Help Me Pick My Lighting Please.

Smokey503ski · Feb 25, 2016

Hello folks. I am currently in the process of building out another grow.
My space will have to be movable since I get inspections.
Thinking of going with 2 8'x8' tents that are 6' 7" tall.
I have been looking into the 315w lec and some 600/750 DE lights.
With less than 7' of height I'm not sure which way to go.
I found these:

Gavita 600/750 DE $405 each. I'm thinking of running 4 750w de per 8x8 tent. $3200 for 8

Hydrofarm Phantom 315w CMH. 8 per tent
At $325 each $2603 for 8
Sunsystem 315w LEC $373 each. $2991 for 8

My dilemma is height in the tent.
Would the 750w DE not have enough height between canopy and lamp.
Which setup would give me the best buck to bang?
How would you spend the money on lighting? I'm open to other ideas as well. Just not led, not my thing.

NaturalTherapy · Feb 25, 2016

My space is 7'10" clearance, and it was too short to run gavitas, even down at 600 the intensity was a bit much. I opted for LEC but went with the 630w fixture. I'm really happy with it!

Smokey503ski · Feb 25, 2016

NaturalTherapy said:
My space is 7'10" clearance, and it was too short to run gavitas, even down at 600 the intensity was a bit much. I opted for LEC but went with the 630w fixture. I'm really happy with it!

Have you flowered with the 630w? Which lamps do you have 3100 or 4200?

NaturalTherapy · Feb 25, 2016

3100 and flowering now. Saw visible trichome increase in certain plants. Yield will please, I have no doubt

jumpincactus · Feb 25, 2016

you will not be successful with the gavies. Not enough head room. Trust me on this

jumpincactus · Feb 25, 2016

Here is my response from Gavita Holland when I asked them about mounting heights of their fixtures.

Date: 2015-02-16 09:28:39
Name: Yuri Kenter

Message:

Dear Chuck,

All tickets from last week have been answered so if you could provide the tracking ID from your previous question i can look what's happened.

Yes ceiling height is critical if you hang your fixtures to close to the canopy the heat intensity will damage your crop.
When calculating the number of fixtures required to light your crop you need to take the following into consideration:

1. When we light a room, we always light a complete room. This is the only way to create uniform light levels in your room. It is not recommended to only put lamps above your plants.

2. There is a minimal distance between the lamp and the crop. For 600W this is 60cm/2 ft, for 750W this is 70 cm / 2 ft 4 inch, for 1000W this is 90 cm / 3 ft. In larger rooms with many overlapping lights the optimal distance is often even a bit further away.

3. The reflectivity of your walls is a crucial factor. The lower the reflectivity of the walls, the lower the average light levels and the lower the uniformity. Walls have a bigger influence in a smaller room. We recommend to use high reflective material such as orca film of >90%.

4. Because of the influence of the walls the uniformity of the light near the walls is always lower. When we calculate the quality of the light as in uniformity % (min/avg) we always calculate a surface at 20-50cm from the walls (depending on the size of the room).

5. We calculate with 1000 umol m-2 s-1 for the generative phase (flowering, 12 hours cycle) and 670 umol m-2 s-1 for the vegetative phase (18 hours veg cycle). This is because your plants get 50% more light in the vegetative phase because you light them 18 hours instead of 12. The daily light integral (DLI, total amount of light the plants get per day) stays the same this way.

6. When combining plasma light to HPS we recommend a minimum of 1 LEP fixture per 600W HPS in veg, and minimum of 1 LEP fixture per 1200W in the flowering phase. More LEP will increase the quality of your crop.

7. In most cases the dimensions of a room are not ideal for the footprints of the lamps. Therefor most rooms have a different "sweet spot" for the lamps. In general though you should hang your lamps in-line, with the centers of the lamps between 90 cm and 110 cm apart. The distance between the rows is between 1.8 and 2.3 meters. The distance between the rows and the walls should be less than half the distance between your rows: when the rows are 2 m apart the ideal distance from the walls is likely to be 80 cm or less. At the head and tail of the rows the lamps should be really close to the walls (30-40 cm to the center of the lamp). This is because a HPS fixture always has a wide footprint.

I attached for you a sample calculation and a calculation spreadsheet to calculate how many lights you need, and if the dimensions of your room are sufficient for this lighting.

