Help me understand watering my plants

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

Im aware that its a polymer that helps absorption but afaik it has a ph range of 4 to 12 depending on the type youre using. Also do you think someone would throw a bunch of organic material and not test the ph afterwards? Do you really think that your friend Mike didnt regulate the ph in his product? All of his base fertilizers come with ph regulators, and you can easily tell by adding it to water and testing the ph which Ive done hundreds of times, but when youre working with different quantities, lets say when the plant is small, a small dose might not leave the desired ph.

Tyrant · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Well guys you have different opinions from experienced growers already here, I would highly recommend you that you take the ph matter on your own hands, more acidic in veg and less acidic in flowering, its easy to find what ph you need for your soil medium using google. The stuff they add helps, such as dolomite lime or azomite, but its not guaranteed to help you through all your grow and I suffered once for trusting my substrate too much. That doesnt mean you wont have a good harvest, but how good do you want it? If you wanna grow to the maximum potential you will always need a ph and ec meter, no matter how good your soil or nutes are, thats my opinion based in my ei plan on xperience and thats all I can say. There's too many variables for brands to hand you the perfect formula where you will always have the ph you want, they surely help a ton tho.

I plan on ordering one and will. It's allot to buy everything all at once so I'm slowly buying stuff I need, ill get there. I think I'd like to know what it is even if it was good just as a peace of mind lol...

Eledin said:
I agree, Im not telling them to do their own chart but not even asking them what nutes they are using before saying "dont control your ph" is not good, nor is blindly trusting any nute or soil to keep the ph at the most optium level. Sure they add ph buffers but thats mostly to help newbies not kill their plants, if you want a perfect ph you need to do it yourself because no one but you knows the ph of your solution. As for nutrient absorption, going higher than 7,5 is gonna be really bad for you even if you use organic nutrients, you need to be specially careful with ph using synthetics because as you said they are absorved quicker which means that youre gonna burn your plant if you fuck up with the ph or create a nutrient lockout due to any nutrient being absorved in unhealthy ratios, with organic you dont have to worry as much because the absorption is slower and the plant can take it easy, that doesnt mean you dont need more or less the same ph.

I'm using this

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Im aware that its a polymer that helps absorption but afaik it has a ph range of 4 to 12 depending on the type youre using. Also do you think someone would throw a bunch of organic material and not test the ph afterwards? Do you really think that your friend Mike didnt regulate the ph in his product? All of his base fertilizers come with ph regulators, and you can easily tell by adding it to water and testing the ph which Ive done hundreds of times, but when youre working with different quantities, lets say when the plant is small, a small dose might not leave the desired ph.

Leonardite

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

Tyrant said:
I plan on ordering one and will. It's allot to buy everything all at once so I'm slowly buying stuff I need, ill get there. I think I'd like to know what it is even if it was good just as a peace of mind lol...
I'm using this

I get it man, I had to start my first grow with homemade fertilizer and unproper lighting but by the end of it I had most of what I really needed. Thats why I suggested using lemon as ph down, its cheap and easily available but not ideal since the plant absorves it quicker than other acids used for agriculture. It did the trick for me and I was very happy with the end results tho, but my next one was way better because I had everything ready.
The fertilizers youre using are from the brand we were talking about hahaha they already lower the ph for you but it wouldnt hurt to test it when you have to work with small doses due to young plants, small strains or strains that dont tolerate much fertilization, as I said previously sometimes when you add less than the average dose you might need a little bit more acidity, specially in the growing phase.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Tyrant said:
I plan on ordering one and will. It's allot to buy everything all at once so I'm slowly buying stuff I need, ill get there. I think I'd like to know what it is even if it was good just as a peace of mind lol...
I'm using this

Since they're "pH perfect" then you should have no need for a pen if you continue using their products according to the propaganda.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
I just posted it... lignosulfonate.

Contains lignosulfonate, which create the optimal conditions for effective absorption

How does improved absorption regulate pH?

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Leonardite

Leonardite if you buy Ancient Earth, not with the Iguana Juice base, which is in the same feeding chart, and so is Big Bud Liquid which has ascorbic and citric acid, do you think he played with the ph lvls to enchance the formula? Clearly yes which was my point, even when growing organic you want an adequate ph and its never above 7, so if your liquid and your substrate does it for you great, but youre still gonna have to check because the ammount the ph will move will depend on how many ml per liters you use, see where Im going? If youre using the full 4ml per liter then okay, your ph is perfect, and I tested it, but if you use less it might not be enough, specially since his additives in growth are not as acidic as his additives for blooming like Big Bud Liquid, Nirvana and B52. Man I have the entire AN catalog right in my house lol along with other brands, more than 2k Euros in fertilizers.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Contains lignosulfonate, which create the optimal conditions for effective absorption

How does improved absorption regulate pH?

