Help with first grow ever

Tris · Apr 9, 2022

Hello, I'm new to growing and decided to start with hydro.
I am writing because I need a bit of help to identify what's wrong with my plants.
They are 2 weeks old since sprouting, and I'm noticing that the leaves are curling up.
I've made a device to view humidity and temperature both on the water and in the ambient. Water temp has been at about 22/23 °c with a peak of 25 for a few hours.
Ambient humidity around 50 with some days being around 30
I have a DC computer fan that can blow both in an out of the tent (with the outlet leading to the outside)
I have made the nutrient solution a little bit lighter than the tables provided by the seller.
My pH is around 5.7/6 and ec is around 0.8/0.9
I have uploaded some photos that show the curly leaves.
Ps: I'm not from the US so I don't have access to any product from there.

JSH1973 · Apr 9, 2022

I think it looks healthy enough to no be worried, very good start for a new geower and in hydro as well

Moe.Red · Apr 9, 2022

Great first post, welcome to the farm.

First - get rid of that cardboard. Getting it wet will only give pests habitat.

My first guess is humidity swings. If I am reading this right, you go from 90's to 20's. You can still grow in that environment just like you can't control the outdoors, but indoor plants seem to always grow better with less distress than outdoor, largely because we can control the environment.

Can you show us the roots?

This plant can still recover and prosper if you give it what it needs. I'm going to guess it is an Indica leaning photoperiod that was probably a feminized seed? Can you fill in the blanks?

chemistry · Apr 9, 2022

Is your net pot an inch above the water in your bucket when the lid is on/in place?

Tris · Apr 9, 2022

chemistry said:
Is your net pot an inch above the water in your bucket when the lid is on/in place?

Yes it is

Tris · Apr 9, 2022

Moe.Red said:
Great first post, welcome to the farm.

First - get rid of that cardboard. Getting it wet will only give pests habitat.

My first guess is humidity swings. If I am reading this right, you go from 90's to 20's. You can still grow in that environment just like you can't control the outdoors, but indoor plants seem to always grow better with less distress than outdoor, largely because we can control the environment.

Can you show us the roots?

This plant can still recover and prosper if you give it what it needs. I'm going to guess it is an Indica leaning photoperiod that was probably a feminized seed? Can you fill in the blanks?

Hi, thanks for your reply.
It's an autoflower I think Colorado cookies or blue mazar (not sure because there was a mixup with my other plant) I'm giving them 20/4 HS of light with a quantum board led, 80w.
Would it be better if I get a humidifier? I could make it automatic with an Arduino to try to reduce those huge variations in humidity. However if the humidity in a particular day is higher than my ideal humidity then there is nothing I can do (except getting a dehumidifier but I would prefer not doing that).
here are some pics from the roots, they are white and look healthy.
Also, plant #2 doesn't show as many curls as the one I posted in the first post.
I will now remove the cardboard, is there anything else you would recommend to block the lights?
Plant#1

Plant #2

Moe.Red · Apr 9, 2022

Tris said:
Hi, thanks for your reply.
It's an autoflower I think Colorado cookies or blue mazar (not sure because there was a mixup with my other plant) I'm giving them 20/4 HS of light with a quantum board led, 80w.
Would it be better if I get a humidifier? I could make it automatic with an Arduino to try to reduce those huge variations in humidity. However if the humidity in a particular day is higher than my ideal humidity then there is nothing I can do (except getting a dehumidifier but I would prefer not doing that).
here are some pics from the roots, they are white and look healthy.
Also, plant #2 doesn't show as many curls as the one I posted in the first post.
I will now remove the cardboard, is there anything else you would recommend to block the lights?
Plant#1
View attachment 1234346
Plant #2
View attachment 1234348
View attachment 1234347

To block the light to the roots you need hydroton and a canopy. Some folks use a styrofoam or plastic product across the tops but that is more about insulation trying to keep res temps down to improve O2 sats in the water and reduce the chance of root rot from bad bacteria which thrives at warmer temps.

Your roots look great BTW.

