Help - Bad Drooping and run off EC lower than inflow

mrPeppers · May 19, 2020

First time grower here and new member, everything has been going well up until now. I have been having issues the past day or two with my run off EC being lower than the inflow with bad drooping. I can't figure out why and any help would be much appreciated. using GH flora trio, GH CaliMagic, and GH Diamond Nectar.

5 Plants, 21 days from breaking the rapid rooter and am practicing high frequency fertigation, 2-3 times per day - inflow EC 1169 - PH from 5.9-6.1 - All runoff has been fluctuating between EC 940-1050 from the past 4 fertigations. Using mother earth 70% coco 30% perlite, assumed it was prewashed based on their website so I did not do that, however I did double buffer. The environment has been stable with a temp between 70-75 degrees and RH of 60-75. 4x4 Tent, Ac infinity S4, Spider farmer sf4000 dimmed to 200w 35" from canopy.

Here are some pics below, the close-ups are from the front left plant.

threatco · May 19, 2020

" high frequency fertigation "

my guess is going to be overwatering.

My suggestion is to let it dry out more between waterings.

They look great color-wise!

Anthem · May 19, 2020

Two things. The first I did not know you could do in Coco. The plants are over watered, that is what is creating the leaf sag. Second is go easy on the nutrients they are young plants.

mrPeppers · May 19, 2020

threatco said:
" high frequency fertigation "

my guess is going to be overwatering.

My suggestion is to let it dry out more between waterings.

They look great color-wise!

Thank you for the reply man, up until now they've been responding well to 5oz 3x per day with 20% run-off, I guess I'll drop it down to twice a day and see if they perk back up..

mrPeppers · May 19, 2020

Anthem said:
Two things. The first I did not know you could do in Coco. The plants are over watered, that is what is creating the leaf sag. Second is go easy on the nutrients they are young plants.

Do you think reducing feeding to just once a day should make them perk back up? or 2x a day? etc.. I have been giving them 5oz 3x a day w/ 20% runoff

threatco · May 19, 2020

mrPeppers said:
Do you think reducing feeding to just once a day should make them perk back up? or 2x a day? etc.. I have been giving them 5oz 3x a day w/ 20% runoff

I would go by mass. Weigh them or guestimate their heft, and let them get just about bone dry before you give them water every time. And when you do water, you can saturate the shit out of it.

That could end up being a watering every 2-3 days.

Basically the opposite of high frequency.

That is my understanding of what cannabis likes. (in soil)

mrPeppers · May 19, 2020

threatco said:
I would go by mass. Weigh them or guestimate their heft, and let them get just about bone dry before you give them water every time. And when you do water, you can saturate the shit out of it.

That could end up being a watering every 2-3 days.

Basically the opposite of high frequency.

That is my understanding of what cannabis likes. (in soil)

This is not soil, this is coco, which should always be saturated hence the post in the coco coir sub.

threatco · May 19, 2020

mrPeppers said:
This is not soil, this is coco, which should always be saturated hence the post in the coco coir sub.

The same rule applies. A simple google of how often to water coco coir does explain that yes it can be over watered, you do need to let it dry out. And early on that could take more than a day between waterings.

There is no airstone in there, without allowing it to dry the roots don't get oxygen.

The only difference is it "should" dry out faster than normal soil. But still, need to quantify that by feeling how heavy they are.

This is all just my opinion and I am the farthest thing from an expert. Perhaps a coco coir experienced grower can offer their insight.

Anthem · May 19, 2020

mrPeppers said:
This is not soil, this is coco, which should always be saturated hence the post in the coco coir sub.

You will find folks on this site that believe coco should be saturated. With that being said, I think you have taken it too far. The root zone needs 2 things to be happy. #1. Nutrients #2. Oxygen. What you are doing it creating an environment starved for Oxygen in the root zone. If the root zone is always wet, the roots cannot get oxygen. Just give it a try. Do not water for a day or two and see how the plant do. Worst thing is you will have to water.

mrPeppers · May 19, 2020

Anthem said:
You will find folks on this site that believe coco should be saturated. With that being said, I think you have taken it too far. The root zone needs 2 things to be happy. #1. Nutrients #2. Oxygen. What you are doing it creating an environment starved for Oxygen in the root zone. If the root zone is always wet, the roots cannot get oxygen. Just give it a try. Do not water for a day or two and see how the plant do. Worst thing is you will have to water.

there's definitely too much contradictory information surrounding coco on here. I've been finding/following alot of accurate info on cocoforcannabis .com and this lines up exactly. Thanks again bro

Anthem · May 19, 2020

mrPeppers said:
there's definitely too much contradictory information surrounding coco on here. I've been finding/following alot of accurate info on cocoforcannabis .com and this lines up exactly. Thanks again bro

Just be careful with the Coco and make sure to use a Cal Mag product with every water, or at least until the flush!!!!

MIMedGrower · May 19, 2020

mrPeppers said:
First time grower here and new member, everything has been going well up until now. I have been having issues the past day or two with my run off EC being lower than the inflow with bad drooping. I can't figure out why and any help would be much appreciated. using GH flora trio, GH CaliMagic, and GH Diamond Nectar.

5 Plants, 21 days from breaking the rapid rooter and am practicing high frequency fertigation, 2-3 times per day - inflow EC 1169 - PH from 5.9-6.1 - All runoff has been fluctuating between EC 940-1050 from the past 4 fertigations. Using mother earth 70% coco 30% perlite, assumed it was prewashed based on their website so I did not do that, however I did double buffer. The environment has been stable with a temp between 70-75 degrees and RH of 60-75. 4x4 Tent, Ac infinity S4, Spider farmer sf4000 dimmed to 200w 35" from canopy.

