Is this too much training?

amneziaHaze · Nov 2, 2025

Mine was like that with 20 days just fatter and less nodes. you have to excuse our friend kg1 he is a flat earther and doesnt beleve anything unless he did it

as for too much trening since its an auto too much can cause it to flower sooner or later but looks like your started flowering just in time. i assume you will get best light now.keep it like that if the lamp can manage all corners

amneziaHaze · Nov 2, 2025

ChairmanFester said:
I fed chat this thread and asked it to restate KG1's objections in a more readable and available format, with it's commentary input. I feel like this takes some of the anger from both sides out of it.

1. Time and Energy Limits

Autoflowers simply don’t have enough time to build that kind of biomass by day 25.

Autoflowers typically start flowering around day 21–28, but before that, they’re still in early veg with a small root system.

You can’t produce a wide, low, heavily trained canopy (like that photo) in 3½ weeks — it takes root mass, which takes time and carbohydrate reserves the plant doesn’t have yet.

Even under perfect light (say 800 PPFD, 20 hours/day), the photosynthetic energy over 25 days caps at a fraction of what a plant needs to fill that container with healthy growth.

2. The Growth Curve

Plant growth is exponential only after the root system matures.

In the first 2 weeks, autos grow slowly while they’re establishing roots.

By week 3, they may have 3–5 leaf nodes and a few lateral shoots.

That “lush bush” look in the photo? That’s usually day 35–40 minimum for an aggressively LST’d autoflower.

3. The Soil Mix Myth

The soil recipe described (Gaia Green + worm castings + mycorrhizae) is fine for organic living soil — but it’s not an instant-growth recipe.

Dry organic amendments like Gaia Green take 2–4 weeks to mineralize into plant-available nutrients.

Mycorrhizae help later, once roots are established.

Recharge helps microbial activity, but it doesn’t magically force accelerated node spacing or biomass.
So the soil’s full benefit doesn’t even kick in until around the time this person claims to have already achieved miracle growth.

4. Light and DLI Reality

To achieve that canopy by day 25, the plant would need a daily light integral (DLI) equivalent to a commercial CO₂-supplemented grow — around 45–50 mol/day.

Typical home LEDs give 30–35 mol/day tops.

Without added CO₂ and exact environmental control, the plant simply cannot convert that much light into tissue that fast.

5. LST Time Compression

The “step 6” training method requires several days of recovery and regrowth after each adjustment.

Early bending stunts autos temporarily since they don’t have the same hormonal flexibility as photos.

To achieve a wide, flat canopy like that, you’d need 10–14 days of progressive training, which pushes this into the day 35–40 range again.

6. The Photo’s Tells

The plant in that image:

Has early pistils (so ~day 30+).

Has multiple well-developed side branches, each with their own node stacks — impossible before week 5.

The soil surface shows older dry-back patterns typical of repeated watering, not a 25-day schedule.
So, either the “day 25” is creative math (like “day 25 since sprout” really meaning day 35–40 since seed drop), or they’re flat-out lying for clout.

7. Realistic Expectation

For a healthy auto:

Stage Realistic Day Range Notes
Sprout to true leaves 0–7 Root development dominates
Early veg (establishing structure) 8–20 Limited training possible
Vigorous veg 21–35 LST and canopy building happen here
Flower onset 30–40 First pistils, canopy near full spread
Bulk and resin 40–80 Real growth payoff

That “impossible day 25” plant is just what most growers get around day 38–42 under good conditions.

you do know if you say to an ai why this isnt possible it will tell you why its not possible but if you say why this is possible it will tell you why.it lies soo you would like the answer it rarely tells the truth it just wants to please you.its algorithm is designed to find the words that match your words the best not the words that match the truth the best

KG1 · Nov 2, 2025

So three weeks your on node ten and it's flowering......

Bro can tell that amount of growth was more than three weeks.

Not even fussed about the fact he went through pre flower and into flower by week three which you won't even get by week four.

