I need professional help

SpartanBud · May 11, 2020

I into my 4th grow and I'm having problems that I can not figure out by myself.
This grow is in a tent using both 315cmh and a cheap amazon 165w LED grow light.LED grow lights.
1. I started 4 seeds in water for 24hrs then to a paper towel until the taproot was well out. From there I planted them into very small containers and eventually into 5 and 7 gallon fabric pots. Growth has been steady but slow and my smallest plant looked very healthy. Soon that plants leaves started to yellow just a touch followed by what looked to me as nitrogen claw. Next the plant started to wilt like over or under watering and has been dormant for a week. I can see roots coming through the bottom of the pot and after I lifted it I could see many healthy roots poking through. ( I have never had this before with over 25 plants. ) The plant looks worse in person than in this pic. This plant is growing in coco purchased from Walmart. The other 3 plants with it look good, however they are twice it's size and one of them also has it's roots coming through the pot. I have flushed this sick plant once and after a week has still not recovered.
2. I have had many seedlings pop up and stop growing and soon fall over during this round of planting. I have never had issues like this before. Some don't grow enough to pop it's shell off. I tried different growing mediums ( coco, peat potting mix, potting soil ) all with the same results. I even recalibrated my ph pen. The ph is close but may be slightly off. I have used both city water (city uses chloromine instead of chlorine and water from my dehumidifier, the same as I have used in the past. I am careful not to over water but I keep them moist. I have had great success in the past and I am not doing anything different.
3. Humidity varies from 60%-85% and temp is 70 at night to 80 during the day.
4. Lights are on a 19/5 schedule.

On another note, the seeds I am using are a year old and were given to me, so I am not sure how old they really are, however, I did get some auto seeds and I am having the same problems.
I have been reading for days trying to figure this out and I am getting nowhere.
Thanks in advance.

Dirtbag · May 11, 2020

You need to elevate the fabric pots to allow some airflow under them.

You also need to fertigate until you get a bit of runoff, each time you water. And the runoff needs to be removed somehow, the pot cant sit in it.

5 and 7 gal is Far too big of a pot for coco. I veg for a month and flower all in 1 gallon fabric pots. multi fed several times a day. I think the biggest pot I'd ever use for coco is 3 gal fabric. But the smaller and more often you can water it the better.

And sounds like you've got nutrients building up. You need to monitor input ppm, as well as runoff ppm. If runoff comes out high, you need to lower the input numbers.

I'm sure there is more.

do you have any more details? Ppm? ph? how often you feed and do you ever get runoff?

SpartanBud · May 11, 2020

I have had success in the past using these bags but I would try the smaller 1 gal pots you mentioned.
I am almost certain I don't have nutes buildup because I haven't given them much at all. I start them out in a 2oz plastic starter cups then to a quart size container then to a 1 or 2 gal container and finally to a fabric pot. Normally start with potting soil or potting mix and usually no nutes until the plant is in the 1-2 gal container, and even then only 1-2 ml with a quart of H2O. After I move them to the fabric pots I have given them 1/4-1/2 Dynagro Grow nutes (1-2ml per liter) and only give a quart to half gallon of water when they are light and drooping.
No PPM's yet
PH of the water going in is 5.8 ish. No reading for water out
Nutes are Dynagro grow (7-9-5), Terpinator, B52 Advanced Nutrients. All in Half or less and not every watering.

Here is my fact sheet on this plant
Chernobyl #4
Plant up 4-9-20
Given PH'ed tap water at 6.5
Repotted 4-16-20 to a quart container
Seemed a little stunted compared to the others (2-GG4, 2 Casey Jones, another Chernobyl)
Repotted 4-22-20 to 1-2 gal container with potting mix (Suremix with peat, perlite, lime, greencare wetting agent)
Same water as above still no nutes.
Repotted 4-28-20 7gal fabric pot. Gave 1/2 gal H2O with 2ml Dynagro and 2ml Terpinator
4-30-20 H2O 1/2 gal with 2ml Dynagro, Terpinator, B52.
5-5-20 Leafs are not dark green and getting yellow. 2 Liter H20, 7ml Dynagro, 2ml Terpinator (Dynagro recommends 1 tsp/gal 5ml)
5-8-20 Flushed with 5gal tap water ph8 and finished with 2gal ph5.8 with 2ml Dynagro, Terpinator
nothing since then and plant is only getting worse.
I also lost 1 other Chernobyl and a Casey Jones. Both started to wilt and I could not get them to recover.
New to this grow is the Dynagro and Terpinator. Past grows I have used Advanced Nutes (Sensi Grow), and my first grow I used Miracle Grow.

