Help With Sweeteners

Disco Duck · Jul 16, 2011

Good to see you use Floralicious Grow and Bloom, those are the only GH bottles I still have left so I will keep using those. What are they, what do they do?

I use a GH Rainforest, RDWC with an aeroponic mist above the waterline. Plants are clones I get in Rockwool cubes, I put into 6" pots and surround with Hydroton. I have a chiller and the water is always 67-69.

The two issues I have are this taste both grows have had, that I assumed was the "Pineapple" flavoring of FloraNectar (GH's sweetener) and slimy brown roots. Adding DM Zone to the mix half-way through the last grow gave me healthy roots above the waterline, and the same slimy black mush for roots hanging in the water.

Light was getting in the res, I have covered the Rainforest "vents" with reflecting tape for the next grow, and am thinking about also using H202 just to be sure.

So what I am trying to achieve is a mix that will be "clean" like Kool Aid, give the plants everything they want, and have healthy roots. If I can achieve that this grow I will be doing much better than the last two.

So if I were to use...

GH 3-Part
Floralicious Grow & Bloom
Bot Silica Blast
Bot CalMag+
AN Hammerhead
MOAB
DM Zone
H202

Would that be good mix? Am I missing anything important or would this do it? This sure would be cheaper and easier than what I have been using

nangonug · Jul 16, 2011

Why are you trying to overcomplacate things. Try one run of house and garden or canna following the directions. I bet it will blow away what your doing. :mad0233: follow the directions then try tweeking one thing at a time. Only way to know if your changes are having a positive or negative results is to develop a base line. Otherwise your just pissin in the wind..

geoduck · Jul 16, 2011

Jalisco Kid said:
feedlot 18 bucks 5 gal for molasses , dextrose and maltose are cheap. Why pay so much for someone to bottle it for you. JK

JK is almost always right, unless he's talking about his heirloom strains;

Disco Duck said:
Good to see you use Floralicious Grow and Bloom, those are the only GH bottles I still have left so I will keep using those. What are they, what do they do?

...

The two issues I have are this taste both grows have had, that I assumed was the "Pineapple" flavoring of FloraNectar (GH's sweetener) and slimy brown roots. Adding DM Zone to the mix half-way through the last grow gave me healthy roots above the waterline, and the same slimy black mush for roots hanging in the water.

...

So what I am trying to achieve is a mix that will be "clean" like Kool Aid, give the plants everything they want, and have healthy roots.

to achieve a mix clean like kool aid, get rid of Floralicious Grow & Bloom. those are concentrated organic mix that stinks like donkeydang. use aquaguard or hygrozym to get healthy roots.
i'm using floranectar right now, all sweeteners add a bland, earthy taste when smoked. you can use dry, organic sucanat to replace your sweetner, it's much cheaper and dissolves great in nute solution

freegrow · Jul 16, 2011

Disco Duck said:
So if I were to use...

GH 3-Part
Floralicious Grow & Bloom
Bot Silica Blast
Bot CalMag+
AN Hammerhead
MOAB
DM Zone
H202

Would that be good mix? Am I missing anything important or would this do it? This sure would be cheaper and easier than what I have been using

they are organic fish emulsion they are very dirty not good for dwc and koolaid looking nutes they work better in soil or coco if i were you I would stop using them in dwc that may be your root color did you look at the lucas formulado that for one run get your strain and room dialed in then move to additives slow one or two at a time (but you seem to heve enough exp for the MOAB just use 8ml mirco and 16 ml bloom and 5ml silica per gallon in early bloom use luquid koolbloom and then MOAB
thats all for whole grow (I know Iknow but do it and watch ;)

this 8ml micro 16ml bloom 5ml silica will take you through the whole plansts life 200-300ppm for clones and young plants 600-1000ppm for veg and bloom this will give you very good yealds baring any atmospheric problems

smokestack23 · Jul 17, 2011

OK...just to add to the confusion..
KISS!!

You shouldnt need to run H2O2 if you're running Zone.
As has been said...use the GH base nutes..try the Lucas formula. Very simple and cost effective. Use the Silica and if you're using RO water add the calmag.

Use the MOAB as directed. Once in week one and once in week 6 (8 week strain). Continue with the Hammerhead as directed on the bottle.

That's IT.