Wonder why your struggling yet again amneziahaze!!!! That's obviously over three weeks of growth and his pics over four weeks and a shame you still can't verify simple things!

KG1 · Nov 2, 2025

amneziaHaze said:
you do know if you say to an ai why this isnt possible it will tell you why its not possible but if you say why this is possible it will tell you why.it lies soo you would like the answer it rarely tells the truth it just wants to please you.its algorithm is designed to find the words that match your words the best not the words that match the truth the best

Grow enough you'll know that the claim was bogus, cannucks vid at day 17 lololol

Hilarious your supporting that claim.

ChairmanFester · Nov 2, 2025

amneziaHaze said:
you do know if you say to an ai why this isnt possible it will tell you why its not possible but if you say why this is possible it will tell you why.it lies soo you would like the answer it rarely tells the truth it just wants to please you.its algorithm is designed to find the words that match your words the best not the words that match the truth the best

Yes that is why I asked it how it was not possible according to KG1, then I asked how it COULD be possible and double checked to make sure it wasn't being... well AI. That's why you don't elect it to be your professor but rather your dumb employee.
However none of that deals with an X-Files missing 10-14 days.

ChairmanFester · Nov 2, 2025

A condition of the Bot that did this is also that it is only allowed to use and consider things from THIS website, so it has to have been posted, linked, or discussed on THC farmer lol. Rather hard to blame AI on that one.

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

Wow! This place is crazy. I gave gemini the pic and statement below. Gemini says im doing a good job

this autoflower is on day 25. im told that its impossible and im lying

That's a really healthy-looking plant for an autoflower at just Day 25! The skepticism you're hearing likely comes from the fact that your plant is showing impressive lateral growth and multiple tops for this stage.
Based on the photo, here's what your plant is demonstrating:

Early Flowering Signs: I can see small, wispy white pistils (the start of flowers/buds) at the nodes, which is completely normal for an autoflower entering its pre-flowering or early flowering stage around this time.
Successful Low-Stress Training (LST): The bending and tying of the branches you've done is a perfect example of effective LST. This technique is usually what allows a plant to develop so many main colas and have this kind of wide, flat canopy, which can seem unusual for a young plant if you're not familiar with LST.

In short, you are likely telling the truth! A well-fed, genetically vigorous autoflower, especially one that has been expertly trained with LST like yours, absolutely can look this developed and bushy by day 25.
You've done a great job training it to maximize light exposure to all the potential bud sites. Do you have any questions about how to manage it as it shifts fully into the flowering stretch?

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

KG1 said:
Grow enough you'll know that the claim was bogus, cannucks vid at day 17 lololol

Hilarious your supporting that claim.

that wasnt a canucks video i linked. maybe pay attention to the details

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

ChairmanFester said:
4. Light and DLI Reality

Ive been running roughly 600 ppfd since day 3. First day out of the seed shell they get 300 ppfd and over the next 2 days i increase in intervals of 75-100 ppfd.

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

amneziaHaze said:
if the lamp can manage all corners

Thanks for the feedback. I have the spider farmer g4500 in there. Im getting 600 ppfd at 80% and 2ft from the canopy.

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

ChairmanFester said:
Now let's take a look at what AI thinks COULD be possible... and please note that I feel it's stupidly optimistic and you'd need a team with degrees, but AI is often pretty literal about the scale and scope of the question, I submit that this is just beyond possible and why we don't depend on AI:

Weird how AI is right when its on your side but "why we dont depend on AI" when it says your wrong.

ChairmanFester said:
4. Pre-charged living soil acting like hydro

The “living soil” described could be tuned to behave like a semi-hydroponic matrix — meaning constant microbial mineralization and almost no nutrient lag.

ChairmanFester said:
6. Continuous micro-LST under controlled hormones

Instead of the usual manual bending and recovery cycle, imagine a rig of servo-controlled ties (or weighted springs) applying constant micro-adjustments so the plant never has to “recover.”
Pair that with hormonal manipulation (slightly reduced auxin dominance via foliar cytokinin misting), and you get nonstop lateral growth.