Here are some pics below, the close-ups are from the front left plant.

View attachment 975014 View attachment 975015 View attachment 975016

I think your feed ec is too high for that many feedings and now the excess nutrients are building up in the pot. Salt attracts salt. Once the ec in the medium is higher than the roots the plant will stop drinking and fully lock out. Lower feed strength after flushing pots out some.

Enforcer · May 19, 2020

Oh my god, some of you are going to F up his plants. He has already said he’s doing high frequency fertigation in coco/perlite. Stop with the soil recommendations. If you don’t understand the style, you shouldn’t try to advise others.

MrPeppers, drooping is not always a bad thing and you want the EC of the runoff to be lower than the input. If the runoff starts to go about 100ppm over your input, that would require action. I would say the droop may be caused by the temp being a little low and the humidity being a little high. You said you’re running LED so you can comfortably grow at 80*f and 60-70RH for veg. For me, when I’ve gone over 70RH they start to droop a little.
Your plants look great and you’re doing fine.

MIMedGrower · May 19, 2020

Enforcer said:
Oh my god, some of you are going to F up his plants. He has already said he’s doing high frequency fertigation in coco/perlite. Stop with the soil recommendations. If you don’t understand the style, you shouldn’t try to advise others.

MrPeppers, drooping is not always a bad thing and you want the EC of the runoff to be lower than the input. If the runoff starts to go about 100ppm over your input, that would require action. I would say the droop may be caused by the temp being a little low and the humidity being a little high. You said you’re running LED so you can comfortably grow at 80*f and 60-70RH for veg. For me, when I’ve gone over 70RH they start to droop a little.
Your plants look great and you’re doing fine.

Happy leaves do not droop that way. They are ribbed, wrinkled and contorting. If the same high ec is kept i believe it will get worse.

And lower runoff ec means either not enough nutrients for the plants or salt has built up and pouring through is no longer leaching the excess effectively.

100 ppm over input is preferred. Its when it gets much higher then needs lowered.

Aqua Man · May 19, 2020

Ime usually it's humidity, airflow or roots that cause heavy swollen leaves basically VPD if not the roots

I think coco can be fertigated constantly because it pulls in fresh nutes and o2 but doing more than needed is just wasteful.

I kinda feel of its dropping to much you could fertigate more often but it should drop a bit just like hydro. If the ppm is going up to much then your feed is to strong. Going down you may need to feed more frequently?

I know @Enforcer knows coco extremely well I seem to remember ideally about 800ppm and for this stage about 3 times a day maybe?

I'm not a coco guy but if the ppm are going down the plant is eating well and may need fed more often imo.

Aqua Man · May 19, 2020

OP this may help you understand your media a bit better.

Growing Cannabis in Coco Coir with High Frequency Fertigation - Coco For Cannabis

Learn how to unlock the magic of growing cannabis in coco coir with high frequency fertigation! Guide to feed and water cannabis in coco like a pro!

www.cocoforcannabis.com

mrPeppers · May 19, 2020

Aqua Man said:
OP this may help you understand your media a bit better.

Growing Cannabis in Coco Coir with High Frequency Fertigation - Coco For Cannabis

Learn how to unlock the magic of growing cannabis in coco coir with high frequency fertigation! Guide to feed and water cannabis in coco like a pro!

www.cocoforcannabis.com

Thank you, this morning they were perky again after being droopy all day yesterday with the 3x a day feedings. Leads me to believe the period last night with no feedings caused the coco to dry out a bit resulting in perky plants this morning. They were droopy again right after the first watering of the day...and even more after the second. I’ve decided I’m going to let the coco “dry out” overnight again and the reduce feedings to once or twice a day based on how they look.

Aqua Man · May 19, 2020

mrPeppers said:
Thank you, this morning they were perky again after being droopy all day yesterday with the 3x a day feedings. Leads me to believe the period last night with no feedings caused the coco to dry out a bit resulting in perky plants this morning. They were droopy again right after the first watering of the day...and even more after the second. I’ve decided I’m going to let the coco “dry out” overnight again and the reduce feedings to once or twice a day based on how they look.

What are your root zone temps, humidity, air temps? That can affect the leaves drooping. If the plants not transpiring well the stomata close and water is trapped in the leaves making them heavy and droop.

mrPeppers · May 19, 2020

Aqua Man said:
What are your root zone temps, humidity, air temps? That can affect the leaves drooping. If the plants not transpiring well the stomata close and water is trapped in the leaves making them heavy and droop.

root zone is 68-70° F, air temp is 73, RH fluctuates between 65-70

Aqua Man · May 19, 2020

mrPeppers said:
root zone is 68-70° F, air temp is 73, RH fluctuates between 65-70

Yup that's why. Raise air temps to 77-82f drop humidity to 60%

Help - Bad Drooping and run off EC lower than inflow

Help - Bad Drooping and run off EC lower than inflow

mrPeppers

threatco

Anthem

mrPeppers

mrPeppers

threatco

mrPeppers

threatco

Anthem

mrPeppers

Anthem

MIMedGrower

Enforcer

MIMedGrower

Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Growing Cannabis in Coco Coir with High Frequency Fertigation - Coco For Cannabis

mrPeppers

Growing Cannabis in Coco Coir with High Frequency Fertigation - Coco For Cannabis

Aqua Man

mrPeppers

Aqua Man

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