Nate_in_AK · May 11, 2020

I'm no expert, still a newbie... but I wonder if you are not giving them ENOUGH water? Cupping on upper leaves + wilting/drooping on lower leaves doesn't seem common. Other posts with over-watering problems generally seem to show the entire plant to be wilted/drooping.

I hope you get her figured out before she throws in the towel.

Welcome to the farm!

Beachwalker · May 11, 2020

I'm not a Coco grower but I can tell you that you're not watering right; you have to water Coco at least once a day and you want the whole medium wet. you're also in too big of a pot like Dirtbag said above, good luck

One drop · May 11, 2020

With coco you must water till 10 to 20 % run off .

Dirtbag · May 11, 2020

Also, you should feed coco everytime you water. Your plants could just be stressed and hungry.

SpartanBud · May 11, 2020

Dirtbag said:
Also, you should feed coco everytime you water. Your plants could just be stressed and hungry.

Thanks and I appreciate all advise. The last time I watered this plant was 3 1/2 days ago and the pot is still heavy. I don't think the plant is taking up water too fast even though I see roots coming through the bottom of the pot. In the past I have used this same coco and I got in the habit of watering only when the pots are light and the plant just starts to droop. I think there is something else going on here. When the plants are larger I always give enough water to get a little to run out the bottom. I will catch this run off and test the ph and ppm.

cemchris · May 11, 2020

Once you move to coco throw everything on how you fed and watered soil out the window. Just from the pic I can tell you aren't watering them enough and waiting for them to dry like soil.

You want them to look like this

SpartanBud · May 12, 2020

I see, and your plants roots are coming through too. Do you see this often? I wonder why I haven't seen this with my other plants. Do you always add perlite to coco?

SpartanBud · May 12, 2020

Dirtbag said:
You need to elevate the fabric pots to allow some airflow under them.

You also need to fertigate until you get a bit of runoff, each time you water. And the runoff needs to be removed somehow, the pot cant sit in it.

5 and 7 gal is Far too big of a pot for coco. I veg for a month and flower all in 1 gallon fabric pots. multi fed several times a day. I think the biggest pot I'd ever use for coco is 3 gal fabric. But the smaller and more often you can water it the better.

And sounds like you've got nutrients building up. You need to monitor input ppm, as well as runoff ppm. If runoff comes out high, you need to lower the input numbers.

I'm sure there is more.

do you have any more details? Ppm? ph? how often you feed and do you ever get runoff?

After a heavy watering this morning with light nutes (2ml dynagro, 2ml terpinator, 2ml B52), the runoff was 5.4ph and 785ppm

Jimster · May 12, 2020

SpartanBud said:
After a heavy watering this morning with light nutes (2ml dynagro, 2ml terpinator, 2ml B52), the runoff was 5.4ph and 785ppm

In my opinion, and my opinion only, I think you are seeing the buildup of nutes and salts, as one sign of too much alt is the perpetual thirsty look. Of course, if you aren't watering it enough, that could also come into play since that can also concentrate salts. I use Promix which is in some ways similar to Coco, but I only feed every few weeks unless things are starting to lag a little. Feeding is fine but unless you are growing a sizable plant, they actually need very little nutrition. 5.4 is way too low of a Ph for my comfort... I shoot for 6.5 to 7, but that is what works best for me and might not for another system. FWIW, I use Jack's 20-20-20 during vegging (1 tablespoon/gallon every 12-15 days if needed, and the bloom formula during flowering. It's kind of like the 600 lb weight loss shows... the folks don't realize thy are eating a gazillion calories and think they will die if they follow a normal diet. Plants are similar in that they don't need tons of nutes. We might think they do, but the amount they need is pretty small. Consider a farmer... they don't usually feed their crops every few days and they still manage to have a good crop of whatever they grow.

cemchris · May 12, 2020

SpartanBud said:
I see, and your plants roots are coming through too. Do you see this often? I wonder why I haven't seen this with my other plants. Do you always add perlite to coco?

These are moms in veg that are getting watered 3 times a day @ about 1 month old. Yeah roots go a little ham once they go into flower. Cover the outside completely. That is Royal Gold Tupur coco. Lots of perlite and made for drip and DTW. I would never run pure coco anymore. Tupur is nice since its always in stock in large quantity and it's good to go right out of the bag with a ton of perlite and fairly cheap.

I need professional help

I need professional help

SpartanBud

Dirtbag

SpartanBud

Nate_in_AK

Beachwalker

One drop

Bush Doctor

Dirtbag

SpartanBud

cemchris

SpartanBud

SpartanBud

Jimster

cemchris

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