Help me understand watering my plants

BigBlonde · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
I grow organic but depending on what I add I need to adjust anyway, I dont follow just 1 feeding chart as I have different liquids from different brands for different purposes. I think its always good to make sure, if you already made sure then youre good but the experience might be different for someone using different nutes, even if they are organic.

Experience is a key word. Disregarding the charts and using multiple brands may not be good advice for a newbie. That said, organics have a different pathway to the plant than synthetics, and that's the key point regarding pH adjustment. Synthetics have a shorter pathway, so they are absorbed by the plant faster, and that absorption is affected by pH. I was looking for a chart that I've seen used here, but couldn't find it. Here's one I found that shows 6.2 to 6.5 is the best range for synthetics. The other chart is better, I think.

Mothman · Apr 9, 2023

BigBlonde said:
…I was looking for a chart that I've seen used here, but couldn't find it. Here's one I found that shows 6.2 to 6.5 is the best range for synthetics. The other chart is better, I think.

View attachment 1349504

Note that your pH chart above is for hydro setups. The soil chart has higher optimum numbers.

This (below) may not be the chart you mean, but it’s valid for non-hydro grows.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

OP, because you are new to growing you need to know that there are many different ways to grow so no one method is the "BEST". They all have their pros and cons.

IMO, it really depends on the growers ability, how they are able to understand the growth process and how they're care affects that process.

I've grown in practically every media and I always come back to soil. Will it give you the explosive growth you see with methods like DWC/Aeroponics/hydroponics? Probably not unless you have ascended to a point in your grow experience where you can achieve those performance levels in dirt.

That being said, I soil grow with synthetics. After all the time I've spent learning each method I've found, for me, soil and synthetics to be the easiest and most forgiving which is why I always suggest beginners start in dirt and learn the basics from there. I also suggest that they start with synthetic nutrients so that any errors can be corrected quickly and keep the plant going to harvest. Once you've mastered dirt growing you can move on to hydroponics.

So.....to answer your question, yes, if you are using synthetic nutrients then you want to pH your final feed mix. If you are using organic fertilizers and soil then you don't want to be adjusting the pH of the feed mix because the chemicals used to achieve that will kill off any beneficial organisms that you are trying to maintain in the soil.

My general rule of thumb when it comes to pHing in soil is:

Seedling/Clone - 6.3 - 6.5
Early to late veg - 6.5 - 6.8
Late veg into early flower - 7.2 - 7.5
Mid Flower to finish - 6.3 - 6.5

Keep it simple.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

Mothman said:
I think you meant to write, “many ph down liquids…” not ph up.

Correct, my bad.

Moshmen · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Wait what? Is 7-8 ph actually good? Youre the first person I see from all the articles and forums I saw that grows with such high ph, every nutrient absorption chart shows that 6-6,5 in soil and 5,5-6,5 in coco is the ideal ph for micro and macronutrients. Iron, manganese, boron, copper and zinc are not absorved properly in alkaline soils. Every soil mix I have available to buy wether coco or peat has a ph range from 5,5 to 6,5 and rarely 7. Since youre staff and probably experienced and Im new here maybe there's a secret that I dont know about this.

Most of the soul’s mentioned have a buffer to automatically adjust ph for you such as dolimite line .

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
OP, because you are new to growing you need to know that there are many different ways to grow so no one method is the "BEST". They all have their pros and cons.

IMO, it really depends on the growers ability, how they are able to understand the growth process and how they're care affects that process.

I've grown in practically every media and I always come back to soil. Will it give you the explosive growth you see with methods like DWC/Aeroponics/hydroponics? Probably not unless you have ascended to a point in your grow experience where you can achieve those performance levels in dirt.

That being said, I soil grow with synthetics. After all the time I've spent learning each method I've found, for me, soil and synthetics to be the easiest and most forgiving which is why I always suggest beginners start in dirt and learn the basics from there. I also suggest that they start with synthetic nutrients so that any errors can be corrected quickly and keep the plant going to harvest. Once you've mastered dirt growing you can move on to hydroponics.