Keep the light out of your res and the water cool. Keep the water aerated.

You're on the right track when you say you want nice clear solution. Avoid anything that has organic matter in it..or sugars or "carbs"..
Keep your solution sterile.
Good luck.

P.S. Flush it well if you want it to taste like killer weed. If you want it to taste like candies, put some candies in your mouth when you smoke lol.
PEACE

freegrow · Jul 17, 2011

smokestack23 said:
P.S. Flush it well if you want it to taste like killer weed. If you want it to taste like candies, put some candies in your mouth when you smoke lol.
PEACE

tee hee LOL

yes that light in the res can hurt you too :nod

thanks smoke thats not confusion that cleared it up

+rep

Disco Duck · Jul 17, 2011

Ok, this all sounds a lot better than what I have been doing. I'll be pouring like half the number of things into the res and they are all "clean". So the updated list below are the only things I will be putting in the res, someone let me know if I am missing something important.

Base Nutes
Bot Silica Blast
Bot CalMag+
AN Hammerhead
MOAB
DM Zone

If this looks good, my only question left is about the base nutes. My res is very small, 10-15 gallons. 15 gal early, 10 later... 10 for most of the plant's life (you actually want as little water in the res as possible with a Rainforest once the roots have developed). So the cost of nutes is not a big deal too me, because I don't use a lot. Especially now that I will be using half the number of products in there. So the cost effeciency of the Lucas Formula isn't a big deal too me.

Should I really use GH and Lucas Formula, or should I use H&G or Canna for base nutes? And does "AquaFlakes" actually have little flakes in it? If so I would think of that as "dirty" and wouldn't want to use it.

freegrow · Jul 17, 2011

well

if you have been using GH the Lucas formula is somethig you know

mainly watch the girls if a N deff shows up add alittle more micro

M deff epsom salt
keep ph 5.8

with this you know what color the roots should be
and then when the roots turn brown and only then
hit em with some H202

just read your nutes make sure you know what your getting
and hell yes when you get this down try everything you want
and keep note of the results but read and make sure your plants
and your style of grow can use it:cool0041:

Disco Duck · Jul 18, 2011

Ok, I've had time to go back and look through everything again. I literally spent a few more hours reviewing nutrients and addatives again because I want to have a really solid nute solution this time. I think I only have two more questions, I am buying this stuff in a few days to start my 4th grow.

So far I have settled on...

H&G AquaFlakes A+B
H&G DripClean
Bot CalMag+
Bot Silica Blast
AN Hammerhead
MOAB
DM Zone (add H202 is root problem starts to happen again)

After looking over everything again I am wondering if I should add these two into the mix, or leave it as is with as few things as possible in there. Should I add...

Superthrive
Humbolt Humic (Humic Acids)

...or am I set with just what is on the first list already. I am confident that either way this is going to work a lot better than just using GH's lineup, I just want the plants getting everything they want, or at least close too it.

geoduck · Jul 18, 2011

i advise against using organics in recirc dwc
sludge is a huge headache, and yield-wise, organics does not compare to
using just chelated fertilizers.

dwc gives the most accurate pH/ppm readings so you could deduce the bio availability and absorption of fertilizers. using organics really mess that up. it defeats the purpose of water culture

Disco Duck · Jul 18, 2011

geoduck said:
i advise against using organics in recirc dwc
sludge is a huge headache, and yield-wise, organics does not compare to
using just chelated fertilizers.

dwc gives the most accurate pH/ppm readings so you could deduce the bio availability and absorption of fertilizers. using organics really mess that up. it defeats the purpose of water culture

Right, I don't want the sludge, I've had that before and it's not good. What on my list is organic? The Humic Acid? That's one of the reasons I was asking.

geoduck · Jul 18, 2011

sweeteners are more than sugars, it has many other micronutrients

sugars are simple and complex molecules made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. they are broken down by microbe and enzymes, into molecules the plant could readily uptake to increase brix level

sky high: what fulvic acid and other humic acids, in your opinion represents the best value?

disco duck: read my first post; use zone and hygrozym, with such a combo you could recirculate for a long time before flushing

freegrow · Jul 18, 2011

geoduck said:
sweeteners are more than sugars, it has many other micronutrients

sugars are simple and complex molecules made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. they are broken down by microbe and enzymes, into molecules the plant could readily uptake to increase brix level

sky high: what fulvic acid and other humic acids, in your opinion represents the best value?