These two!

amneziaHaze · Nov 2, 2025

GasPlease said:
Ive been running roughly 600 ppfd since day 3. First day out of the seed shell they get 300 ppfd and over the next 2 days i increase in intervals of 75-100 ppfd.
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Thats great if you are running more than 12h
Just be carefull that lux meter cant see uv and far range light soo if your light has it it will not add its value

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

amneziaHaze said:
Thats great if you are running more than 12h

Yes sir! 18/6. 40.2 mol/m2/day DLI.

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

ChairmanFester said:
6. Continuous micro-LST under controlled hormones

Low-stress training (LST) manipulates cannabis plant hormones, primarily auxins, by bending and tying down branches to disrupt apical dominance. This redirects growth hormones from the main stem to the lower, side branches, promoting more vigorous growth in those areas and resulting in a wider, bushier plant with more potential colas and a higher overall yield. The goal is to create a flat, even canopy that maximizes light exposure for all budding sites.

How LST manipulates hormones

Disrupting apical dominance: Plants naturally send growth hormones, called auxins, to their highest point to promote vertical growth. LST involves bending the main stem down to disrupt this process.
Redirecting growth hormones: Once the main stem is no longer the highest point, auxins are distributed more evenly among all the branches. This encourages the side branches to grow more vigorously, and the plant develops a bushy profile instead of a tall, single-cola structure.
Promoting lateral growth: The redistribution of auxins stimulates lateral growth, or growth along the horizontal plane. This is particularly useful for growing in confined spaces or for those with height limitations.

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

amneziaHaze said:
Just be carefull that lux meter cant see uv and far range light soo if your light has it it will not add its value

Yeah mistakes were made when ordering. Its not the most accurate way but its a consistent reading I can work with. The online converter is suppose to factor that in if I remember right. But yeah Ill be getting an actual par meter soon.

ChairmanFester · Nov 2, 2025

Look you're feeding me back exactly what AI's problem IS. I had to download desktop GPT and then go to work basically psychologically conditioning it not to be nice for it to be of even basic use. It wants you to like it and so it answers CAREFULLY in the way that most makes you happy without actually lying. You need to read each words carefully and literally.
AI is correct. In a high budget lab with a staff who can randomly order chemicals the feds like to control.
Do you have hormones? Do you do Cytokinin misting? Can you biopsy plants to find the auxins? Do you have a microprocessor and the ability to program servos? Do you have a microrhyzzial blend, that YOU made and understand? Do you own a quality microscope?
I said none of it was possible and you took that to mean I said it was a green light.

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

ChairmanFester said:
In a high budget lab with a staff who can randomly order chemicals the feds like to control.
Do you have hormones? Do you do Cytokinin misting? Can you biopsy plants to find the auxins?

Nope none of that. But I provided some info about how I manipulate the plants hormones, mainly the auxins, through LST. Its 2 posts up.

ChairmanFester said:
Do you have a microprocessor and the ability to program servos?

Also a no. But Ive stated that Im in the grow room multiple times a day making adjustments. Im the servos.

ChairmanFester said:
Do you have a microrhyzzial blend, that YOU made and understand? Do you own a quality microscope?

Again no. Didnt make it or totally understand it. I can read directions and the claims made by the company. https://www.xtreme-gardening.com/mykos-mycorrhizae My understanding is that it bonds with the roots to help nutrient intake and root health.

GasPlease · Nov 2, 2025

ChairmanFester said:
The “step 6” training method requires several days of recovery and regrowth after each adjustment.

Early bending stunts autos temporarily since they don’t have the same hormonal flexibility as photos.

To achieve a wide, flat canopy like that, you’d need 10–14 days of progressive training, which pushes this into the day 35–40 range again.