So.....to answer your question, yes, if you are using synthetic nutrients then you want to pH your final feed mix. If you are using organic fertilizers and soil then you don't want to be adjusting the pH of the feed mix because the chemicals used to achieve that will kill off any beneficial organisms that you are trying to maintain in the soil.

My general rule of thumb when it comes to pHing in soil is:

Seedling/Clone - 6.3 - 6.5
Early to late veg - 6.5 - 6.8
Late veg into early flower - 7.2 - 7.5
Mid Flower to finish - 6.3 - 6.5

Keep it simple.

PH up and PH down wont kill your soil bacteria, maybe some of them, but that stuff is incredibly diluted, I use like 2 drops per every liter. Organic fertilizers are made specially to lower your ph too, thats why you usually dont need to touch anything unless youre making your own supersoil. Iguana Juice is 100% organic and it has acidity regulators, its from the PH perfect category they have, like sensi grow and conoisseur ph perfect, even tho these 2 last are not organic, maybe thats why you think that you dont need to take care of your ph with organics? Mineral fertilizers are indeed absorved quicker and rely more on ph, but I dont think organics dont rely on ph, Advanced Nutrients puts extra effort on lowering the ph of your water, wether you use full organic, mineral or bio-mineral.

Tyrant · Apr 9, 2023

helpmegrowbuds said:
OK that was one of my main concernsI was told ymto use organics nutes. Also are you growing indoors im doing mine outdoor wmbut starting indoors at first stage with no grow light

Yes indoors In a tent. This is one of them today.. ignore the droopy leaves lol she's having an off day.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

Moshmen said:
Most of the soul’s mentioned have a buffer to automatically adjust ph for you such as dolimite line .

There are many factors to consider still... I have ended up with runoff water with lower ph than 6 which wasnt pleasant since that was in late flowering and I didnt use any ph up or down that harvest, the acidity of the fertilizers took over the power of dolomite lime overtime to control ph fluctuations. Im sure they help but I dont think you can get a perfect harvest without meassuring everything, specially considering the variables depending on what fertilizers youre using, specially mineral fertilizers since they lower your ph even more. I wouldnt blindly trust any substrate to keep my ph perfect specially not during late flowering considering I had problems already by doing that.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
PH up and PH down wont kill your soil bacteria, maybe some of them, but that stuff is incredibly diluted, I use like 2 drops per every liter. Organic fertilizers are made specially to lower your ph too, thats why you usually dont need to touch anything unless youre making your own supersoil. Iguana Juice is 100% organic and it has acidity regulators, its from the PH perfect category they have, like sensi grow and conoisseur ph perfect, even tho these 2 last are not organic, maybe thats why you think that you dont need to take care of your ph with organics? Mineral fertilizers are indeed absorved quicker and rely more on ph, but I dont think organics dont rely on ph, Advanced Nutrients puts extra effort on lowering the ph of your water, wether you use full organic, mineral or bio-mineral.

ok........

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
ok........

Im not making stuff up, you can go to the official AN page and check. They say iguana juice takes care of the ph for you and every time I use any of their stuff from the true organics fertilizers the ph of my water lowers, sometimes not enough if I add potassium silicate which is highly alkaline,then I grab my ph down bottle and adjust. Soil bacteria needs a ph of around 6-7, I dont know what makes you think that rising the acidity of your water aka lowering the ph is bad for them, quite the contrary, they wont die until the ph goes below 4 and they dont like alkaline soils.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

Tyrant said:
I started my recent grow with Ocean forest im on week 3 right now never checked ph or added anything except water not sure what the ph of the water is but everything appears to be going great. I'll be starting nutes maybe next week or the week after. I'm a new grower tho so I don't have much to compare to lol.

helpmegrowbuds said:
Hello my question is if my water ph is 7.0 -7.2 will that be bad for my plant... also if I use that water will I have to make sure soil ph stay below 6.7 or should I just use water with ph 6.2-6.7 to keep soil ph at needed levels
Please advise

