I Need a Survival Diagnosis

NDfarmboy · Dec 6, 2023

Is there a doctor in the house? I sending a photo of an upper leaves now typical occurring over last 10 days or so. Plants are nine weeks old and in grow room last six weeks. Need them healthy for about another three to four weeks. But, I'm discouraged over the symptoms now showing up in leaves on the upper part of the plant. I fertilize every other watering and add CaMg every third watering. Been doing this for many years but I've run into this over last two or three grows. I've got 400w HPS lights but plants are somewhat congested. Hoping these pics will uncover the issue. I'm 75 years old so maybe I'm just forgetting some important discipline? LOL!

GNick55 · Dec 6, 2023

looks like incorrect feeding than because of that, some light stress..

BryanOconner · Dec 6, 2023

Its not light stress. I know hps lights . I used to have hundreds of 1000 watt bulbs burning .
Heat or light stress from hps will look burn dried up . usually twisted leaves . Crispy .
Sorry to tell you idk on this diag Usually always issues from the bottom. . You said only the top of the plant . Only on one plant or both ? I would use calmag every watering on the plant that has the issue . Sometimes the soil is not the best. Even though you might be using the same soil it does not have the stored nutrietns your used to .
If only one plant could be an uptake issue for nutrients . But that blackish usually fungi .Its not fungi or mold or bugs .
No matter they will survive and you will be able to harvest i have seen much worse. Let me know just the taller one ?
That pot is smaller as well. Do you always grow this big with those smaller pots ? 3 gallon pot suggested for 3 foot tall plant max. So on.
Im thinking something with the pot or soil . ROOTS . Just calmag it harder see if it resolves .

Imzzaudae · Dec 7, 2023

BryanOconner said:
Its not light stress. I know hps lights . I used to have hundreds of 1000 watt bulbs burning .
Heat or light stress from hps will look burn dried up . usually twisted leaves . Crispy .
Sorry to tell you idk on this diag Usually always issues from the bottom. . You said only the top of the plant . Only on one plant or both ? I would use calmag every watering on the plant that has the issue . Sometimes the soil is not the best. Even though you might be using the same soil it does not have the stored nutrietns your used to .
If only one plant could be an uptake issue for nutrients . But that blackish usually fungi .Its not fungi or mold or bugs .
No matter they will survive and you will be able to harvest i have seen much worse. Let me know just the taller one ?
That pot is smaller as well. Do you always grow this big with those smaller pots ? 3 gallon pot suggested for 3 foot tall plant max. So on.
Im thinking something with the pot or soil . ROOTS . Just calmag it harder see if it resolves .

Well said I agree 100%

NDfarmboy · Dec 7, 2023

That's valuable information. My instincts (if not my experience) lead me believe this was a nutrient issue. I use a good Ocean Forest soil so never sure when to start fertilizing. Don't want to overdo. I usually start supplementing about 3-4 weeks into vegetative. 'll begin giving more CaMg each watering. What about manganese?I One of the leaves I looked at on line looked very much like my issue. BTW I topped both plants above sixth node. Usually makes for at least four nice colas. Also, you were kinda reading my mind on the pot size. Think I need to upgrade to 5 gal next grow. Hopefully these girls can last to harvest. What brand fertilizer do you suggest? I studied it on line yesterday and I think I'm going to switch to General Hydroponics "Flora Nova" Grow 7-4-10 and Bloom 4-8-7. I watch pretty closely. Always between 6.2 and 6.8. Good to discuss this.

NDfarmboy · Dec 7, 2023

BTW, been using fabric pots last 3-4 years. What do you think about that relative to watering/fertilizing. They take more attention but supposed to help roots by air pruning? I dunno.

GNick55 · Dec 7, 2023

BryanOconner said:
Its not light stress. I know hps lights . I used to have hundreds of 1000 watt bulbs burning .
Heat or light stress from hps will look burn dried up . usually twisted leaves . Crispy .
Sorry to tell you idk on this diag Usually always issues from the bottom. . You said only the top of the plant . Only on one plant or both ? I would use calmag every watering on the plant that has the issue . Sometimes the soil is not the best. Even though you might be using the same soil it does not have the stored nutrietns your used to .
If only one plant could be an uptake issue for nutrients . But that blackish usually fungi .Its not fungi or mold or bugs .
No matter they will survive and you will be able to harvest i have seen much worse. Let me know just the taller one ?
That pot is smaller as well. Do you always grow this big with those smaller pots ? 3 gallon pot suggested for 3 foot tall plant max. So on.
Im thinking something with the pot or soil . ROOTS . Just calmag it harder see if it resolves .

there is light stress
look closer and see the leaf edge curl?..
better for this grower to post more and better pictures of plant in natural light with one looking down from above..

