Is Manganese toxicity a thing? Symptoms?

Boshweiser · Jul 9, 2023

First time grower. I planted 4 seedlings of Bruce Banner autos in FFOF mixed with 30% perlite. I realize this is hot, but I have since read of many growers who did this without feeding until week 4 or 5, when the nutes get depleted.

I used PHd well water every day. 32oz in a 5 gallon pot (though the smaller, lagging plants received less until the past 3 weeks due to fear of overwatering. I realize now that I was probably underwatering in terms of amount, overwatering in terms of daily waters.

Equally concerned about quality of well water. Very hard water at 207, also elevated Manganese (report attached). I have a water softener which I believe wasnt working for thr first month or so, with salt being added to the softener afterwards. So now it may be softening the water, but leaving traces of salt? EC readout of well water from tap is .21.

This all seems bad, so I flushed with distilled and purified water yesterday and will avoid well water. Runoff was 6.5ph, 2-3EC depending on each of the 4 plants.

Any symptoms for high manganese? Is the hard-to-soft water an issue? My two “older” girls (by a week or so from germ date) started getting red leaves which progressed to brown. Super red Petioles, have been for a long time.

Previously this was attributed to nute burn in a hot medium. I had given some Tiger Bloom about a week prior to symptoms. Approx 3/4 of a tspn, in 32oz. of water in each plant. I think this amount would be alright, but not enough water. I was worried and added another 32 oz of phd water to each 4 hours later.

But want to reiterate that other FFOF growers have claimed to be nute-depleted by week 4-5 (I’m on 7th) and I had EC 2.0-3.0 but low nute readings. Like zilch. And .21 EC rating for the water I was using all along.

Anyway, thoughts? Photos show progression of issue. Darker green in first image is another, unaffected plant. Or just starting to get affected, so a little behind. On the top image you see the other two plants. Bottom, mangled, dark blue one has seperate issues. But top looks a healthier green than my big browning girls. Only starting to exhibit symptoms, a few leaves going red.

Paleosoul · Jul 9, 2023

What's your soil pH?

This looks nothing like Mn toxicity. Whatever the problem is, Mn is not it.

ArtfulCodger · Jul 9, 2023

The main issue I see, based on the texture and thickness of leaves, the stunting and miniaturization of the plants, and the plant shape, is chronic over-watering. You have a variety of plant sizes, but my guess is that if I had your smallest plant in a pot that big, I *might* water it every two weeks. It might be less frequent than that. In soil, I water to runoff, only when the pots are very light. That requires between a quarter and a third of the media volume each watering.

Over-watering drowns the root hairs, which in turn messes up the plants' ability to take up nutrients. There's almost no point in trying to supplement a perceived leaf symptom when your roots aren't working. If these were photos, you could nurse them back with proper watering, and then flip to flower once they're healthy. With autos, they're going to be what they're going to be. Once an auto seed germinates, the fuse is lit and any problems hurt your results.

Boshweiser · Jul 9, 2023

Paleosoul said:
What's your soil pH?

This looks nothing like Mn toxicity. Whatever the problem is, Mn is not it.

Runoff is 6.5

Boshweiser · Jul 9, 2023

ArtfulCodger said:
The main issue I see, based on the texture and thickness of leaves, the stunting and miniaturization of the plants, and the plant shape, is chronic over-watering. You have a variety of plant sizes, but my guess is that if I had your smallest plant in a pot that big, I *might* water it every two weeks. It might be less frequent than that. In soil, I water to runoff, only when the pots are very light. That requires between a quarter and a third of the media volume each watering.

Over-watering drowns the root hairs, which in turn messes up the plants' ability to take up nutrients. There's almost no point in trying to supplement a perceived leaf symptom when your roots aren't working. If these were photos, you could nurse them back with proper watering, and then flip to flower once they're healthy. With autos, they're going to be what they're going to be. Once an auto seed germinates, the fuse is lit and any problems hurt your results.

Sounds like there’s nothing I can do. Still smokable? She’s about 8 weeks from sprout. Supposedly strain is ready for harvest weeks 10 or 11. Not sure she’ll make it that long. Already lots of tricomes, resinous too. Not seeing any amber tricomes

ArtfulCodger · Jul 9, 2023

Boshweiser said:
Sounds like there’s nothing I can do. Still smokable? She’s about 8 weeks from sprout. Supposedly strain is ready for harvest weeks 10 or 11. Not sure she’ll make it that long. Already lots of tricomes, resinous too. Not seeing any amber tricomes

Absolutely...smoke whatever yield you get. You'll probably see amber on the sugar leaves before you see any on the buds. Wait for at least 5% on the buds. I don't run autos a lot, but one tactic I've used with FF soils when I've planted autos into the final pots is to fill the bottom half of the pots with Ocean Forest, and top off with Happy Frog. That way the young plants are in a less amended media to start.

Boshweiser · Jul 9, 2023

Thanks. And not sure if this will happen, but if all the leaves go brown or die, to I chop regardless of amber?

Didn’t realize you could transplant autos. Read that it was stressful so I planted seeds directly in 5 gallon fabric pots.

ArtfulCodger · Jul 9, 2023

Boshweiser said:
Thanks. And not sure if this will happen, but if all the leaves go brown or die, to I chop regardless of amber?

Didn’t realize you could transplant autos. Read that it was stressful so I planted seeds directly in 5 gallon fabric pots.

You can transplant autos, but that's not what I meant. I'm saying if you plant your auto seeds into the final pots, put OF on the bottom and HF on the top.

Is Manganese toxicity a thing? Symptoms?

Is Manganese toxicity a thing? Symptoms?

Boshweiser

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