Best regards, met vriendelijke groet,

Yuri Kenter

Gavita Holland bv
Oosteinderweg 127
1432 AH Aalsmeer
The Netherlands
www.gavita-holland.com

Attachments:

Standard-climate-room-calculation-intake.xlsx

sample-calc-annotated.pdf

fishwhistle · Feb 25, 2016

I would say LEC with your height restrictions,i run the 750s with 8' ceiling height but wouldnt with any less.Im looking to try the cmh in flower soon,a little more cost but lots of good reports.Heres a little cheaper price on 750s if you go that way,
http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-600-750e-flex-de-120-240v-fixture

Jumpin,You can take half of what gavita says and throw it out the window,they just dont grow the way we do and most who work there havent grown pot in there life,lol.Not saying there not a great lighting co. at all but from experience ive learned to use common sense over there customer services recomendations.

jumpincactus · Feb 25, 2016

fishwhistle said:
I would say LEC with your height restrictions,i run the 750s with 8' ceiling height but wouldnt with any less.Im looking to try the cmh in flower soon,a little more cost but lots of good reports.Heres a little cheaper price on 750s if you go that way,
http://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-600-750e-flex-de-120-240v-fixture

Jumpin,You can take half of what gavita says and throw it out the window,they just dont grow the way we do and most who work there havent grown pot in there life,lol.Not saying there not a great lighting co. at all but from experience ive learned to use common sense over there customer services recomendations.

ya I hear you. Was just tryin to show dude his height wasn't adequate for gavies

Smokey503ski · Feb 25, 2016

Looks like I'm going with the lec.
Now just need to decide which.
The Phantom 315 with remote ballast for $325, or the Sunsystem Commercial 315w for $375
Seems like the Commercial would get better cross lighting over the Phantoms.

IronLeaf · Feb 26, 2016

I have 4 Boulder Lamps CMHs pulling about 315 Watts each and 4 Pacific Lighting Concepts COB LEDs by @tags420 and 2 1000 watt side Lighting HPS bulbs.

Growing in a tent, you don't have enough clearance for HPS on top or on the side. You'll burn your plant for sure if you go that route. I'd recommend the COB LEDs from PLC. They run super cool, which is a big issue in a tent and they perform awesome! I got about 1.5 pounds a plant with 7.5 foot ceilings, my first grow ever! Note: I had everything dialed in perfect and used CO2 in a DWC setup.

Get the CX300s. They pull about 300 Watts and perform at the level of 600 HPS. Denser foliage than the CMH though it looks like yield is about the same. However, with denser foliage and nugs, your plant can be a little shorter and they run a lot cooler than the CMH.

I'm not affiliated with PLC. I know of the owner through a mutual friend who taught me how to get started. The owner is very active in the community and is a stand up guy from what I understand.

The units do cost more than HPS and even CMH, but the savings in cooling equipment will offset that, plus the bulb life on LED is much better, so you have more cost savings there too.

Good luck whatever route you go.

IronLeaf · Feb 26, 2016

Smokey503ski said:
Looks like I'm going with the lec.

LECs are great, don't get me wrong. They are hot though and in a tent, you will need strong cooling and you'll need to train your plant to not grow too tall. Best of luck!

Smokey503ski · Feb 26, 2016

IronLeaf said:
I have 4 Boulder Lamps CMHs pulling about 315 Watts each and 4 Pacific Lighting Concepts COB LEDs by @tags420 and 2 1000 watt side Lighting HPS bulbs.

Growing in a tent, you don't have enough clearance for HPS on top or on the side. You'll burn your plant for sure if you go that route. I'd recommend the COB LEDs from PLC. They run super cool, which is a big issue in a tent and they perform awesome! I got about 1.5 pounds a plant with 7.5 foot ceilings, my first grow ever! Note: I had everything dialed in perfect and used CO2 in a DWC setup.

Get the CX300s. They pull about 300 Watts and perform at the level of 600 HPS. Denser foliage than the CMH though it looks like yield is about the same. However, with denser foliage and nugs, your plant can be a little shorter and they run a lot cooler than the CMH.

I'm not affiliated with PLC. I know of the owner through a mutual friend who taught me how to get started. The owner is very active in the community and is a stand up guy from what I understand.