So Humidity and leaf temps set something called Vapor Pressure Deficit. VPD is the search term. VPD is what sets the respiration of the plant. Stomata on the bottoms of the leaves open and close based on stimulus from the environment. By having wide swings in temp and/or humidity, you are telling the plants one day to grow fast, suck up a lot of water and nutrients, and the next day to slow it all down, or shut it off completely. This happens outdoors all the time, and plants adapt to it by doing what you see above - killing off the problematic part of the plant tp save the rest. If you walk outside and look at the plants (just coming into bloom here in midwest USA) you are very unlikely to see a uniformly perfect plant. This is a normal response.

As indoor growers, we have the ability to neutralize environmental swings and potentially grow a plant stress free from seedling to harvest. If you look at the great grow diaries by so many people here, there are pics all the way thru the grow and your symptoms are never seen. Arguably, this produces the best quality product, and is the goal and reason for doing it at home.

Those environmental controls come at a cost. Equipment, time, space, electricity, and clearly money. I can't put my values on you, so you have to make a choice. Really, the question is what are you limited by? Space? Money? Desire?

Again, you will be able to grow good weed in your current situation, people get by all the time. But if you want to invest in this long term, I can help you do that.

As to this grow, you are doing OK for today. Eventually new growth will overtake the bad leaves and they will come off. They will not recover at this point. New growth will.

Tris · Apr 9, 2022

Moe.Red said:
To block the light to the roots you need hydroton and a canopy. Some folks use a styrofoam or plastic product across the tops but that is more about insulation trying to keep res temps down to improve O2 sats in the water and reduce the chance of root rot from bad bacteria which thrives at warmer temps.

Your roots look great BTW.

So Humidity and leaf temps set something called Vapor Pressure Deficit. VPD is the search term. VPD is what sets the respiration of the plant. Stomata on the bottoms of the leaves open and close based on stimulus from the environment. By having wide swings in temp and/or humidity, you are telling the plants one day to grow fast, suck up a lot of water and nutrients, and the next day to slow it all down, or shut it off completely. This happens outdoors all the time, and plants adapt to it by doing what you see above - killing off the problematic part of the plant tp save the rest. If you walk outside and look at the plants (just coming into bloom here in midwest USA) you are very unlikely to see a uniformly perfect plant. This is a normal response.

As indoor growers, we have the ability to neutralize environmental swings and potentially grow a plant stress free from seedling to harvest. If you look at the great grow diaries by so many people here, there are pics all the way thru the grow and your symptoms are never seen. Arguably, this produces the best quality product, and is the goal and reason for doing it at home.

Those environmental controls come at a cost. Equipment, time, space, electricity, and clearly money. I can't put my values on you, so you have to make a choice. Really, the question is what are you limited by? Space? Money? Desire?

Again, you will be able to grow good weed in your current situation, people get by all the time. But if you want to invest in this long term, I can help you do that.

As to this grow, you are doing OK for today. Eventually new growth will overtake the bad leaves and they will come off. They will not recover at this point. New growth will.

Thank you very much, I will get the humidifier to better control the humidity.
I'm planning on growing casually, so I don't want to spend alot for now.
Thanks again for all the useful info.

Moe.Red · Apr 9, 2022

If you think that low humidity is the issue, sure try a humidifier. Most folks are unhappy with the little ones you get on amazon, so take a few minutes and think it thru. How big is the space?

Also consider that once you get in the later stages of veg and into flower, most growers have difficulties in the other direction - too humid, especially at night. This will cause bud rot if left unchecked.

If I was growing hydroponically and could only have one or the other, I would find a way to bring the RH down either with a blower to the outside thru a carbon filter or dehumidifier. With RH down control, you can also use your grow space for drying if you want to.

Cashmeh · Apr 9, 2022

So you dont need to worry about adding humidity. With Hydro you get plenty of watervapor going up through the leafs as your airbubbles escape. I have never seen over 50% humidity in veg and have very fast vegging capabilities if I must say so. Humidity is for the soil guys and clones in my opinion. Yet when your roots stay fully submerged in water, its not as big of an issue.

If your going to be flowering in this room, you dont want to see high humidity levels ever. I would suggest working on lowering your overall levels of humidity. If your just trying to increase your lows to match your high marks, its going to work for veg only.