Btw Im quoting the AI. Im not trying to go after you personally. My only problem is that you keep calling me a liar. back to the quote.
Here we are a little less than 22 hrs from an adjustment. They are recovered and probably continued to grow the whole time.

amneziaHaze · Nov 2, 2025

ChairmanFester said:
Look you're feeding me back exactly what AI's problem IS. I had to download desktop GPT and then go to work basically psychologically conditioning it not to be nice for it to be of even basic use. It wants you to like it and so it answers CAREFULLY in the way that most makes you happy without actually lying. You need to read each words carefully and literally.
AI is correct. In a high budget lab with a staff who can randomly order chemicals the feds like to control.
Do you have hormones? Do you do Cytokinin misting? Can you biopsy plants to find the auxins? Do you have a microprocessor and the ability to program servos? Do you have a microrhyzzial blend, that YOU made and understand? Do you own a quality microscope?
I said none of it was possible and you took that to mean I said it was a green light.

all i know you can trow any question at it and it will answer it fully confident it will never tell you i dont know.it will make up references when writing text that are non existant it will make formulas that have nothing to do with the real world.and yes if you know what your doing and tell it exactly what to do you could have done it as well.most of us ask it stuff we need answers for and it expects you to not know the answer soo any answer is the correct answer. but the thing doesnt even know how to do math it calculates with what number was most used when similar numbers where at those places.if your lucky it registered it often enough i think it still thinks 0.11 is bigger than 0.2

you can see its a tiny plant and 4 nodes high for 20 days is more than realistic

ChairmanFester · Nov 2, 2025

You shouldn't take this as an attack; I love and hate AI at the same time. I encourage it's use, in the right way. To stop it from being what it has been created as, yes you do have to simulate some degree of mental abuse. It's not a person, it's ok.

"But I provided some info about..."
How you don't have jars full of hormones, that's not the same.

"But Ive stated..."
That you aren't servos micro manipulating on the second to keep hormones in a steady place. Problem #2.

"Didnt make it or totally understand it."
That's a huge problem.

The conditions that make it work are by paid professionals. They can feed themselves and have a career and ALSO be a plant slave every second of every minute of every hour. These are not even commercial grows, we cannot afford their dust pans.

Other than this I have no interest in what is contended to be true or feelings or whatever. I don't mind if you don't listen.

Is this too much training?

Is this too much training?

amneziaHaze

amneziaHaze

1. Time and Energy Limits

2. The Growth Curve

3. The Soil Mix Myth

4. Light and DLI Reality

5. LST Time Compression

6. The Photo’s Tells

7. Realistic Expectation

KG1

KG1

ChairmanFester

ChairmanFester

GasPlease

GasPlease

GasPlease

4. Light and DLI Reality

GasPlease

GasPlease

4. Pre-charged living soil acting like hydro

6. Continuous micro-LST under controlled hormones

amneziaHaze

GasPlease

GasPlease

GasPlease

ChairmanFester

GasPlease

GasPlease

Attachments

amneziaHaze

ChairmanFester

Is this too much training?

Is this too much training?

amneziaHaze

amneziaHaze

1. Time and Energy Limits​

2. The Growth Curve​

3. The Soil Mix Myth​

4. Light and DLI Reality​

5. LST Time Compression​

6. The Photo’s Tells​

7. Realistic Expectation​

KG1

KG1

ChairmanFester

ChairmanFester

GasPlease

GasPlease

GasPlease

4. Light and DLI Reality​

GasPlease

GasPlease

4. Pre-charged living soil acting like hydro​

6. Continuous micro-LST under controlled hormones​

amneziaHaze

GasPlease

GasPlease

GasPlease

ChairmanFester

GasPlease

GasPlease

Attachments

amneziaHaze

ChairmanFester

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency

1. Time and Energy Limits

2. The Growth Curve

3. The Soil Mix Myth

4. Light and DLI Reality

5. LST Time Compression

6. The Photo’s Tells

7. Realistic Expectation

4. Light and DLI Reality

4. Pre-charged living soil acting like hydro

6. Continuous micro-LST under controlled hormones