The units do cost more than HPS and even CMH, but the savings in cooling equipment will offset that, plus the bulb life on LED is much better, so you have more cost savings there too.

Good luck whatever route you go.

I'm not sold on leds at all.
By the time they would supposedly pay off compared to traditional hps they would be obsolete.
I'm not worried at all about the the heat in a tent.
I'm thinking of going with the Phantom cmh. They can be air cooled if needed.
I appreciate the input and honesty.

Smokey503ski · Feb 26, 2016

What is the ideal height on the Gavita 750 DE between lamp and canopy?
If it's 3' or less I can make it work.

IronLeaf · Feb 26, 2016

Smokey503ski said:
I'm not sold on leds at all.
By the time they would supposedly pay off compared to traditional hps they would be obsolete.
I'm not worried at all about the the heat in a tent.
I'm thinking of going with the Phantom cmh. They can be air cooled if needed.
I appreciate the input and honesty.

I won't try to sell you, but I will say what I know. LEDs got a bad rap about 5 years ago because of junk from China claiming better performance than HPS. The units were crap. Their light was sub par and the parts fried quickly. Lots of people got ripped off and very angry, and rightly so.

Enter the new age of Chip on Board LEDs. They do what the Chinese junkers claimed 5 years ago. Keep your eyes open. You'll see.

IronLeaf · Feb 26, 2016

Smokey503ski said:
I'm not sold on leds at all.
By the time they would supposedly pay off compared to traditional hps they would be obsolete.
I'm not worried at all about the the heat in a tent.
I'm thinking of going with the Phantom cmh. They can be air cooled if needed.
I appreciate the input and honesty.

CMH IS great. You'll do well.

Smokey503ski · Feb 26, 2016

My thing is I don't believe leds are ready to invest in.
The cost is high and they keep changing and improving. Just like any technical item. It will take time.
I do believe they will be a great light to use. Once they come down in price and are blowing traditional lighting out of the water I will re think things.
They can't get any worse. They can only get better.

Herb Forester · Feb 27, 2016

Have you seen the price on The Nanolux 630? I just noticed them today, seems like a significant savings compared to the single cmh fixtures. And the reflector is replaceable. Think I'm headed that direction for a new project soon.

I'm another vote for CMH in your tents, way better choice for all the reasons mentioned (and I run Gavita 750s too). I think the 3100K lamps perform better in flower, and mixing them 50/50 with the 4200 just costs yield and leafier buds. I've experimented several ways with both and now just use the 4200 for vegging. The new flower rooms will be all 3100.

mancdank · Feb 27, 2016

jumpincactus said:
Here is my response from Gavita Holland when I asked them about mounting heights of their fixtures.

Date: 2015-02-16 09:28:39
Name: Yuri Kenter

Message:

Dear Chuck,

All tickets from last week have been answered so if you could provide the tracking ID from your previous question i can look what's happened.

Yes ceiling height is critical if you hang your fixtures to close to the canopy the heat intensity will damage your crop.
When calculating the number of fixtures required to light your crop you need to take the following into consideration:

1. When we light a room, we always light a complete room. This is the only way to create uniform light levels in your room. It is not recommended to only put lamps above your plants.

2. There is a minimal distance between the lamp and the crop. For 600W this is 60cm/2 ft, for 750W this is 70 cm / 2 ft 4 inch, for 1000W this is 90 cm / 3 ft. In larger rooms with many overlapping lights the optimal distance is often even a bit further away.

3. The reflectivity of your walls is a crucial factor. The lower the reflectivity of the walls, the lower the average light levels and the lower the uniformity. Walls have a bigger influence in a smaller room. We recommend to use high reflective material such as orca film of >90%.

4. Because of the influence of the walls the uniformity of the light near the walls is always lower. When we calculate the quality of the light as in uniformity % (min/avg) we always calculate a surface at 20-50cm from the walls (depending on the size of the room).

5. We calculate with 1000 umol m-2 s-1 for the generative phase (flowering, 12 hours cycle) and 670 umol m-2 s-1 for the vegetative phase (18 hours veg cycle). This is because your plants get 50% more light in the vegetative phase because you light them 18 hours instead of 12. The daily light integral (DLI, total amount of light the plants get per day) stays the same this way.