Just read moes last comment too, dont mean to repeat him but yea im going to also ;)

I use high air exchange. Any moisture that evaportes off my plants leaves the room instantly along with my c02 i cant use anymore lol. . So i guess it depends if your wanting to use c02 in the future cause then sure get a dehumidifier and be done. But if your not planning on running c02 or using a sealed room, just throw a big ass fan up and blow the air downstairs upstairs, im assuming your in a basement with rh swings that high.

Tris · Apr 9, 2022

Cashmeh said:
So you dont need to worry about adding humidity. With Hydro you get plenty of watervapor going up through the leafs as your airbubbles escape. I have never seen over 50% humidity in veg and have very fast vegging capabilities if I must say so. Humidity is for the soil guys and clones in my opinion. Yet when your roots stay fully submerged in water, its not as big of an issue.

If your going to be flowering in this room, you dont want to see high humidity levels ever. I would suggest working on lowering your overall levels of humidity. If your just trying to increase your lows to match your high marks, its going to work for veg only.

Just read moes last comment too, dont mean to repeat him but yea im going to also ;)

I use high air exchange. Any moisture that evaportes off my plants leaves the room instantly along with my c02 i cant use anymore lol. . So i guess it depends if your wanting to use c02 in the future cause then sure get a dehumidifier and be done. But if your not planning on running c02 or using a sealed room, just throw a big ass fan up and blow the air downstairs upstairs, im assuming your in a basement with rh swings that high.

I'm actually in an apartment, some of the peaks are because some changes in the measuring device I made, so they are not real measurements. Though these las days climate has had very wide humidity ranges.
I have a large 12v fan that blows air outside.
What could be the problem if humidity isn't?
Thank you very much

Aqua Man · Apr 9, 2022

Heat/light stress or to much wind imo. Worst case mites but unlikely although possible

Moe.Red · Apr 10, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Heat/light stress or to much wind imo. Worst case mites but unlikely although possible

But there is only 80 W of light and a 12v computer fan.

Aqua Man · Apr 10, 2022

Moe.Red said:
But there is only 80 W of light and a 12v computer fan.

Yes but how close are they? 80w light at that age I’m gonna say should be min 2ft. and maybe 3ft away and I’d drop the light cycle to 18/6.

they don’t need direct airflow at this stage as they are not near dense enough.

if it’s not either of those then I’d start scoping for mites.

But I’m over 99% confident it’s light or wind or combination of with low humidity and it’s not able to take up water fast enough for the rate of photosynthesis (driving force of transpiration) that light is pushing out with ANY direct airflow making the issue worse.

IMO raise that light to 3 ft. Shut the fan off completely until it gets some legs and in a matter of days it will look beautiful. It simply doesn’t have the root system for the demand being put forth on water uptake. Environment will be a big factor also and why VPD is also key here to the plants ability for light tolerance

Keifer2k3 · Apr 10, 2022

Tris said:
Hello, I'm new to growing and decided to start with hydro.
I am writing because I need a bit of help to identify what's wrong with my plants.
They are 2 weeks old since sprouting, and I'm noticing that the leaves are curling up.
I've made a device to view humidity and temperature both on the water and in the ambient. Water temp has been at about 22/23 °c with a peak of 25 for a few hours.
Ambient humidity around 50 with some days being around 30
I have a DC computer fan that can blow both in an out of the tent (with the outlet leading to the outside)
I have made the nutrient solution a little bit lighter than the tables provided by the seller.
My pH is around 5.7/6 and ec is around 0.8/0.9
I have uploaded some photos that show the curly leaves.
Ps: I'm not from the US so I don't have access to any product from there.
View attachment 1234321 View attachment 1234322 View attachment 1234323

Hi, be sure to ph your water to 5.8 after adding nutes. Check your ppm/tds in run off. You should be around 700-900 ppm at this point, but should need to increase to 1100 ppm soon if you get healthy. I've grown in many different humidities. I don't think it matters much while growing unless extremes with huge fluctuations. Anything between 40rh and 80rh won't kill your plants. But be careful with high humidity during flowering because of bud rot. Of course, when you become a master grower, there are different recommended rh for part of growth cycle and then for different strains

Be sure to follow recommendations for distance from canopy with your light.