BryanOconner · Dec 7, 2023

NDfarmboy said:
BTW, been using fabric pots last 3-4 years. What do you think about that relative to watering/fertilizing. They take more attention but supposed to help roots by air pruning? I dunno.

Pots are pots . Plastic to fabric . I have used them all. Fabric do not help roots. As long as the plastic bags or pots have drainage it all grows the same . In a different chat site we h ad this debate to debunk fabric pots making a difference . We had to dump the roots out after harvest and post pics

Charlie946 · Dec 7, 2023

What's the ec and ph going in vs coming out? An issue on newer growth is usually from an inavailablity of something from ph imbalance.

Otto Bonn · Dec 7, 2023

BryanOconner said:
Pots are pots . Plastic to fabric . I have used them all. Fabric do not help roots. As long as the plastic bags or pots have drainage it all grows the same . In a different chat site we h ad this debate to debunk fabric pots making a difference . We had to dump the roots out after harvest and post pics

I'm with you Bryan, I'm on the fence on fab pots. My two issues are the fact that watering is messy, even with slow slow watering you still have water coming out the sides. The other is that up-potting from fabric can be a pain when the roots grab onto the bottom of the pot, I wrested 2 3G pots the other day and really had to tear the pot loose.

GNick55 · Dec 7, 2023

Otto Bonn said:
I'm with you Bryan, I'm on the fence on fab pots. My two issues are the fact that watering is messy, even with slow slow watering you still have water coming out the sides. The other is that up-potting from fabric can be a pain when the roots grab onto the bottom of the pot, I wrested 2 3G pots the other day and really had to tear the pot loose.

use plastic pots for up potting than last transplant into a bag if preferred.. watering i barely if ever have any coming out the sides.. makesure plants are on level surface, the older the bag becomes the harder it is to water without some running out..
and debunking fabric bags?. hahaha what’s next 48 hours darkness

Otto Bonn · Dec 7, 2023

GNick55 said:
use plastic pots for up potting than last transplant into a bag if preferred.. watering i barely if ever have any coming out the sides.. makesure plants are on level surface, the older the bag becomes the harder it is to water without some running out..
and debunking fabric bags?. hahaha what’s next 48 hours darkness

I soaked all my bags in a big tub this summer to get them clean and agree that being clean does help with run off.

cannafarmer420 · Dec 7, 2023

BryanOconner said:
Pots are pots . Plastic to fabric . I have used them all. Fabric do not help roots. As long as the plastic bags or pots have drainage it all grows the same . In a different chat site we h ad this debate to debunk fabric pots making a difference . We had to dump the roots out after harvest and post pics

I have to say you are incorrect, that is all ✌

GNick55 · Dec 7, 2023

@NDfarmboy
sorry for getting off track..
just post some better pictures for us to see,

cannafarmer420 · Dec 7, 2023

GNick55 said:
@NDfarmboy
sorry for getting off track..
just post some better pictures for us to see,

Well back to work, Gnick knows his shit. You are in good hands

storz · Dec 7, 2023

NDfarmboy said:
Is there a doctor in the house? I sending a photo of an upper leaves now typical occurring over last 10 days or so. Plants are nine weeks old and in grow room last six weeks. Need them healthy for about another three to four weeks. But, I'm discouraged over the symptoms now showing up in leaves on the upper part of the plant. I fertilize every other watering and add CaMg every third watering. Been doing this for many years but I've run into this over last two or three grows. I've got 400w HPS lights but plants are somewhat congested. Hoping these pics will uncover the issue. I'm 75 years old so maybe I'm just forgetting some important discipline? LOL!

first I would love a materials list and blueprint so I can build a cabinet like yours. Nice!

I think you have a ventilation/heat problem with the set up you have. That 4 inch fan is not big enough to circulate the air in the cabinet. I would like to know what the temps get to in the cabinet.

Also, I strongly recommend you get a PH meter and chk your water/nutrient solutions for proper PH.

I think those 2 suggestions will get you where you want to be next grow.

To summarize: Temp and PH are my concerns here.