Well guys you have different opinions from experienced growers already here, I would highly recommend you that you take the ph matter on your own hands, more acidic in veg and less acidic in flowering, its easy to find what ph you need for your soil medium using google. The stuff they add helps, such as dolomite lime or azomite, but its not guaranteed to help you through all your grow and I suffered once for trusting my substrate too much. That doesnt mean you wont have a good harvest, but how good do you want it? If you wanna grow to the maximum potential you will always need a ph and ec meter, no matter how good your soil or nutes are, thats my opinion based in my experience and thats all I can say. There's too many variables for brands to hand you the perfect formula where you will always have the ph you want, they surely help a ton tho.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Im not making stuff up, you can go to the official AN page and check. They say iguana juice takes care of the ph for you and every time I use any of their stuff from the true organics fertilizers the ph of my water lowers, sometimes not enough if I add potassium silicate which is highly alkaline,then I grab my ph down bottle and adjust. Soil bacteria needs a ph of around 6-7, I dont know what makes you think that rising the acidity of your water aka lowering the ph is bad for them, quite the contrary, they wont die until the ph goes below 4 and they dont like alkaline soils.

Do you know Big Mike?

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

BigBlonde said:
Experience is a key word. Disregarding the charts and using multiple brands may not be good advice for a newbie. That said, organics have a different pathway to the plant than synthetics, and that's the key point regarding pH adjustment. Synthetics have a shorter pathway, so they are absorbed by the plant faster, and that absorption is affected by pH. I was looking for a chart that I've seen used here, but couldn't find it. Here's one I found that shows 6.2 to 6.5 is the best range for synthetics. The other chart is better, I think.

View attachment 1349504

I agree, Im not telling them to do their own chart but not even asking them what nutes they are using before saying "dont control your ph" is not good, nor is blindly trusting any nute or soil to keep the ph at the most optium level. Sure they add ph buffers but thats mostly to help newbies not kill their plants, if you want a perfect ph you need to do it yourself because no one but you knows the ph of your solution. As for nutrient absorption, going higher than 7,5 is gonna be really bad for you even if you use organic nutrients, you need to be specially careful with ph using synthetics because as you said they are absorved quicker which means that youre gonna burn your plant if you fuck up with the ph or create a nutrient lockout due to any nutrient being absorved in unhealthy ratios, with organic you dont have to worry as much because the absorption is slower and the plant can take it easy, that doesnt mean you dont need more or less the same ph.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Do you know Big Mike?

Yessir, why?

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Yessir, why?

Just curious....how do you know him?

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Just curious....how do you know him?

I mean I dont know him personally, I use his products and I know a bit about AN and its history. I honestly was unsure if you were talking about the person or the Big Mike OG Tea product lol. Anyway, why are you asking? You got me intrigued.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Because I know Big Mike. Personally.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Because I know Big Mike. Personally.

Oh, thats great, I would like to know him too, but I dont see how is that relevant to this talk hahaha. Im not questioning your experience Im just talking about mine and putting facts on the table. In fact if you wanna know which acidic compound he uses for his iguana juice it says so in the webpage:

Contains lignosulfonate, which create the optimal conditions for effective absorption

OG Organics™ Iguana Juice® by Advanced Nutrients

Unlock a Bountiful Organic Garden with Advanced Nutrients' OG Organics™ Iguana Juice® Base Nutrients

www.advancednutrients.com

So maybe since you know him you can ask him why is he using ph regulators in his organic liquids? :P

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Oh, thats great, I would like to know him too, but I dont see how is that relevant to this talk hahaha. Im not questioning your experience Im just talking about mine and putting facts on the table. In fact if you wanna know which acidic compound he uses for his iguana juice it says so in the webpage:

Contains lignosulfonate, which create the optimal conditions for effective absorption

OG Organics™ Iguana Juice® by Advanced Nutrients

Unlock a Bountiful Organic Garden with Advanced Nutrients' OG Organics™ Iguana Juice® Base Nutrients

www.advancednutrients.com

So maybe since you know him you can ask him why is he using ph regulators in his organic liquids? :P

What is he using for pH regulators?

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
What is he using for pH regulators?

I just posted it... lignosulfonate.

Help me understand watering my plants

Help me understand watering my plants

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Moshmen

Eledin

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