disco duck: read my first post; use zone and hygrozym, with such a combo you could recirculate for a long time before flushing

no microbes in dwc well not many(not enough to feed)

Disco Duck · Jul 18, 2011

DM Zone is part of my new mix, but Hydrogzyme is REALLY bad in RDWC. I have a bottle, tried the Zone/Hygro rout early last grow and made things much worse. I have an almost full bottle of Hygro if you want it:-)

So which of the two things I listed are organic? Humic Acid? Superthrive? Both? And should I use those, or anything else, or is it looking good as it is?

ph7farms · Jul 18, 2011

you could build your own soil and not worry about anything but adding sweetners and carbs. I don't know if your an organic farmer or cash cropper but I assume your concerned about flavor and to that point organic soil recipes best any other method hands down, not to mention its a lot less headache. Not hating on any method but i enjoy the flavor of medical cannabis and after runnning both areoponics and dwc I've found soil just brings the flavor.

geoduck · Jul 18, 2011

humic acid is for soil and soilless grows, its' organic but not in true sense; for hydro you want fulvic acid (which is a type of humic acid)

superthrive is pos. applied in low concentrations, leaf still turn dark green and warps.
i use liquid karma in place of superthrive. lk makes everything thrive like a newborn of my pedigree

mrbong73 · Jul 18, 2011

The BioAg humic and fulvic acid products are top notch and can be used in hydro systems.
Here is some good info from their site on humic acids.

Disco Duck · Jul 19, 2011

Ok, looking into it all of these things are organic and add sugars, both things I want to avoid. So I don't want to add either of those too the mix.

I like it. I tried to find what might be missing, and neither wound up being something I want in there. I'm going with the short list and see how it works out.

egon420 · Jul 19, 2011

Hey Im having the same problem and have alot of good expertgrowers at my call, so I asked them I have used Raw sweet for two weeks but that stuff is expensive so I im switching to molasses, its alot cheeper and does the same thing, now I would also use a high potassium, supplement such as GH Kool bloom it comes in liquid and powder use the powder after the 4th week of flower, and be careful with it but it helps alot with bud gerth and essential oils so your natural smells and taste come out, i will let you know how my trial goes, but from my reserch thats your best bet/

smokestack23 · Jul 19, 2011

Humic acid is good to ensure healthy organic medium it won't help in non organic. You're correct. Use hygrowslime and you're asking for trouble... Well unless u use it as was suggested...with the zone. The zone should wipe out the enzymes that are hygrowslime ( hydrozyme). Seems like an utter waste of $ if u ask me.

Use what u have on your list u don't need more additives yet. Once you pull a couple off then start playing. GH and Lucas formula of GH isn't the best. It works though and if you're used to it. Since u aren't too worried about cost why not use an base nutes? Or dm. You probably won't notice a huge difference as long as you use recognized base nutes. Of they're made of top notch ingredients you can mix them to provide just about whatever npk ratio u want. Well as long as it's a 3 part. Not saying 3 part is best just sayingyou have a lot of flexibility with 3 part. I change ratios every week.

So..just chill dude. You have more than enough stuff to grow a ton of the best weed u ever smoked. Remember KISS. You're doing just fine with what you have. Oh and superthrive? Probably won't hurt. I don't use it though.
PEACE

Help With Sweeteners

Help With Sweeteners

Disco Duck

nangonug

Premium Member

geoduck

freegrow

Premium Member

smokestack23

freegrow

Premium Member

Disco Duck

freegrow

Premium Member

Disco Duck

geoduck

Disco Duck

geoduck

freegrow

Premium Member

Disco Duck

ph7farms

geoduck

mrbong73

Disco Duck

egon420

smokestack23

Help With Sweeteners

Help With Sweeteners

Disco Duck

nangonug

Premium Member

geoduck

freegrow

Premium Member

smokestack23

freegrow

Premium Member

Disco Duck

freegrow

Premium Member

Disco Duck

geoduck

Disco Duck

geoduck

freegrow

Premium Member

Disco Duck

ph7farms

geoduck

mrbong73

Disco Duck

egon420

smokestack23

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