6. When combining plasma light to HPS we recommend a minimum of 1 LEP fixture per 600W HPS in veg, and minimum of 1 LEP fixture per 1200W in the flowering phase. More LEP will increase the quality of your crop.

7. In most cases the dimensions of a room are not ideal for the footprints of the lamps. Therefor most rooms have a different "sweet spot" for the lamps. In general though you should hang your lamps in-line, with the centers of the lamps between 90 cm and 110 cm apart. The distance between the rows is between 1.8 and 2.3 meters. The distance between the rows and the walls should be less than half the distance between your rows: when the rows are 2 m apart the ideal distance from the walls is likely to be 80 cm or less. At the head and tail of the rows the lamps should be really close to the walls (30-40 cm to the center of the lamp). This is because a HPS fixture always has a wide footprint.

I attached for you a sample calculation and a calculation spreadsheet to calculate how many lights you need, and if the dimensions of your room are sufficient for this lighting.

Best regards, met vriendelijke groet,

Yuri Kenter

Gavita Holland bv
Oosteinderweg 127
1432 AH Aalsmeer
The Netherlands
www.gavita-holland.com

Attachments:

Standard-climate-room-calculation-intake.xlsx

sample-calc-annotated.pdf

Awesome post bro thanks I've been looking into new lighting as I've been out of the game for a few years and ive been looking at these gravitas and this post pretty much nailed all the questions I had :)

mancdank · Feb 27, 2016

IronLeaf said:
I have 4 Boulder Lamps CMHs pulling about 315 Watts each and 4 Pacific Lighting Concepts COB LEDs by @tags420 and 2 1000 watt side Lighting HPS bulbs.

Growing in a tent, you don't have enough clearance for HPS on top or on the side. You'll burn your plant for sure if you go that route. I'd recommend the COB LEDs from PLC. They run super cool, which is a big issue in a tent and they perform awesome! I got about 1.5 pounds a plant with 7.5 foot ceilings, my first grow ever! Note: I had everything dialed in perfect and used CO2 in a DWC setup.

Get the CX300s. They pull about 300 Watts and perform at the level of 600 HPS. Denser foliage than the CMH though it looks like yield is about the same. However, with denser foliage and nugs, your plant can be a little shorter and they run a lot cooler than the CMH.

I'm not affiliated with PLC. I know of the owner through a mutual friend who taught me how to get started. The owner is very active in the community and is a stand up guy from what I understand.

The units do cost more than HPS and even CMH, but the savings in cooling equipment will offset that, plus the bulb life on LED is much better, so you have more cost savings there too.

Good luck whatever route you go.

It's the depth of canopy that has always worried me about led all the grows I've looked at the canopy is dense but not deep in comparison to hps I'm open to suggestions though if any 1 can point me in the right direction to any decent threads

mancdank · Feb 27, 2016

Smokey503ski said:
What is the ideal height on the Gavita 750 DE between lamp and canopy?
If it's 3' or less I can make it work.

If it is 3' it's not leaving much room bro standard tents are 2m high if it helps I've got a couple of tents that are to hold 2 x 600w lights and I get no less tha 40 oz out of each tent and that's just with standard lights are the improvements that these led and gravitas that impressive in comparison to the $ they demand ?

Help Me Pick My Lighting Please.

Help Me Pick My Lighting Please.

Smokey503ski

NaturalTherapy

Lighthouse

Smokey503ski

NaturalTherapy

Lighthouse

jumpincactus

Premium Member

jumpincactus

Premium Member

fishwhistle

jumpincactus

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Smokey503ski

IronLeaf

IronLeaf

Smokey503ski

Smokey503ski

IronLeaf

IronLeaf

Smokey503ski

Herb Forester

mancdank

mancdank

mancdank

Help Me Pick My Lighting Please.

Help Me Pick My Lighting Please.

Smokey503ski

NaturalTherapy

Lighthouse

Smokey503ski

NaturalTherapy

Lighthouse

jumpincactus

Premium Member

jumpincactus

Premium Member

fishwhistle

jumpincactus

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Smokey503ski

IronLeaf

IronLeaf

Smokey503ski

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IronLeaf

IronLeaf

Smokey503ski

Herb Forester

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