Right ph improves absorption, you got it backwards. I said which ph that compound has and even if its not the main acidic ingredient it has humic and fulvic acids and a bunch of other stuff that you need to carefully mix to get the right PH. Do you think anyone would buy his products if they made your ph go crazy high or low? The entire AN chart is carefully arranged to give optimal PH, EC and nutes even if youre a noob, which is why its such a solid brand to begin with, I love it, so much care has been put in there and it really shows, even if youre an expert grower.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Leonardite if you buy Ancient Earth, not with the Iguana Juice base, which is in the same feeding chart, and so is Big Bud Liquid which has ascorbic and citric acid, do you think he played with the ph lvls to enchance the formula? Clearly yes which was my point, even when growing organic you want an adequate ph and its never above 7, so if your liquid and your substrate does it for you great, but youre still gonna have to check because the ammount the ph will move will depend on how many ml per liters you use, see where Im going? If youre using the full 4ml per liter then okay, your ph is perfect, and I tested it, but if you use less it might not be enough, specially since his additives in growth are not as acidic as his additives for blooming like Big Bud Liquid, Nirvana and B52. Man I have the entire AN catalog right in my house lol along with other brands, more than 2k Euros in fertilizers.

Never above 7. Got it.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Never above 7. Got it.

Yeah, that doesnt mean 7 is the best, specially not for the growth phase, youre playing dumb right now, you know this.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Yeah, that doesnt mean 7 is the best, specially not for the growth phase, youre playing dumb right now, you know this.

Just learnin'........

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

@Tyrant Forgot to say, if you dont have this already your priority right now besides those 3 bottles is getting a decent PK and Carbohydrates liquid to fatten your buds in the last weeks before flushing. Overdrive is from the same brand, PK fertilizer with magnesium and a pinch of nitrogen to avoid dissaster, Bud Candy is great for suggars when it comes to fattening the buds. You can also find cheaper alternatives.

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Just learnin'........

Yeah... sure, like I have not seen your pictures already and I know youre trolling me, damn it xD

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Yeah... sure, like I have not seen your pictures already and I know youre trolling me, damn it xD

Must be an impostor. I learn new things on this site every day.

Did you like the photos you saw? Did the plants look OK? Any deficiencies or lockout in those photos?

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

RootsRuler said:
Must be an impostor. I learn new things on this site every day.

Good professionals never stop learning. But I highly doubt I said anything you didnt know already and I think that we both know that you dont necessarily need to keep your ph perfect for a good grow, its just 1 of many factors. Big growers sometimes cant afford the luxury of paying so much detail to everything and paying so much money, I get why you say that growing organic you dont necessarily need to check your ph because the mix of organic elements youre using are already mixed in a way to give proper ph even if not perfect, but Im a perfectionist and I dont grow big scale, I usuall have around 10 plants in 2 indoors. Same goes for other things like carefully checking the trichome ratios in all your plants, if I had 100 I would never hahahaha, with experience you can see more or less when they are ready and when youre dealing with a new strain maybe youre more careful but thats it.

RootsRuler · Apr 9, 2023

Have you ever worked in a cultivation facility?

Observationist · Apr 9, 2023

helpmegrowbuds said:
Wow that good to know.. and your saying your soil ph actually regulated it ph on its own??

Good soil has pH buffers

Look at plants in nature, no one is going around adding pH up or down for any of those plants.

I don't know the exact mechanics besides that the plant releases exudates and also can change its own surrounding pH to an extent.

Nature ie soil/organics balances it out it's self

A good soil will do this, and have pH buffers.

Mikedin · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
Wait what? Is 7-8 ph actually good? Youre the first person I see from all the articles and forums I saw that grows with such high ph, every nutrient absorption chart shows that 6-6,5 in soil and 5,5-6,5 in coco is the ideal ph for micro and macronutrients. Iron, manganese, boron, copper and zinc are not absorved properly in alkaline soils. Every soil mix I have available to buy wether coco or peat has a ph range from 5,5 to 6,5 and rarely 7. Since youre staff and probably experienced and Im new here maybe there's a secret that I dont know about this.

Mine averages 7.3 out of the tap. Besides running it through a chlorine / chloramine / VOC filter I also let it sit in primo water jugs for a few days, I have 4 full all the time and rotate them as I use them and refill them.

This run is Gaia Green with epsom salts and gypsum etc using the @Shaded_One method

Eledin · Apr 9, 2023

Observationist said:
Good soil has pH buffers

Look at plants in nature, no one is going around adding pH up or down for any of those plants.

I don't know the exact mechanics besides that the plant releases exudates and also can change its own surrounding pH to an extent.

Nature ie soil/organics balances it out it's self

A good soil will do this, and have pH buffers.

II never like the argument "they dont have it in nature". They dont have anyone checking humidity levels or EC either, nor feeding specific nutrients at specific times or making compost tea for them, hell I could just throw the seed in there and fuck it if thats your argument but I wont do that lol.

GNick55 · Apr 9, 2023

Eledin said:
II never like the argument "they dont have it in nature". They dont have anyone checking humidity levels or EC either, nor feeding specific nutrients at specific times or making compost tea for them, hell I could just throw the seed in there and fuck it if thats your argument but I wont do that lol.

wtf? haha

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