Use Jack's 321 and water to 20% runoff in coco you'll be golden everytime

smokedareefer · Apr 10, 2022

Keifer2k3 said:
Hi, be sure to ph your water to 5.8 after adding nutes. Check your ppm/tds in run off. You should be around 700-900 ppm at this point, but should need to increase to 1100 ppm soon if you get healthy. I've grown in many different humidities. I don't think it matters much while growing unless extremes with huge fluctuations. Anything between 40rh and 80rh won't kill your plants. But be careful with high humidity during flowering because of bud rot. Of course, when you become a master grower, there are different recommended rh for part of growth cycle and then for different strains

View attachment 1234610

Be sure to follow recommendations for distance from canopy with your light.

Use Jack's 321 and water to 20% runoff in coco you'll be golden everytime

A ppm of 300 is all that a plant that size needs.

He's growing in DWC there is no run off to measure.

Ppms are at 400 to 470 for my plants this size. rdwc seldom do i get above 600 at the end. Feeding GH 3 part

Maxwax · Apr 10, 2022

Personally as a first time indoor grower in early week 3 I believe that following the VPD chart and hitting the sweet spot for my plant age has been key in awesome growth and performance. Along with proper watering of course but I dont think enough people pay attention to Vapor Pressure at all stages of growth.

Moe.Red · Apr 10, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Yes but how close are they? 80w light at that age I’m gonna say should be min 2ft. and maybe 3ft away and I’d drop the light cycle to 18/6.

they don’t need direct airflow at this stage as they are not near dense enough.

if it’s not either of those then I’d start scoping for mites.

But I’m over 99% confident it’s light or wind or combination of with low humidity and it’s not able to take up water fast enough for the rate of photosynthesis (driving force of transpiration) that light is pushing out with ANY direct airflow making the issue worse.

IMO raise that light to 3 ft. Shut the fan off completely until it gets some legs and in a matter of days it will look beautiful. It simply doesn’t have the root system for the demand being put forth on water uptake. Environment will be a big factor also and why VPD is also key here to the plants ability for light tolerance

Agreed the root system is small. I’d prefer to be growing down rather than up at this stage.

so to summarize everyone’s input light intensity (can we see a pic of the whole setup with lights) air movement rh and temp are the set points that need balance.

Dugplug · Apr 10, 2022

Tris said:
Thank you very much, I will get the humidifier to better control the humidity.
I'm planning on growing casually, so I don't want to spend alot for now.
Thanks again for all the useful info.

You want high humidity when it's in vegetative phase 60 even 70 percent as long as your plant isn't susceptible to mold or fungus then you want it lowered down when it goes into flower phase more like 40 percent. Do you have room for a humidifier humidity is very important for plants look at your rain forest high humidity I also have a couple large glasses filled with water in there and humidity is at 45 % I'm growing Bruce banner auto and northern lights auto Bruce banner is a beast its growing like a "WEED"!!! IM at 7 weeks as of today don't know how much I'm going to get from. them but I'm betting it's gonna be a boatload of weed if there is a such thing please excuse me for rambling on I've been smoking my gorilla glue.

Aqua Man · Apr 10, 2022

Just drop this for the OP if he wants to understand humidity and how if effects plant health and growth.

VPD (vapor pressure deficit)

Ok i was gonna sit down and write out a whole article but i have been lazy so instead instead I'm going to copy paste because im lazy. This is not my work so let start. You may find this very long but its worth the read. Some may want to skip ahead. I have added here and there to what i feel is...

www.thcfarmer.com

just to add wind increases transpiration rates through forced evaporation. And that will increase demand on the roots for more water in the same way lower humidity (higher VPD) does.

Help with first grow ever

Help with first grow ever

Tris

JSH1973

Moe.Red

chemistry

Tris

Tris

Moe.Red

Tris

Moe.Red

Cashmeh

Tris

Aqua Man

Moe.Red

Aqua Man

Keifer2k3

smokedareefer

Maxwax

Moe.Red

Dugplug

Aqua Man

VPD (vapor pressure deficit)

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