doing something truly closed loop like mostly using self-derived-ferments or farm animal compost for inputs) should be synthetic for folks. Bo, Mo, Co and such are tricky for organic inputs! Basically all micros are tricky unless you have a living animal's feces (after feeding it a plethora of inputs) or synthetics or centuries to wait. I think this is one of the arguments for ferments. I know the folks at Grease have shown some truly wild stuff with the humic/fulvics. Basically, if you give the plant a partially formed terpene or flavorant or cannabinoid or a derivative product, the plant is able to discern this and will take the path of least energy to form it's own (aka takes the building blocks up). Between that and the entire fact that many of the humic/fulvics can actually be home to microbial life as well, ferments are definitely the future (no matter what name or method they end up being associated with).

Another really good point that I never really thought of. Being how easy free salt transport is across root tissue, the reverse is also going to be true when it comes to decomposition. Mind gears are moving. :D I love what you're doing. Can't wait for the pics.
 
RoadKillSkunkHunt

RoadKillSkunkHunt

419
93
YesterdaysHero73 said:
Appreciate your "input" lol

Yes I'm growing in natural soil, 2" of my own closed loop copost mixed in. That's it. No inputs other then creek water:)
Click to expand...
Have you checked your own "special compost" mix to see if its at the correct pH for soil grows? This is probably the most overlooked area of home made mixes. The grower doesn't check and assumes that the mix is automatically of the correct pH. Before you get too far in, either check it yourself with a soil pH probe or take a sample to your local Agriculture office and have the soil tested.

If it's already where it should be, you have that peace of mind. If not, you will have more options for adjusting the pH without plants in it yet.
 
YesterdaysHero73

YesterdaysHero73

37
18
ATLien415 said:
Astute point, I agree. The plants would certainly grow if we vanished. They would flourish. The only thing is that they would grow and flourish in a much different way than we use the plant. You would see re-naturalizing occur, the vast majority of cultivars go extinct, the prioritization of lanky growth and low-moisture pollen and intersex sites and more. It would basically be everything we love about the plant but in reverse. The plant as we know it is by definition intertwined with it's stewardship and alterations by humans.

My point is that doing a living soil web can be really tricky at scale. Organic apple farms have largely succumbed to using non-organic foliar sprays (practically required to be profitable in the industry). Depending on your crop, running a 1200 or 280000 acre site might mean that you're regularly applying rock for phosphorous - that is a slow process. Unless you started before we started farming, you're likely going to need a one or two time synthetic application. Water sources may entirely preclude certain micros based on water metrics, requiring intervention with presumed synthetics or remediating the water source. Potassium is another that is driven hard in some crops and can be tricky to give back at scale. The entire point of going closed-loop is to be able to scale, right? If it isn't scalable then it is pointless for the end goal of being better stewards for our planet.

I make the argument that the majority of micros (unless you're doing something truly closed loop like mostly using self-derived-ferments or farm animal compost for inputs) should be synthetic for folks. Bo, Mo, Co and such are tricky for organic inputs! Basically all micros are tricky unless you have a living animal's feces (after feeding it a plethora of inputs) or synthetics or centuries to wait. I think this is one of the arguments for ferments. I know the folks at Grease have shown some truly wild stuff with the humic/fulvics. Basically, if you give the plant a partially formed terpene or flavorant or cannabinoid or a derivative product, the plant is able to discern this and will take the path of least energy to form it's own (aka takes the building blocks up). Between that and the entire fact that many of the humic/fulvics can actually be home to microbial life as well, ferments are definitely the future (no matter what name or method they end up being associated with).

Another really good point that I never really thought of. Being how easy free salt transport is across root tissue, the reverse is also going to be true when it comes to decomposition. Mind gears are moving. :D I love what you're doing. Can't wait for the pics.
Click to expand...
Ill see of i can get some pics of my soil projects in a lil bit, stoked you get what I'm doing! It can confuse people round these parts.
 
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