I am gonna throw my 2 centavos in the fabric pot debate......Just my opinion....Fabric pots are overrated. 5 gal buckets are everywhere--even side of the road or plastic pots are often free at nursery centers so why pay for fabric pots? Plastic is free or cheaper, easily reused, keep their shape throughout the grow, easier to up pot, and easier to water.

GNick55 · Dec 7, 2023

storz said:
first I would love a materials list and blueprint so I can build a cabinet like yours. Nice!

I think you have a ventilation/heat problem with the set up you have. That 4 inch fan is not big enough to circulate the air in the cabinet. I would like to know what the temps get to in the cabinet.

Also, I strongly recommend you get a PH meter and chk your water/nutrient solutions for proper PH.

I think those 2 suggestions will get you where you want to be next grow.

To summarize: Temp and PH are my concerns here.

I am gonna throw my 2 centavos in the fabric pot debate......Just my opinion....Fabric pots are overrated. 5 gal buckets are everywhere--even side of the road or plastic pots are often free at nursery centers so why pay for fabric pots? Plastic is free or cheaper, easily reused, keep their shape throughout the grow, easier to up pot, and easier to water.

unless it’s food grade plastic than toxins are leaching into the medium over time, but than again many fertilizers have heavy metals..
mine hold shape perfectly, i’m just past 8 weeks flowering and bags have held perfect shape whole time, just have to learn how to use them..

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storz · Dec 7, 2023

GNick55 said:
unless it’s food grade plastic than toxins are leaching into the medium over time, but than again many fertilizers have heavy metals..
mine hold shape perfectly, i’m just past 8 weeks flowering and bags have held perfect shape whole time, just have to learn how to use them..
View attachment 2084099

the golf balls are a nice touch.
Many assume that fabric pots are toxin free. Often they have polypropylene in the material or other plastics much less dyes and other stuff manufactured into them. I am glad they work for you. They worked for me for many years also. While the learning curve on fabric pots is not steep, they can, not often, have positional problems with use that plastic will never have.

NDfarmboy · Dec 8, 2023

So, to some of your thoughts. I do use a ph meter and check with each watering. It's not real sophisticated (Vivosun - about $18). I keep ph between 6.2 and 6.8. Should be good. I don't re-calibrate real often - a pain. But it seems very consistent in gauging our city water so I assume generally accurate. I don't measure any runoff ph. My runoff goes into aluminum trays so kind of hard to re-cover and test. The little fan in my photo is just to supplement. I have another larger Honeywell fan near mid point of grow room and can point in different directions if need be. Temperature is 75-80F. I also have a little dehumidifier in the room. Takes in a pint every couple of weeks. I will try to get some "daylight" pics. Problem is I live in a state where cannabis is illegal (I know - pretty neanderthal!) So any natural light for photo would have to come from my larger room during 12-hour off periods. I'll see what I can do.
The other problem is that I can't do more than a couple of plants at once. And, I'm enough of a "real" farmer to know plant robustness can vary quite a lot with the same varieties. But, I have to take my chances on the seeds that I sprout.
Regarding the physical grow room, I don't have plans other than what's in my head. Basically, it is a skeletal structure made of 2 X 2s including the doors. It is tied together with a white, washable 1/8" thick USDA certified FRP sheets turned to the inside. Used a couple of nail guns and screw gun to secure. I think you can get at most You can get at lots of stores plus on line. Hole for exhaust duct. Hand the light from center located 2 X 2 and "botta bing"!

NDfarmboy · Dec 13, 2023

So here's a couple more pics that I took with flash during 12 hour off period to show the problem. I wonder if I push my plants too hard to keep them a little smaller (3 1/2 to 51/2 feet to fit under light. 1) Sprout & Veg - 3 weeks; 2) top & veg another week (top above 6th node); This is under 400w MH for 24 hours; 3) move to Veg room and change lighting to 400w HPS for 12/12 lighting. First fertilization @ 3 1/2 weeks of veg - a few days before I move to flower then every other watering . As these pics are taken, I'm about 10 1/2 weeks in and would think I need to harvest in 1 1/2 - 3 weeks. Light is always 12" to 18" above top cola. Trichomes currently showing heads are crystalline which is good I guess. I just think plants are losing flowering energy due to leaf issues. What do you think?

I Need a Survival Diagnosis

I Need a Survival Diagnosis

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I Need a Survival Diagnosis

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